Washington-NO-Orlando-Memphis

Post #1 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:36 pm

Washington sends: Beal
Washington receives: Ingram, Gordon

NO sends: Ingram, Holiday, Moore
NO receives: Beal, Birch, Crowder

Orlando sends: Gordon, Birch
Orlando receives: Holiday

(Stop me if you've heard this part)
Memphis sends: Crowder
Memphis receives: Moore

Some seconds here and there maybe?

Why for Washington? They reset the roster with youngsters that are both good now, and young enough to be a part of the future too.

Why for NO? They get a star SG and move to a somewhat better roster makeup.

Why for Orlando? They clear out their excessive forward depth to get an all star level combo guard. (Either starts at PG or moves Fournier to the bench or SF and starts at SG)

Why for Memphis? They move one of their 3 vet SF's for a SG that can space the floor better.

tiderulz · Post #2 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:00 pm

Orlando isnt trading one of the faces of their franchise who continues to improve for Jrue who is 5 years older. If Gordon is moved, i think it would be in a package for a bigger player than Jrue.

as for Forward depth, they really only have 3 (AG, Isaac and now Aminu) i wouldnt call that excessive. And Aminu is a decent, but average starter. So Orlando would gain at guard position and lose at forward position. all things being equal, they keep their own player

Post #3 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:15 pm

tiderulz wrote:Orlando isnt trading one of the faces of their franchise who continues to improve for Jrue who is 5 years older. If Gordon is moved, i think it would be in a package for a bigger player than Jrue.

as for Forward depth, they really only have 3 (AG, Isaac and now Aminu) i wouldnt call that excessive. And Aminu is a decent, but average starter. So Orlando would gain at guard position and lose at forward position. all things being equal, they keep their own player

They have Isaac, Gordon, the rookie, and Aminu who all are best at PF. Sure, they can play out of position, but why hinder development? Holiday is a low key star and unless you're making a crazy package he's likely one of the better players they could get for an AG package.

Maybe I'm crazy but I would rather rely on Isaac, Ross, and Aminu than rely on Fultz, DJ, Fournier, and Ross.

SmokeyPaw · Post #4 » by **SmokeyPaw** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:32 pm

I like the moore/ crowder part.

E S V L · Post #5 » by **E S V L** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:33 pm

Easy pass from Memphis. No interest in Moore. At all.

tiderulz · Post #6 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:58 pm

Mamba4Goat wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Orlando isnt trading one of the faces of their franchise who continues to improve for Jrue who is 5 years older. If Gordon is moved, i think it would be in a package for a bigger player than Jrue.

as for Forward depth, they really only have 3 (AG, Isaac and now Aminu) i wouldnt call that excessive. And Aminu is a decent, but average starter. So Orlando would gain at guard position and lose at forward position. all things being equal, they keep their own player

They have Isaac, Gordon, the rookie, and Aminu who all are best at PF. Sure, they can play out of position, but why hinder development? Holiday is a low key star and unless you're making a crazy package he's likely one of the better players they could get for an AG package.

Maybe I'm crazy but I would rather rely on Isaac, Ross, and Aminu than rely on Fultz, DJ, Fournier, and Ross.

Rookie wont see the court this year at all. so best not make any plans for him yet. AG played half his time at SF last year and the team seemed fine. AG and JI play very well together in that they can switch on anyone. Aminu increases our bench talent. Okeke, who knows what he becomes, how long he takes to heal. I agree Jrue is low key star, he also turns 30 this year.

psman2 · Post #7 » by **psman2** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:17 pm

E S V L wrote:Easy pass from Memphis. No interest in Moore. At all.

Yep. No reason to move Crowder unless it is for an draft asset or young player. Rather just play Brooks, Allen, Guduric, Melton and even Jones in a 2 PG lineup. What does giving Moore minutes over some of these young guys give us?

drosestruts · Post #8 » by **drosestruts** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:38 pm

psman2 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Easy pass from Memphis. No interest in Moore. At all.

Yep. No reason to move Crowder unless it is for an draft asset or young player. Rather just play Brooks, Allen, Guduric, Melton and even Jones in a 2 PG lineup. What does giving Moore minutes over some of these young guys give us?

Talent, structure, dependability.

I get developing young guys but to me there's a limit. If everyone out there is learning and is unsure of what to do/where to be or is incapable of something (hitting 3's, attacking closeouts, making the extra pass, etc.) it hampers the development of other, more important players.

Memphis should be focused on maxmizing the development of JJJ and Ja - the way to do this is not by playing them with too many other young players, but by playing them with people who are talented and know how to play.

Memphis currently has a gap of that kind of player at the 2-guard position. Moore can fill that gap.

Post #9 » by **VCfor3** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:17 pm

drosestruts wrote:
psman2 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Easy pass from Memphis. No interest in Moore. At all.

Yep. No reason to move Crowder unless it is for an draft asset or young player. Rather just play Brooks, Allen, Guduric, Melton and even Jones in a 2 PG lineup. What does giving Moore minutes over some of these young guys give us?

Talent, structure, dependability.

