Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade

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Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#1 » by Darren » Wed Sep 4, 2019 8:23 am

Dallas gets Norman Powell, Fred Van Vleet

Toronto gets Maxi Kleber, Seth Curry, Dorian Finney-Smith


WHY FOR DALLAS?
The Mavs gets younger in the deal. When the Mavs sign-and-trade for FVV's ex-teammate Delon Wright, I think it is possible that the Mavs targets FVV next offseason. However, after all the signing, the Mavs only has MLE to offer with. Making a trade seems to be a great option. While Powell is overpaid, the Mavs actually has a wide-open 2-3 starting spot. And the Mavs is trying to build around international players. A Canadian Powell-Powell reunion makes senses.


WHY FOR TORONTO?
Toronto gets rid of Powell and add decent role players Kleber (as Ibaka replacement next summer), Curry (as FVV replacement) and a lengthy defenders who guards different position as OG did. As Toronto is still heading towards playoff in Eastern Conference, this trade makes sense somewhat to Toronto who doesn't need to risk Van Vleet moving on (highly likely after Leonard departure) and gets back rotation players on good term.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#2 » by Mr Swagtastic » Wed Sep 4, 2019 11:34 am

Darren wrote:Dallas gets Norman Powell, Fred Van Vleet

Toronto gets Maxi Kleber, Seth Curry, Dorian Finney-Smith


WHY FOR DALLAS?
The Mavs gets younger in the deal. When the Mavs sign-and-trade for FVV's ex-teammate Delon Wright, I think it is possible that the Mavs targets FVV next offseason. However, after all the signing, the Mavs only has MLE to offer with. Making a trade seems to be a great option. While Powell is overpaid, the Mavs actually has a wide-open 2-3 starting spot. And the Mavs is trying to build around international players. A Canadian Powell-Powell reunion makes senses.


WHY FOR TORONTO?
Toronto gets rid of Powell and add decent role players Kleber (as Ibaka replacement next summer), Curry (as FVV replacement) and a lengthy defenders who guards different position as OG did. As Toronto is still heading towards playoff in Eastern Conference, this trade makes sense somewhat to Toronto who doesn't need to risk Van Vleet moving on (highly likely after Leonard departure) and gets back rotation players on good term.
Toronto's Powell isn't Canadian, he's born in San Diego. He's a tad overpaid but not terribly so and what is Toronto going to do with that extra money? This next offseason is isn't a great one. There's some good restricted FA's like Brown, Hield, Ingram, Sabonis, Bogdanovic and Murray but I don't think Toronto overpay for one of those guys and I expect Hield, Ingram and Murray all resigned throughout the season and I think Indy is going to use one of Myles Turner or Sabonis in a trade

The deal isn't bad for Toronto just not a move I see them making because there's no long term pieces coming back. Kleiber is a older role player who can't play the center and with Siakam. Curry is a good shooter in spurts like a bench guy to give you quick buckets but isn't much else and his contract is meh leaving Finney-Smith is a tough one to judge for me being a Gators fan. He's a hard nosed defender but we have guys like him in Anunoby, Hollis-Jefferson and Stanley Johnson so where are we going to slot him in?
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#3 » by daoneandonly » Wed Sep 4, 2019 12:52 pm

No need for Dallas to take on two undersized guards, one of which is extremely overpaid, the other will be overpaid for useful pieces. Just a non starter.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#4 » by Asif16 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:26 pm

Hard Pass for the Raptors. Thats not enough for Powell and FVV
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#5 » by Duffman100 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:33 pm

daoneandonly wrote:No need for Dallas to take on two undersized guards, one of which is extremely overpaid, the other will be overpaid for useful pieces. Just a non starter.


Extremely overpaid is a bit much.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#6 » by babyjax13 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:50 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:No need for Dallas to take on two undersized guards, one of which is extremely overpaid, the other will be overpaid for useful pieces. Just a non starter.


