San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland)

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Re: San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland) 

Post#81 » by BlazersBroncos » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:56 pm

I love the argument that Nurkic doesn't have much value because he is an 'outdated archetype' coming from a fan of a team whos two best players play the mid ranged game, which is literally the definition of an outdated, inefficient playing style.

Aldridge has value, but I would say that value is closer to two early 20's FRP's than a lotto pick. I may be wrong, who knows. I am fairly confident that he isn't moved as Pops seems pretty content on trying to make the playoffs while doing an undercover rebuild with non-elite talents. I doubt it works, but I don't like second guessing that man.
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Re: San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland) 

Post#82 » by monopoman » Mon Sep 2, 2019 2:02 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:I love the argument that Nurkic doesn't have much value because he is an 'outdated archetype' coming from a fan of a team whos two best players play the mid ranged game, which is literally the definition of an outdated, inefficient playing style.

Aldridge has value, but I would say that value is closer to two early 20's FRP's than a lotto pick. I may be wrong, who knows. I am fairly confident that he isn't moved as Pops seems pretty content on trying to make the playoffs while doing an undercover rebuild with non-elite talents. I doubt it works, but I don't like second guessing that man.

Even if Pop is 100% right on that this is the best path for the Spurs how many more years does he have left on the team?

2?
3?
4?
5?

If he makes it another 5 seasons I will be blown away he is quite old, and quite a few head coaches retired at a younger age. The Spurs should start planning for a post Pop world especially if they want to maximize their rebuild process because eventually they will have to rebuild period. He has coached the Spurs since 1996 that is 23 years, way beyond the length that most coaches have with one team.
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Re: San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland) 

Post#83 » by 21 TD » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:23 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Top 20ish player is a bit ambitious. He's 20th in RPM among centers and 73rd in the league...catch all stats obviously aren't perfect, but he was probably about the 30th-35th best player in the league


Per Rudy: Aldridge isn't in the same conversation as Gobert...and this 'Gobert isn't useful in the playoffs' narrative is utterly lazy revisionist history. Once players started buying into the defensive game plan last series (game 3), Utah was in it, and they were in it entirely because of Rudy.

Aldridge being a top 20 player: the consensus on the general board is that he isn't, it would be the consensus here, and just about everywhere else. There also isn't a statistical argument to be made that he is a top 20 player. Doesn't mean you have to believe the evidence - that's completely your prerogative - but there's a reason why no one is buying it.


I don't know if you've been following SI's annual top 100, but they're up to 31 and had Vucevic 45th. Meanwhile, Aldridge has yet to appear.

Before you say it's merely one publication and he probably won't be ranked much higher, the point is, Vucevic is a half decade younger and comfortably outpaced Aldridge in catch all metrics last season. Yet, despite the writer being analytically driven, he's placed him well behind him and nowhere near the top 20 player those metrics indicate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking the majority of people in and around the league base their opinions primarily off of that, when there's countless evidence to the contrary of that not being the case.
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Re: San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland) 

Post#84 » by babyjax13 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:04 pm

21 TD wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Top 20ish player is a bit ambitious. He's 20th in RPM among centers and 73rd in the league...catch all stats obviously aren't perfect, but he was probably about the 30th-35th best player in the league


Per Rudy: Aldridge isn't in the same conversation as Gobert...and this 'Gobert isn't useful in the playoffs' narrative is utterly lazy revisionist history. Once players started buying into the defensive game plan last series (game 3), Utah was in it, and they were in it entirely because of Rudy.

Aldridge being a top 20 player: the consensus on the general board is that he isn't, it would be the consensus here, and just about everywhere else. There also isn't a statistical argument to be made that he is a top 20 player. Doesn't mean you have to believe the evidence - that's completely your prerogative - but there's a reason why no one is buying it.


I don't know if you've been following SI's annual top 100, but they're up to 31 and had Vucevic 45th. Meanwhile, Aldridge has yet to appear.

Before you say it's merely one publication and he probably won't be ranked much higher, the point is, Vucevic is a half decade younger and comfortably outpaced Aldridge in catch all metrics last season. Yet, despite the writer being analytically driven, he's placed him well behind him and nowhere near the top 20 player those metrics indicate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking the majority of people in and around the league base their opinions primarily off of that, when there's countless evidence to the contrary of that not being the case.


Me: 'he was probably about the 30th-35th best player ... top 20ish ... is a bit ambitious...'

We will see, but I think you are jumping the gun a bit.
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Re: San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland) 

Post#85 » by 21 TD » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:09 pm

21 TD wrote:Before you say it's merely one publication and he probably won't be ranked much higher, the point is


babyjax13 wrote:Me: 'he was probably about the 30th-35th best player ... top 20ish ... is a bit ambitious...'

We will see, but I think you are jumping the gun a bit.


You missed the point.
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Re: San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland) 

Post#86 » by babyjax13 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:11 pm

21 TD wrote:
21 TD wrote:Before you say it's merely one publication and he probably won't be ranked much higher, the point is


babyjax13 wrote:Me: 'he was probably about the 30th-35th best player ... top 20ish ... is a bit ambitious...'

We will see, but I think you are jumping the gun a bit.


You missed the point.


If I were purely going by analytics I wouldn't say he was even close to the top 30. Maybe your point applies to someone else.
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Re: San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland) 

Post#87 » by ecuhus1981 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:55 am

Dup
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Re: San Antonio rebuild (w/Atlanta, Detroit, Portland) 

Post#88 » by ecuhus1981 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:56 am

These multi-trade threads can get a bit convoluted. I understand that it's all one direction for San Antonio, but the discussion starts to fragment over different portions of the original proposal.

Trade one is unlikely for Atlanta. First of all, I don't think they're as close as you think they are to a postseason berth. That's another season away in my opinion. They also just drafted a bunch of forwards who they will want to get as many minutes as possible, and you have them trading for old veterans who would want to carve into those young players' PT.

Trade two is messy. Boil it down to the essential parts, DeRozan for Snell, Jackson and a 1st.

Trade three is a nice simple idea, if nurkic recovers fine and the Spurs are on the outside of the playoff picture looking in, it makes a ton of sense.

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