Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21?

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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#21 » by HornetJail » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:21 am

Ask again after the playoffs. If they have major issues with spacing in the postseason, I guess Simmons could be traded, but otherwise I'd bet on whichever one of Horford/Harris struggles in the playoffs. I don't think either one is worth a ton at this point, but they could be swapped for another similarly overpaid sub-star player (or multiple lesser players) that fit better. idk who that would be though.

I think the Sixers end up staying the course and pay some luxury tax to improve, as long as they win at least one round and aren't destroyed too bad in the 2nd round.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#22 » by Ballerhogger » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:24 am

tobais pretty movable contract
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#23 » by NYG » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:50 am

This draft is weaker than usual at the top, is there some kind of trade like this available?

Ben Simmons to Warriors
D’Angelo Russell and Player Y (via Team X) to 76ers
(Al Horford or Tobias Harris) and 1st Overall to Team X

Ben Simmons next to Draymond Green with Splash Bros in the back-court is ridiculous.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#24 » by NoZoLakers » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:51 am

Harris
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#25 » by Pinkyring » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:59 am

I think if they see results theyll pay it next season but the following season it gets tough, they cant afford to keep Richardson and hes injury prone, they should try to get cheaper now at that spot
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#26 » by Prospect Dong » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 am

Ballerhogger wrote:tobais pretty movable contract


I think he's moveable, but if you wait till after this season - which is likely to be his best and cheapest on this contract - I'm not sure he's movable for value.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#27 » by Rockazoids » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:07 am

gambitx777 wrote:Played around with this deal earlier.
NYC get : Simmons and Scott
76 get : Barret , Robinson, and one of (Smith Jr or nitilikina or Knox) 2-4 firsts and 1-3 seconds.

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their picks. now DJS could be had for a couple of scratch-off lottery ticket and a bag of onion rings.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#28 » by vxmike » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:28 am

Harris is probably the guy they ought to move. Horford will be a lot more difficult. It’ll be a tough sell for anyone to take those lengthy contracts though...

Harris to OKC for CP3?
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#29 » by gambitx777 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:27 am

Green and simmons probably can play together. Imo
NYG wrote:This draft is weaker than usual at the top, is there some kind of trade like this available?

Ben Simmons to Warriors
D’Angelo Russell and Player Y (via Team X) to 76ers
(Al Horford or Tobias Harris) and 1st Overall to Team X

Ben Simmons next to Draymond Green with Splash Bros in the back-court is ridiculous.


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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#30 » by GutUNC » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:44 am

Prospect Dong wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Simmons may be an " all star " but the fit on the team is bad, embid is a complete player and Simmons isn't and he may never be current Simmons is not worth 29 mill on that team. So you either blow it up and build around Simmons. Or you trade Simmons and get some good pieces that fit right in , make another love or two and you don't miss to many beats and you're still contenders in the east with out Ben Simmons

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Or maybe....and hear me out on this....you give this new core more then 1/2 of 1 regular season before you declare it an unsalvageable failure. Especially considering they're undefeated against the East's top-2 seeds thus far. :dontknow:


I think that's fair, and this thread should really be about offseason moves, on the assumption that the sixers don't come close to winning it all this season.

But if they don't... in much the same way as trading significant assets for Jimmy and Tobias didn't imply a cast-iron commitment to keep them both at any cost, it's entirely possible that this version of the team has a one season expiration date, particularly if it doesn't perform up to expectations in the playoffs.

And I'd agree with others that, assuming you're sticking with a win-now objective and just don't want to pay tax for a team which is less than the sum of its high-cost parts, Simmons is the obvious candidate for a trade which could both save money and bring back lesser talent which might now win many less games.


Simmons is most definitely NOT the obvious candidate, in so much as one exists. The Simmons/Embiid starting lineup has been a 99th percentile lineup in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not the part you break up in some sort of 5 nickels for a quarter trade. If you can get the equivalent version of Simmons who's more of a standard offense initiator then so be it, but they didn't build all this up so they could dodge the tax and re-Hinkie things. Even if you think they should, ownership doesn't.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#31 » by GutUNC » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:50 am

gambitx777 wrote:I don't think anyone is saying the team is bad or unsalvageable. But, they issue isn't this year per say. The issue is Ben Simmons getting paid 29 million and won't shot an out side shot. He's on bad injury or 1 more non progressive season away from being a really bad contract. If you can get a haul for him now do it then you can maybe smash some of those picks together and maybe move Horford for someone like Dlo or holiday or something else, then you have another all star plus a couple good affordable young guys.
GutUNC wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Simmons may be an " all star " but the fit on the team is bad, embid is a complete player and Simmons isn't and he may never be current Simmons is not worth 29 mill on that team. So you either blow it up and build around Simmons. Or you trade Simmons and get some good pieces that fit right in , make another love or two and you don't miss to many beats and you're still contenders in the east with out Ben Simmons

