Per Shams Heat still interested in CP3

Dn4sty · Post #1 » by **Dn4sty** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:44 pm

?s=21

Thoughts?

Post #2 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:02 pm

I'm still on board with it. I'm sure Dragic is outgoing so you could even add a team like Detroit or Orlando and potentially get another asset for him.

ecuhus1981 · Post #3 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:15 pm

Mamba4Goat wrote:I'm still on board with it. I'm sure Dragic is outgoing so you could even add a team like Detroit or Orlando and potentially get another asset for him.

See, I think this is why the two teams are at an impasse.

MIA probably still views Goran as a difference-maker, worthy of fetching a late 1st or even 2 in exchange for valueless expirings. I don't view him as such.

Similarly, OKC is going to talk up CP3 as an elite vet, but health and regression are huge flags. I personally think that outside of Houston and with the keys to a system, he'll regain All-NBA form.

The first few weeks of the NBA season will be telling.

BoogieTime · Post #4 » by **BoogieTime** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:18 pm

Thunder shouldn’t attach picks to dump him though, so Heat just taking him on?

Crives · Post #5 » by **Crives** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:20 pm

BoogieTime wrote:Thunder shouldn’t attach picks to dump him though, so Heat just taking him on?

That’s like saying the wolves wouldn’t need to attach picks to move Wiggins. That CP3 contract is deadly combined with CP3 age

BoogieTime · Post #6 » by **BoogieTime** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:22 pm

Crives wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Thunder shouldn’t attach picks to dump him though, so Heat just taking him on?

That’s like saying the wolves wouldn’t need to attach picks to move Wiggins. That CP3 contract is deadly combined with CP3 age

The Thunder don’t ‘need’ the space. They are rebuilding. Paul is going down, but he could still be serviceable mostly throughout

Post #7 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:32 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:I'm still on board with it. I'm sure Dragic is outgoing so you could even add a team like Detroit or Orlando and potentially get another asset for him.

See, I think this is why the two teams are at an impasse.

MIA probably still views Goran as a difference-maker, worthy of fetching a late 1st or even 2 in exchange for valueless expirings. I don't view him as such.

Similarly, OKC is going to talk up CP3 as an elite vet, but health and regression are huge flags. I personally think that outside of Houston and with the keys to a system, he'll regain All-NBA form.

The first few weeks of the NBA season will be telling.

I'm in the same boat. I think until they trade at least one of Paul/Gallo/Adams, OKC is a playoff threat. Paul is going to be playing like a top 5 PG now that he's with a less ball dominant guard again.

giberish · Post #8 » by **giberish** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:35 pm

Crives wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Thunder shouldn’t attach picks to dump him though, so Heat just taking him on?

That’s like saying the wolves wouldn’t need to attach picks to move Wiggins. That CP3 contract is deadly combined with CP3 age

I have to assume there'd be some bad contract money heading out from Miami - Johnson and/or Waiters. It's only 2 years vs 3 (which is why Heat posters here are strongly against it) but it lessons the bad contract hit for Paul.

Similarly I strongly believe that Minnesota didn't need to attach picks to move Wiggins for short-term bad money this summer (2 year deal(s) if not 1 year), but Minny's owner continues to over value Wiggins to the point where he had no interest in such a move.

becorz · Post #9 » by **becorz** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:36 pm

Crives wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Thunder shouldn’t attach picks to dump him though, so Heat just taking him on?

That’s like saying the wolves wouldn’t need to attach picks to move Wiggins. That CP3 contract is deadly combined with CP3 age

I read it that the Thunder wanted the draft picks from Miami. Now that I reread it, it doesn't specify either way. Maybe it is clarified from whatever radio show they got this from?

I guess on my end, I have never known the Heat as a team to demand draft picks for taking on salary. I see the Thunder as wanting future assets. And I think Paul is still all-star caliber.

To me, a player as good as Paul will almost always find a home. Just the same way I think Wall will if he is able to come back from his injury in good form. There is always going to be a team that will talk themselves into a good player on a bad contract.

I continue to think Paul for Dragic and Johnson makes too much sense for both sides not to work it out.

Post #10 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:49 pm

Great, can't wait for more posturing on here about the picks.

It's an obvious fit for both. Chris Paul is still a top 20 player when healthy, and NBA folks have short memories. If he comes out the gate looking good, which he should since OKC is motivated to show him off and he's motivated to get out of town, his value will rise pretty quickly. And OKC has 3 capable points on the roster now, so he won't get run into the ground. The Heat currently owe their picks and could similarly use strong starts from Herro and Bam to up their trade value. As it stands, those guys aren't bringing back a star. But if they start well and Miami can get CP without much more than taking on his salary and can also try to get someone like Beal, that would be huge.

My favorite set of deals still involves moving CP for smaller contracts and maybe a little bit of an asset and then moving Gallo for a pick. Keep Adams.

shrink · Post #11 » by **shrink** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:59 pm

Pat Riley and the Heat are really the only team I could see taking on Chris Paul. Riley wants to compete every season, he has dealt with big contracts and big egos, and he went and got Jimmy Butler this summer. Paul is a bad contract whatever team he is on, but his production has more value to MIA than OKC, so the deal makes sense, if they can establish a price.

OKC’s original deal was Russell Westbrook for Chris Paul + ....
2024 first round pick, protected 1-4
2026 first round pick, protected 1-4
2025 swap, 1-20 protected
2021 swap, protected 1-4 -- OKC can swap Clippers pick or Heat pick

Personally, I am no fan of Westbrook’s contract. ($38,178,000, $41,006,000, $43,848,000, $46,662,000). I would rather have an expiring Dragic, or even two of the Heat’s bad two year deals, rather than Westbrook and the $90 mil he is owed for Years 3-4.

