RealGM

Wiggins for James Johnson and Dion Waiter

Heat get rid of some problem children and gamble on Wiggins

Wolves cut 2 years off Wiggin's contract and see how Waiters does in a more prominent role

Who says no?

Oh come on! You want to put Wiggins on Jimmy Butler's team? I wonder how that will go.

I think Chris Paul would be more likely. Or some three way.

Nice to see a Wiggins trade that isn’t for 7 unprotected picks.

But let’s look at the contracts:

James Johnson: 2 yrs, $30.96
Dion Waiters: 2 yrs, $24.75
Wiggins: 4 yrs, $121.20
C. Paul: 3 yrs, $124.08

For simplicity, (though not reality), let’s say that MIA got zero production the next two years from their players for $55.71 mil. If they traded them for Wiggins, they’d be gambling he’s worth ($121.2 - $55.71) $65.79 mil for four years, or about $16.4 mil/yr. That’s a tough call for me, but perhaps Riley realizes he needs to make some gambles to get up to MIL/PHI level. For me, I don’t have Riley’s “go for a ring every year” mentality, so I’d rather take two years of unproductive salary and bank on MIA’s ability to attract a great free agent in 2021. I’m not sure how that would sit with Jimmy. I also agree with gom that Jimmy doesn’t want Wiggins, even if he is no boat rocker.

Paul might make more sense, but in both cases, MIN and OKC are not great free agent destinations. Yeah, it’s always nice to be off bad contracts sooner, but it seems like a deal would work better if another team was brought in that valued 2021 cap space more. Unfortunately, we don’t know who the new, really bad contracts are yet.

gom wrote:Oh come on! You want to put Wiggins on Jimmy Butler's team? I wonder how that will go.

/end thread

shrink wrote:I think Chris Paul would be more likely. Or some three way.

Nice to see a Wiggins trade that isn’t for 7 unprotected picks.

But let’s look at the contracts:

James Johnson: 2 yrs, $30.96
Dion Waiters: 2 yrs, $24.75
Wiggins: 4 yrs, $121.20
C. Paul: 3 yrs, $124.08

For simplicity, (though not reality), let’s say that MIA got zero production the next two years from their players for $55.71 mil. If they traded them for Wiggins, they’d be gambling he’s worth ($121.2 - $55.71) $65.79 mil for four years, or about $16.4 mil/yr. That’s a tough call for me, but perhaps Riley realizes he needs to make some gambles to get up to MIL/PHI level. For me, I don’t have Riley’s “go for a ring every year” mentality, so I’d rather take two years of unproductive salary and bank on MIA’s ability to attract a great free agent in 2021. I’m not sure how that would sit with Jimmy. I also agree with gom that Jimmy doesn’t want Wiggins, even if he is no boat rocker.

Paul might make more sense, but in both cases, MIN and OKC are not great free agent destinations. Yeah, it’s always nice to be off bad contracts sooner, but it seems like a deal would work better if another team was brought in that valued 2021 cap space more. Unfortunately, we don’t know who the new, really bad contracts are yet.

For what it's worth, zero production from the Miami duo is better than negative production from Wiggins.

gom wrote:Oh come on! You want to put Wiggins on Jimmy Butler's team? I wonder how that will go.

Wiggins isn't holding up Jimmy's contract now though, slightly different situation

shrink wrote:I think Chris Paul would be more likely. Or some three way.

Nice to see a Wiggins trade that isn’t for 7 unprotected picks.

But let’s look at the contracts:

James Johnson: 2 yrs, $30.96
Dion Waiters: 2 yrs, $24.75
Wiggins: 4 yrs, $121.20
C. Paul: 3 yrs, $124.08

For simplicity, (though not reality), let’s say that MIA got zero production the next two years from their players for $55.71 mil. If they traded them for Wiggins, they’d be gambling he’s worth ($121.2 - $55.71) $65.79 mil for four years, or about $16.4 mil/yr. That’s a tough call for me, but perhaps Riley realizes he needs to make some gambles to get up to MIL/PHI level. For me, I don’t have Riley’s “go for a ring every year” mentality, so I’d rather take two years of unproductive salary and bank on MIA’s ability to attract a great free agent in 2021. I’m not sure how that would sit with Jimmy. I also agree with gom that Jimmy doesn’t want Wiggins, even if he is no boat rocker.