I get developing young guys but to me there's a limit. If everyone out there is learning and is unsure of what to do/where to be or is incapable of something (hitting 3's, attacking closeouts, making the extra pass, etc.) it hampers the development of other, more important players.

Memphis should be focused on maxmizing the development of JJJ and Ja - the way to do this is not by playing them with too many other young players, but by playing them with people who are talented and know how to play.

Memphis currently has a gap of that kind of player at the 2-guard position. Moore can fill that gap.

But we have Iggy

psman2 · Post #10 » by **psman2** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:32 pm

drosestruts wrote:
psman2 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Easy pass from Memphis. No interest in Moore. At all.

Yep. No reason to move Crowder unless it is for an draft asset or young player. Rather just play Brooks, Allen, Guduric, Melton and even Jones in a 2 PG lineup. What does giving Moore minutes over some of these young guys give us?

Talent, structure, dependability.

I get developing young guys but to me there's a limit. If everyone out there is learning and is unsure of what to do/where to be or is incapable of something (hitting 3's, attacking closeouts, making the extra pass, etc.) it hampers the development of other, more important players.

Memphis should be focused on maxmizing the development of JJJ and Ja - the way to do this is not by playing them with too many other young players, but by playing them with people who are talented and know how to play.

Memphis currently has a gap of that kind of player at the 2-guard position. Moore can fill that gap.

Where did I imply that vets are not important. We have plenty of Vets that will be in the eight man rotation in Val, Jones, Anderson, and even Crowder if we don't trade him. You don't have to have a rotation vet at every position and I would rather have Crowder as a 3/4 vet for our depth chart and available minutes over Moore. Simple.

This team is not set up like Phoenix has been for many years.

Post #11 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 pm

Fwiw, I would rather be feeding Clarke minutes (where Crowder is) than Allen, Brooks, Melton, etc. (Where Moore is) and have a steady hand there.

babyjax13 · Post #12 » by **babyjax13** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:58 pm

Holiday is the best player in this deal by a fair margin (imo) and has been pretty good in either guard spot - although the idea of Beal's shooting to spread the court for Zion and company is appealing ... so I'm torn on it for NOP. Orlando should be adding more. For Memphis, it seems fine, although they probably will really like Crowder and I don't know that they'll trade him for anyone not in their long term plans. Better to get a useless expiring and a second or two than an older shooter.

Ducklett · Post #13 » by **Ducklett** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:08 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Holiday is the best player in this deal by a fair margin (imo) and has been pretty good in either guard spot - although the idea of Beal's shooting to spread the court for Zion and company is appealing ... so I'm torn on it for NOP. Orlando should be adding more. For Memphis, it seems fine, although they probably will really like Crowder and I don't know that they'll trade him for anyone not in their long term plans. Better to get a useless expiring and a second or two than an older shooter.

Orlando should add more? For a 30 year old on his way down? Not just a pass, but a huge pass.

babyjax13 · Post #14 » by **babyjax13** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:18 pm

Ducklett wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Holiday is the best player in this deal by a fair margin (imo) and has been pretty good in either guard spot - although the idea of Beal's shooting to spread the court for Zion and company is appealing ... so I'm torn on it for NOP. Orlando should be adding more. For Memphis, it seems fine, although they probably will really like Crowder and I don't know that they'll trade him for anyone not in their long term plans. Better to get a useless expiring and a second or two than an older shooter.

Orlando should add more? For a 30 year old on his way down? Not just a pass, but a huge pass.

I mean, that's fine. But by that logic why keep Vuc? He's 28, centers tend to decline faster than guards ... so ...

If Orlando traded for Holiday they'd be much, much better. As is, they need to hope one of their young guys blossoms into a superstar, otherwise they are in for another 10 years of mediocrity.

A BETTER DJ · Post #15 » by **A BETTER DJ** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:39 pm

Considering the moves the Orlando FO made to "run it back" I don't think the Magic will be a good trading partner this season unless they are going to be big winners in a trade, especially trading one of our cornerstone players. Fans of other teams keep saying AG isn't that good and yet trades keep popping up that fans want him on their team. AG is a phenomenal defensive player and is developing a good offensive game. Management loves him, the fans love him, and the coach loves him.

psman2 · Post #16 » by **psman2** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:43 pm

Mamba4Goat wrote:Fwiw, I would rather be feeding Clarke minutes (where Crowder is) than Allen, Brooks, Melton, etc. (Where Moore is) and have a steady hand there.

The two position for the Grizz may not have any marquee names but is super crowded with players we want to give minutes to. We still love Brooks and he is likely our starter. We brought over the sharpshooter Guduric who we want to give minutes to at the 2. We have Allen who so far in preseason has looked great. There is also Melton who is still a intriguing young player. Plus Jones is likely going to see 10 minutes there. Maybe Josh Jackson earns a look after some decent play in the G league as well.

There is just no minutes that would really make sense to give Moore at the 2 and Moore is not a 3 at all in my book. Sure having another Vet like Moore wouldn't be a bad thing, but the role/need for him would be smaller than the likely role we would have for Crowder.