However, the problem is that OKC has no real reason to send all those picks they got to MIA to get “better” contracts. While it’s nice to get off Paul’s bad deal (I think, third worst in the league), the Thunder will be lottery-bound for several years, and not a free agent destination. Even if Paul hurts their books, those picks are a better source of talent than cap space.

Hopefully the two teams can split the difference on the trade price, because I would prefer to see Paul competing in MIA.

Post #12 » by **dakomish23** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:02 pm

Not surprised. Actually think Jimmy and him will have a good relationship.

Karate Diop · Post #13 » by **Karate Diop** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:05 pm

The sooner they move Paul the better... He'll probably play about 60 games again this year max...

Post #14 » by **BBallFreak** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:19 pm

I'm not surprised Miami's expressing interest. I personally hope it doesn't happen. I want nothing to do with Paul.

giberish · Post #15 » by **giberish** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:22 pm

becorz wrote:
Crives wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Thunder shouldn’t attach picks to dump him though, so Heat just taking him on?

That’s like saying the wolves wouldn’t need to attach picks to move Wiggins. That CP3 contract is deadly combined with CP3 age

I read it that the Thunder wanted the draft picks from Miami. Now that I reread it, it doesn't specify either way. Maybe it is clarified from whatever radio show they got this form?

I guess on my end, I have never known the Heat as a team to demand draft picks for taking on salary. I see the Thunder as wanting future assets. And I think Paul is still all-star caliber.

That's really the issue. Normally you see teams getting picks when dealing a star. However this board is all about adding picks for taking on long-term contract seen as bad. To me the fairest deal involves no picks (or maybe 2nds that don't really matter at this level).

Crives · Post #16 » by **Crives** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:02 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Great, can't wait for more posturing on here about the picks.

It's an obvious fit for both. Chris Paul is still a top 20 player when healthy, and NBA folks have short memories. If he comes out the gate looking good, which he should since OKC is motivated to show him off and he's motivated to get out of town, his value will rise pretty quickly. And OKC has 3 capable points on the roster now, so he won't get run into the ground. The Heat currently owe their picks and could similarly use strong starts from Herro and Bam to up their trade value. As it stands, those guys aren't bringing back a star. But if they start well and Miami can get CP without much more than taking on his salary and can also try to get someone like Beal, that would be huge.

My favorite set of deals still involves moving CP for smaller contracts and maybe a little bit of an asset and then moving Gallo for a pick. Keep Adams.

I don’t think CP3 was close to a top 20 player last year...

Being a top 20 player next season is probably the best case scenario... do you think teams should offer a deal equivalent to CP3’s best case scenario? I think a median outlook would be closer to top 50 next year...

Post #17 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:19 pm

Crives wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Great, can't wait for more posturing on here about the picks.

It's an obvious fit for both. Chris Paul is still a top 20 player when healthy, and NBA folks have short memories. If he comes out the gate looking good, which he should since OKC is motivated to show him off and he's motivated to get out of town, his value will rise pretty quickly. And OKC has 3 capable points on the roster now, so he won't get run into the ground. The Heat currently owe their picks and could similarly use strong starts from Herro and Bam to up their trade value. As it stands, those guys aren't bringing back a star. But if they start well and Miami can get CP without much more than taking on his salary and can also try to get someone like Beal, that would be huge.

My favorite set of deals still involves moving CP for smaller contracts and maybe a little bit of an asset and then moving Gallo for a pick. Keep Adams.

I don’t think CP3 was close to a top 20 player last year...

Being a top 20 player next season is probably the best case scenario... do you think teams should offer a deal equivalent to CP3’s best case scenario? I think a median outlook would be closer to top 50 next year...

I know everyone has their own opinions on these types of rankings, but SI put him at 21 in their top 100 for the upcoming season.

Crives · Post #18 » by **Crives** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:40 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Crives wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Great, can't wait for more posturing on here about the picks.

It's an obvious fit for both. Chris Paul is still a top 20 player when healthy, and NBA folks have short memories. If he comes out the gate looking good, which he should since OKC is motivated to show him off and he's motivated to get out of town, his value will rise pretty quickly. And OKC has 3 capable points on the roster now, so he won't get run into the ground. The Heat currently owe their picks and could similarly use strong starts from Herro and Bam to up their trade value. As it stands, those guys aren't bringing back a star. But if they start well and Miami can get CP without much more than taking on his salary and can also try to get someone like Beal, that would be huge.

My favorite set of deals still involves moving CP for smaller contracts and maybe a little bit of an asset and then moving Gallo for a pick. Keep Adams.

I don’t think CP3 was close to a top 20 player last year...

Being a top 20 player next season is probably the best case scenario... do you think teams should offer a deal equivalent to CP3’s best case scenario? I think a median outlook would be closer to top 50 next year...

I know everyone has their own opinions on these types of rankings, but SI put him at 21 in their top 100 for the upcoming season.

But don’t you think that’s closer to best case scenario? And that the median scenario is much lower when you consider all of the risks involved?

Post #19 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:50 pm

I think it makes a on of sense. Now to haggle price.

Post #20 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:53 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:I think it makes a on of sense. Now to haggle price.

BBallFreak and I have been doing so since the Russ trade.

This might be a dumb idea but I’m thinking of something where two posters engage in a trade scenario from their own teams and then disinterested posters vote on offers and counter offers etc.

Once the season starts I’ll be done with these ideas.