Extremely overpaid is a bit much.


Not really. There are a ton of sub $3 million dollar wings who give similar production to Powell.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#7 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 4, 2019 8:26 pm

I think FVV has an outside chance to become that 3rd guy that DAL needs w/ Luka and Zinger so this deal clearly would be a good move for them. I think he can become a Damon Stoudamire level impact type, which is passable for a teams #3 guy. With the limited resourced Dallas has to find that 3rd guy, the deal makes even more sense.

For the same reasons, TOR likely declines.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#8 » by Duffman100 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 8:43 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:No need for Dallas to take on two undersized guards, one of which is extremely overpaid, the other will be overpaid for useful pieces. Just a non starter.


Extremely overpaid is a bit much.


Not really. There are a ton of sub $3 million dollar wings who give similar production to Powell.


How many of those are on rookie deals set for a raise?
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#9 » by TerryTate » Wed Sep 4, 2019 9:12 pm

Dwight Powell and a pick and I'd consider it.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#10 » by Mr Swagtastic » Wed Sep 4, 2019 10:05 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:No need for Dallas to take on two undersized guards, one of which is extremely overpaid, the other will be overpaid for useful pieces. Just a non starter.


Extremely overpaid is a bit much.


Not really. There are a ton of sub $3 million dollar wings who give similar production to Powell.
Name those guards who aren't rookie scale deals. Powell isn't extremely overpaid, he's a solid three and d wing just inconsistent with the new CBA guys are getting $10 million like Oprah gives out gifts. I mean if Taj Gibson gets $9 million a year Powell should.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#11 » by babyjax13 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 10:56 pm

Mr Swagtastic wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Extremely overpaid is a bit much.


Not really. There are a ton of sub $3 million dollar wings who give similar production to Powell.
Name those guards who aren't rookie scale deals. Powell isn't extremely overpaid, he's a solid three and d wing just inconsistent with the new CBA guys are getting $10 million like Oprah gives out gifts. I mean if Taj Gibson gets $9 million a year Powell should.


Sub $3 million
James Ennis
Iman Shumpert
Jerian Grant
Bryn Forbes
Lance Stephenson
Alec Burks
Wes Matthews

Sub $5 million
Reggie Bullock
KCP
Dorian Finney-Smith
Garrett Temple
Justin Holiday
Daniel House

Sub $9 million
KCP
Rodney Hood
Wayne Ellington

Just a quick list of inconsistent shooters who aren't complete sieves on defense. Some in each category are about as good as Powell, and it seems to me he should be making about $4-5 million a year, but certainly not $10 million. Replace him with anyone on the 'sub $3 million' list and Toronto wins a similar amount of games next season.

Also, I believe Holiday is the only one who wasn't a free agent this offseason.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#12 » by babyjax13 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 10:58 pm

'He's not very overpaid' isn't helpful or accurate analysis. Powell signed for a long time for probably double what he's worth - that's a negative value contract and it's easy to sign a player of that caliber or similar for less. This doesn't count how easy it is to draft someone, or sign a free agent from the dleague. Backup wings that aren't going to hurt you if they have to start some games are a dime a dozen. As a fan of a team that has had Alec Burks and still has Dante Exum, I know what that feels like (and believing in your guy), but people from the outside aren't going to be as enthusiastic as you.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#13 » by jbk1234 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 10:59 pm

I don't like this for Dallas. I thought Curry was the bargain contract of the summer.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#14 » by babyjax13 » Thu Sep 5, 2019 1:55 am

Mr Swagtastic wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Extremely overpaid is a bit much.


Not really. There are a ton of sub $3 million dollar wings who give similar production to Powell.
Name those guards who aren't rookie scale deals. Powell isn't extremely overpaid, he's a solid three and d wing just inconsistent with the new CBA guys are getting $10 million like Oprah gives out gifts. I mean if Taj Gibson gets $9 million a year Powell should.