Our minutes at the 2 are likely to start the season as something like this Brooks 20, Jones 10, Guduric 10, Allen 8. And then see how it shakes out. I wouldn't want to give Moore really any minutes over developing any of these guys.

Our SF spot is likely something like this Anderson 22, Crowder 12, Hill 8, Brooks 6.

Our 4/5 minutes split is something like JJJ 30, Val 27, Clarke 20, Crowder 12, Caboclo 7.

Caboclo is the wild card where he might earn bigger at 3, 4, and even 5. If he does that we likely shrink Crowder's role and a deadline trade could make sense for him.

Bottom line is if we are going to keep a vet in the rotation I believe Crowder will fill a bigger need and role over Moore.

Plus Crowder has already embraced the situation and seems enthusiastic about being a mentor for this young team. Why swap out the vet that has already bonded with the team and gone through a preseason for another that hasn't if their main value is their vet presence.

orlando_joe · Post #17 » by **orlando_joe** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:57 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Holiday is the best player in this deal by a fair margin (imo) and has been pretty good in either guard spot - although the idea of Beal's shooting to spread the court for Zion and company is appealing ... so I'm torn on it for NOP. Orlando should be adding more. For Memphis, it seems fine, although they probably will really like Crowder and I don't know that they'll trade him for anyone not in their long term plans. Better to get a useless expiring and a second or two than an older shooter.

Orlando should add more? For a 30 year old on his way down? Not just a pass, but a huge pass.

I mean, that's fine. But by that logic why keep Vuc? He's 28, centers tend to decline faster than guards ... so ...

If Orlando traded for Holiday they'd be much, much better. As is, they need to hope one of their young guys blossoms into a superstar, otherwise they are in for another 10 years of mediocrity.

cant disagree more...vuc game will age well ...so...don't see holidays...so
magic will not be better without ag...sorry...magic pass easy...real easy

Ducklett · Post #18 » by **Ducklett** » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:15 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Holiday is the best player in this deal by a fair margin (imo) and has been pretty good in either guard spot - although the idea of Beal's shooting to spread the court for Zion and company is appealing ... so I'm torn on it for NOP. Orlando should be adding more. For Memphis, it seems fine, although they probably will really like Crowder and I don't know that they'll trade him for anyone not in their long term plans. Better to get a useless expiring and a second or two than an older shooter.

Orlando should add more? For a 30 year old on his way down? Not just a pass, but a huge pass.

I mean, that's fine. But by that logic why keep Vuc? He's 28, centers tend to decline faster than guards ... so ...

If Orlando traded for Holiday they'd be much, much better. As is, they need to hope one of their young guys blossoms into a superstar, otherwise they are in for another 10 years of mediocrity.

Depends on what we are trading Vuc for. I am sure that if there was a deal wHere we get a 22-24 year old future all star like this trade, we would make it in a heartbeat and not look back, then come on these forums and chat about how we just fleeced that team hard. You know, kind of like asking the Magic to trade MORE than AG for a 30 year old who relies on athleticism.

Post #19 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:53 am

A BETTER DJ wrote:Considering the moves the Orlando FO made to "run it back" I don't think the Magic will be a good trading partner this season unless they are going to be big winners in a trade, especially trading one of our cornerstone players. Fans of other teams keep saying AG isn't that good and yet trades keep popping up that fans want him on their team. AG is a phenomenal defensive player and is developing a good offensive game. Management loves him, the fans love him, and the coach loves him.

It's kinda similar to Indy. The Pacers have Sabonis, Turner, and just drafted Goga (all best at center). Despite saying they want to keep everyone and start Sabonis at the 4, it makes some sense to also try to trade Sabonis to fit another need.

Orlando has AG and Isaac, signed Aminu, and drafted Okeke. (All best at PF.) It would be logical for them to trade one of them to fill a different need.

Here at Realgm we make hypothetical trades for fun. Sure being in love with your player is all fine and dandy but it absolutely kills conversations coming in saying f that! We're never trading our guy. Have some fun and cut loose a little!

For what it's worth, it would be really fun to see a defense anchored by Jrue, Isaac, and Aminu. (Possibly Bamba too)

tiderulz · Post #20 » by **tiderulz** » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:20 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Holiday is the best player in this deal by a fair margin (imo) and has been pretty good in either guard spot - although the idea of Beal's shooting to spread the court for Zion and company is appealing ... so I'm torn on it for NOP. Orlando should be adding more. For Memphis, it seems fine, although they probably will really like Crowder and I don't know that they'll trade him for anyone not in their long term plans. Better to get a useless expiring and a second or two than an older shooter.

Orlando should add more? For a 30 year old on his way down? Not just a pass, but a huge pass.

I mean, that's fine. But by that logic why keep Vuc? He's 28, centers tend to decline faster than guards ... so ...

If Orlando traded for Holiday they'd be much, much better. As is, they need to hope one of their young guys blossoms into a superstar, otherwise they are in for another 10 years of mediocrity.

Do they? Gasol played pretty well at 34 this past year.

But it isnt keeping Vuc. its not spending assets to get Vuc (or similar older player)