Paul might make more sense, but in both cases, MIN and OKC are not great free agent destinations. Yeah, it’s always nice to be off bad contracts sooner, but it seems like a deal would work better if another team was brought in that valued 2021 cap space more. Unfortunately, we don’t know who the new, really bad contracts are yet.

Nearly every player is more likely than Wiggins, but yeah, I don't see Miami trading for Chris Paul either, at least not without assets returning. The money difference is huge and Miami is trying to reduce the salary, especially for the future when they will need to spend more. Chris Paul makes no sense two years from now when his salary is way over $40m.

I don't really think Miami needs help at point guard. Winslow/Dragic/Nunn at point guard have solid performances so far. Nunn may even start at some point by the end of the season. He's been very impressive. None of them are Chris Paul's level of course, but neither do they command such a high expense.

Yeah, this is just an easy no for Miami. Wiggins doesn't help us win and he doesn't free up our cap. It's just a bad deal for us. He's not a good player and he makes wayyyyyyy too much cash...

Route Wiggins to OKC, get Paul to Miami where he belongs.

ecuhus1981 wrote:Route Wiggins to OKC, get Paul to Miami where he belongs.

What's Miami getting for giving up their flexibility and paying a 37 year old $44 million?

BBallFreak wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:Route Wiggins to OKC, get Paul to Miami where he belongs.

What's Miami getting for giving up their flexibility and paying a 37 year old $44 million?

You're seriously gonna leave the door wide open for me to make a sarcastic response, BBF? If I didn't like you so much...

Let me just say, I think all parties will be more amenable to this trade in about three weeks.

BBallFreak wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:Route Wiggins to OKC, get Paul to Miami where he belongs.

What's Miami getting for giving up their flexibility and paying a 37 year old $44 million?

Some see Miami getting a significantly better player than they give, that makes Miami better.

sonictecture wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:Route Wiggins to OKC, get Paul to Miami where he belongs.

What's Miami getting for giving up their flexibility and paying a 37 year old $44 million?

Some see Miami getting a significantly better player than they give, that makes Miami better.

What about the player Miami can get in 2021-22 for $44m?

sonictecture wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:Route Wiggins to OKC, get Paul to Miami where he belongs.

What's Miami getting for giving up their flexibility and paying a 37 year old $44 million?

Some see Miami getting a significantly better player than they give, that makes Miami better.

I don't see any argument that Wiggins is significantly better than Waiters and comparing him to JJ is apples and oranges.

jbk1234 wrote:

sonictecture wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:What's Miami getting for giving up their flexibility and paying a 37 year old $44 million?

Some see Miami getting a significantly better player than they give, that makes Miami better.

I don't see any argument that Wiggins is significantly better than Waiters and comparing him to JJ is apples and oranges.

No, they've moved on to Chris Paul. He's significantly better than what we give up, which is currently true. It's also true that he won't be healthy for at least 22 games, he'll be making $44 million when he's 37 and we would otherwise have cap space, and he's alienated every star player he's ever played with.

I wouldn't take him in Miami. I don't care if you offer me 4 first rounders, he wouldn't be on any roster I put together at this point. I recognize Pat Riley may think differently. I'm fine with that. But Riley is pretty damned shrewd and doesn't seem willing to make this move without incentive coming back his way, so I think my question is pretty fair; what's in it for Miami?

gom wrote:

sonictecture wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:What's Miami getting for giving up their flexibility and paying a 37 year old $44 million?

Some see Miami getting a significantly better player than they give, that makes Miami better.

What about the player Miami can get in 2021-22 for $44m?

Some people might feel the 2021-22 Summer free agency is part bluff for Miami.

Time is a factor for all teams.

If anyone in Miami was so sure FA was an unquestionable answer, then even two draft picks with Paul, wouldn’t be enough compensation to jeopardize it.

sonictecture wrote:

gom wrote:

sonictecture wrote:Some see Miami getting a significantly better player than they give, that makes Miami better.