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Or maybe....and hear me out on this....you give this new core more then 1/2 of 1 regular season before you declare it an unsalvageable failure. Especially considering they're undefeated against the East's top-2 seeds thus far. :dontknow:


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Simmons may be an " all star " but the fit on the team is bad, embid is a complete player and Simmons isn't and he may never be current Simmons is not worth 29 mill on that team. So you either blow it up and build around Simmons. Or you trade Simmons and get some good pieces that fit right in


So you're not saying the team is unsalvageable, just that their only 2 options are to either trade Simmons or trade everyone else but Simmons. :laugh: Got it.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#32 » by GutUNC » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:59 am

Pinkyring wrote:I think if they see results theyll pay it next season but the following season it gets tough, they cant afford to keep Richardson and hes injury prone, they should try to get cheaper now at that spot


No, you play it out through when Richardson's contract runs out and evaluate from there. Yes, it's a virtual impossibility to keep all 5 of these beyond next season but you have them locked in for 2 playoff runs. Richardson's current contract is a bargain, so I don't know why you'd want to go cheaper there.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#33 » by Aussiepiston1 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:28 am

I honestly believe that Philly knew that if it this team doesn’t make it far this year Simmons or Harris will be moved in the off season.
Maybe Harris gets moved to Portland for C.J McCollum or to Denver for Gary Harris and Jerami grant.
Teams wanted him last off season and I don’t think that will change this off season.
Simmons is the one who will be hard to move on from but if you get a godfather offer from a star desperate team you do it and build around Embiid and Harris.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#34 » by Prospect Dong » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:36 am

GutUNC wrote:
Prospect Dong wrote:
GutUNC wrote:

Or maybe....and hear me out on this....you give this new core more then 1/2 of 1 regular season before you declare it an unsalvageable failure. Especially considering they're undefeated against the East's top-2 seeds thus far. :dontknow:


I think that's fair, and this thread should really be about offseason moves, on the assumption that the sixers don't come close to winning it all this season.

But if they don't... in much the same way as trading significant assets for Jimmy and Tobias didn't imply a cast-iron commitment to keep them both at any cost, it's entirely possible that this version of the team has a one season expiration date, particularly if it doesn't perform up to expectations in the playoffs.

And I'd agree with others that, assuming you're sticking with a win-now objective and just don't want to pay tax for a team which is less than the sum of its high-cost parts, Simmons is the obvious candidate for a trade which could both save money and bring back lesser talent which might now win many less games.


Simmons is most definitely NOT the obvious candidate, in so much as one exists. The Simmons/Embiid starting lineup has been a 99th percentile lineup in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not the part you break up in some sort of 5 nickels for a quarter trade. If you can get the equivalent version of Simmons who's more of a standard offense initiator then so be it, but they didn't build all this up so they could dodge the tax and re-Hinkie things. Even if you think they should, ownership doesn't.


We'll know about ownership's willingness to pay a large luxury tax bill when they actually pay a large luxury tax bill, and not a moment before. But starting with the assumption that "they definitely don't care at all about luxury tax payments, even if the team is not performing to their expectations" sounds like a good way to end up disappointed.

As for Simmons, he's the obvious candidate because he's very, very good. That's also true of Embiid, probably with an additional 'very', which is why he's not the one you want to move. But if you move any of the other guys to cut costs - which is the assumption we're starting from here - you're going to get a lot worse on the court. Simmons, on the other hand, looks like he's giving the sixers less than he's capable of, and there are pretty obvious reasons why that might be true.

That means you could flip him, spend some of his value on getting payroll a bit lower, and still come out somewhere close to where you are now. I'm just not sure that's true of anyone else on the roster. Who would you trade to cut payroll by $10+ mil, if ownership doesn't miraculously turn out to be a bunch of success-indifferent money haters?
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#35 » by Pinkyring » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:39 am

GutUNC wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:I think if they see results theyll pay it next season but the following season it gets tough, they cant afford to keep Richardson and hes injury prone, they should try to get cheaper now at that spot


No, you play it out through when Richardson's contract runs out and evaluate from there. Yes, it's a virtual impossibility to keep all 5 of these beyond next season but you have them locked in for 2 playoff runs. Richardson's current contract is a bargain, so I don't know why you'd want to go cheaper there.