Taj is overpaid, too.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#15 » by Mr Swagtastic » Thu Sep 5, 2019 3:04 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Mr Swagtastic wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Not really. There are a ton of sub $3 million dollar wings who give similar production to Powell.
Name those guards who aren't rookie scale deals. Powell isn't extremely overpaid, he's a solid three and d wing just inconsistent with the new CBA guys are getting $10 million like Oprah gives out gifts. I mean if Taj Gibson gets $9 million a year Powell should.


Sub $3 million
James Ennis
Iman Shumpert
Jerian Grant
Bryn Forbes
Lance Stephenson
Alec Burks
Wes Matthews

Sub $5 million
Reggie Bullock
KCP
Dorian Finney-Smith
Garrett Temple
Justin Holiday
Daniel House

Sub $9 million
KCP
Rodney Hood
Wayne Ellington

Just a quick list of inconsistent shooters who aren't complete sieves on defense. Some in each category are about as good as Powell, and it seems to me he should be making about $4-5 million a year, but certainly not $10 million. Replace him with anyone on the 'sub $3 million' list and Toronto wins a similar amount of games next season.

Also, I believe Holiday is the only one who wasn't a free agent this offseason.


There's a lot of guys on that list Powell is better than. Starting with House, Forbes, Lance Stephenson, Iman Shumpert and Wes Matthews now. Wes maybe 2 years ago was better but he's 33 and really could only get the veterans minimum. He's a solid three point shooter but his explosiveness is gone and he's not that great of a defender anymore. He's below average at best, if you swapped Powell for guys like Ennis, Burks and the above mentioned we are not better than we are with Norm IMHO depending on the player we're worse.

People are treating Powell's deal like he's Batum, Wiggins, Wall, Paul, Dieng, Hayward, Felicio or Parsons.

I am no way saying Powell is great or even good he's serviceable and doesn't hurt any FA class we are trying to build through, if Toronto is moving VanVleet it's not to dump Norm and get guys who may is may not be better. Like I said Curry, Finey-Smith and Kleiber don't do that especially when Ibaka is probably the third best piece in the deal
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#16 » by Asif16 » Thu Sep 5, 2019 1:19 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Mr Swagtastic wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Not really. There are a ton of sub $3 million dollar wings who give similar production to Powell.
Name those guards who aren't rookie scale deals. Powell isn't extremely overpaid, he's a solid three and d wing just inconsistent with the new CBA guys are getting $10 million like Oprah gives out gifts. I mean if Taj Gibson gets $9 million a year Powell should.


Sub $3 million
James Ennis
Iman Shumpert
Jerian Grant
Bryn Forbes
Lance Stephenson
Alec Burks
Wes Matthews

Sub $5 million
Reggie Bullock
KCP
Dorian Finney-Smith
Garrett Temple
Justin Holiday
Daniel House

Sub $9 million
KCP
Rodney Hood
Wayne Ellington

Just a quick list of inconsistent shooters who aren't complete sieves on defense. Some in each category are about as good as Powell, and it seems to me he should be making about $4-5 million a year, but certainly not $10 million. Replace him with anyone on the 'sub $3 million' list and Toronto wins a similar amount of games next season.

Also, I believe Holiday is the only one who wasn't a free agent this offseason.


Some of these names are just disrespectful to be comparing to Norman Powell. Your value of Powell is hilarious low if you think this
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#17 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Sep 5, 2019 1:23 pm

According to realgm, everyone who isn’t on a rookie contract or top 5 player is overpaid except Robert Covington.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#18 » by pacers33granger » Thu Sep 5, 2019 2:37 pm

Toronto has no reason to dump Powell, but it's laughable to believe he isn't negative value. No one wants to pay that kind of money to a backup guard. And there were very few non-max guys who got 3 full guaranteed years this summer (which is what Powell has left). Teams do not want to tie up cap space that long on role players anymore.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#19 » by babyjax13 » Thu Sep 5, 2019 2:39 pm

Mr Swagtastic wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Mr Swagtastic wrote:Name those guards who aren't rookie scale deals. Powell isn't extremely overpaid, he's a solid three and d wing just inconsistent with the new CBA guys are getting $10 million like Oprah gives out gifts. I mean if Taj Gibson gets $9 million a year Powell should.