What about the player Miami can get in 2021-22 for $44m?

Some people might feel the 2021-22 Summer free agency is part bluff for Miami.

Time is a factor for all teams.

If anyone in Miami was so sure FA was an unquestionable answer, then even two draft picks with Paul, wouldn’t be enough compensation to jeopardize it.

If you haven't noticed, one of the stipulations Miami has supposedly been putting on the deal for Paul is that he opt out of that year. It's not a sure thing, obviously, but it's also not worth giving up for a 37 year old Chris Paul...

BBallFreak wrote:

sonictecture wrote:

gom wrote:
What about the player Miami can get in 2021-22 for $44m?

Some people might feel the 2021-22 Summer free agency is part bluff for Miami.

Time is a factor for all teams.

If anyone in Miami was so sure FA was an unquestionable answer, then even two draft picks with Paul, wouldn’t be enough compensation to jeopardize it.

If you haven't noticed, one of the stipulations Miami has supposedly been putting on the deal for Paul is that he opt out of that year. It's not a sure thing, obviously, but it's also not worth giving up for a 37 year old Chris Paul...

So reported stipulations are first round picks and that Paul decline his player option? This for a player even you admit is better than what Miami might give up?

Can we agree that there are different versions of a potential Paul trade, where each team is asked to give something different?

When you say, “Riley might trade for Paul and I’m ok with it.” If you trust Riley, why are you so adamantly against Paul?

sonictecture wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

sonictecture wrote:Some people might feel the 2021-22 Summer free agency is part bluff for Miami.

Time is a factor for all teams.

If anyone in Miami was so sure FA was an unquestionable answer, then even two draft picks with Paul, wouldn’t be enough compensation to jeopardize it.

If you haven't noticed, one of the stipulations Miami has supposedly been putting on the deal for Paul is that he opt out of that year. It's not a sure thing, obviously, but it's also not worth giving up for a 37 year old Chris Paul...

So reported stipulations are first round picks and that Paul decline his player option? This for a player even you admit is better than what Miami might give up?

Yes, obviously. What don't you get about this? He's better now, but he may not be better a month from now.

Can we agree that there are different versions of a potential Paul trade, where each team is asked to give something different?

That seems pretty innocuous, so sure, I agree. OKC has asked Miami to give things up they don't want to give up, and Miami has asked OKC and CP to give up things they don't want to give up. That's how negotiations work.

When you say, “Riley might trade for Paul and I’m ok with it.” If you trust Riley, why are you so adamantly against Paul?

Riley's not infallible. I don't happen to agree with taking on Chris Paul. If we do it, I won't be thrilled, but Riley's earned the benefit of the doubt from me. I will also root like hell for Chris Paul to succeed. That doesn't mean I have to blindly follow Riley like a lemming just because he's Riley...

BBallFreak wrote:

sonictecture wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:If you haven't noticed, one of the stipulations Miami has supposedly been putting on the deal for Paul is that he opt out of that year. It's not a sure thing, obviously, but it's also not worth giving up for a 37 year old Chris Paul...

So reported stipulations are first round picks and that Paul decline his player option? This for a player even you admit is better than what Miami might give up?

Yes, obviously. What don't you get about this? He's better now, but he may not be better a month from now.

Can we agree that there are different versions of a potential Paul trade, where each team is asked to give something different?

That seems pretty innocuous, so sure, I agree. OKC has asked Miami to give things up they don't want to give up, and Miami has asked OKC and CP to give up things they don't want to give up. That's how negotiations work.

When you say, “Riley might trade for Paul and I’m ok with it.” If you trust Riley, why are you so adamantly against Paul?

Riley's not infallible. I don't happen to agree with taking on Chris Paul. If we do it, I won't be thrilled, but Riley's earned the benefit of the doubt from me. I will also root like hell for Chris Paul to succeed. That doesn't mean I have to blindly follow Riley like a lemming just because he's Riley...

Do you understand why Riley would consider taking on any and all risks, Paul brings?