Sub $3 million
James Ennis
Iman Shumpert
Jerian Grant
Bryn Forbes
Lance Stephenson
Alec Burks
Wes Matthews

Sub $5 million
Reggie Bullock
KCP
Dorian Finney-Smith
Garrett Temple
Justin Holiday
Daniel House

Sub $9 million
KCP
Rodney Hood
Wayne Ellington

Just a quick list of inconsistent shooters who aren't complete sieves on defense. Some in each category are about as good as Powell, and it seems to me he should be making about $4-5 million a year, but certainly not $10 million. Replace him with anyone on the 'sub $3 million' list and Toronto wins a similar amount of games next season.

Also, I believe Holiday is the only one who wasn't a free agent this offseason.


There's a lot of guys on that list Powell is better than. Starting with House, Forbes, Lance Stephenson, Iman Shumpert and Wes Matthews now. Wes maybe 2 years ago was better but he's 33 and really could only get the veterans minimum. He's a solid three point shooter but his explosiveness is gone and he's not that great of a defender anymore. He's below average at best, if you swapped Powell for guys like Ennis, Burks and the above mentioned we are not better than we are with Norm IMHO depending on the player we're worse.

People are treating Powell's deal like he's Batum, Wiggins, Wall, Paul, Dieng, Hayward, Felicio or Parsons.

I am no way saying Powell is great or even good he's serviceable and doesn't hurt any FA class we are trying to build through, if Toronto is moving VanVleet it's not to dump Norm and get guys who may is may not be better. Like I said Curry, Finey-Smith and Kleiber don't do that especially when Ibaka is probably the third best piece in the deal


And Toronto fans talk about him like he isn't a negative value contract at all! The point is, he's overpaid by a significant amount, and much cheaper players can competently provide what he does.

You'll see I said he should fit in that below $5 million group after going through some salaries, I think you'd probably agree. If he were only overpaid this year it wouldn't be a big deal, but Toronto would have to attach *at least* two seconds (likely a late first) to move him in a pure salary dump, or do the same thing Milwaukee did with Tony Snell.
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Re: Dallas-Toronto Mid-season Trade 

Post#20 » by babyjax13 » Thu Sep 5, 2019 2:42 pm

Asif16 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Mr Swagtastic wrote:Name those guards who aren't rookie scale deals. Powell isn't extremely overpaid, he's a solid three and d wing just inconsistent with the new CBA guys are getting $10 million like Oprah gives out gifts. I mean if Taj Gibson gets $9 million a year Powell should.


Sub $3 million
James Ennis
Iman Shumpert
Jerian Grant
Bryn Forbes
Lance Stephenson
Alec Burks
Wes Matthews

Sub $5 million
Reggie Bullock
KCP
Dorian Finney-Smith
Garrett Temple
Justin Holiday
Daniel House

Sub $9 million
KCP
Rodney Hood
Wayne Ellington

Just a quick list of inconsistent shooters who aren't complete sieves on defense. Some in each category are about as good as Powell, and it seems to me he should be making about $4-5 million a year, but certainly not $10 million. Replace him with anyone on the 'sub $3 million' list and Toronto wins a similar amount of games next season.

Also, I believe Holiday is the only one who wasn't a free agent this offseason.


Some of these names are just disrespectful to be comparing to Norman Powell. Your value of Powell is hilarious low if you think this


Maybe you looked at the least and not the text. But yah, my valuation of him is low (well, negative), right where it should be. I'd take Shumpert on the minimum and be ok with that downgrade (which isn't immense) before taking Powell on his contract.
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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