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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#36 » by GutUNC » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:47 am

Prospect Dong wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
Prospect Dong wrote:
I think that's fair, and this thread should really be about offseason moves, on the assumption that the sixers don't come close to winning it all this season.

But if they don't... in much the same way as trading significant assets for Jimmy and Tobias didn't imply a cast-iron commitment to keep them both at any cost, it's entirely possible that this version of the team has a one season expiration date, particularly if it doesn't perform up to expectations in the playoffs.

And I'd agree with others that, assuming you're sticking with a win-now objective and just don't want to pay tax for a team which is less than the sum of its high-cost parts, Simmons is the obvious candidate for a trade which could both save money and bring back lesser talent which might now win many less games.


Simmons is most definitely NOT the obvious candidate, in so much as one exists. The Simmons/Embiid starting lineup has been a 99th percentile lineup in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not the part you break up in some sort of 5 nickels for a quarter trade. If you can get the equivalent version of Simmons who's more of a standard offense initiator then so be it, but they didn't build all this up so they could dodge the tax and re-Hinkie things. Even if you think they should, ownership doesn't.


We'll know about ownership's willingness to pay a large luxury tax bill when they actually pay a large luxury tax bill, and not a moment before. But starting with the assumption that "they definitely don't care at all about luxury tax payments, even if the team is not performing to their expectations" sounds like a good way to end up disappointed.

As for Simmons, he's the obvious candidate because he's very, very good. That's also true of Embiid, probably with an additional 'very', which is why he's not the one you want to move. But if you move any of the other guys to cut costs - which is the assumption we're starting from here - you're going to get a lot worse on the court. Simmons, on the other hand, looks like he's giving the sixers less than he's capable of, and there are pretty obvious reasons why that might be true.

That means you could flip him, spend some of his value on getting payroll a bit lower, and still come out somewhere close to where you are now. I'm just not sure that's true of anyone else on the roster. Who would you trade to cut payroll by $10+ mil, if ownership doesn't miraculously turn out to be a bunch of success-indifferent money haters?


Fortunately, I never said "they definitely don't care at all about luxury tax payments". As stated before, they don't sign Horford and Harris this offseason if they're not comfortable going in to the tax. This wasn't some surprise development that has put them in a delicate spot - they simply don't sign off on one of those deals if they know at the time that it's unsustainable in 1 year and their hand is forced to move a Ben Simmons or swallow less value moving an expensive Horford or Harris.

I definitely don't see them ever being OK with being a heavy luxury tax team and don't see any circumstance where their starting 5 is still in tact after next season because of it. But if they weren't comfortable going into the tax at all, they simply couldn't make the 2 big signings they did in the summer. A+B=C there. Cashing in Simmons for a pile of lesser pieces instead of just staying away from Horford in the summer would be farcically bad planning.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#37 » by GutUNC » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:51 am

Pinkyring wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:I think if they see results theyll pay it next season but the following season it gets tough, they cant afford to keep Richardson and hes injury prone, they should try to get cheaper now at that spot


No, you play it out through when Richardson's contract runs out and evaluate from there. Yes, it's a virtual impossibility to keep all 5 of these beyond next season but you have them locked in for 2 playoff runs. Richardson's current contract is a bargain, so I don't know why you'd want to go cheaper there.

Because u dont lose a guy for nothing


If you're a contending team, you get your 2 playoff runs out of him and hope for the best. You don't go cheap and downgrade your talent. If you're a treadmill team, then sure.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#38 » by Prospect Dong » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:47 am

GutUNC wrote:
Prospect Dong wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
Simmons is most definitely NOT the obvious candidate, in so much as one exists. The Simmons/Embiid starting lineup has been a 99th percentile lineup in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not the part you break up in some sort of 5 nickels for a quarter trade. If you can get the equivalent version of Simmons who's more of a standard offense initiator then so be it, but they didn't build all this up so they could dodge the tax and re-Hinkie things. Even if you think they should, ownership doesn't.


We'll know about ownership's willingness to pay a large luxury tax bill when they actually pay a large luxury tax bill, and not a moment before. But starting with the assumption that "they definitely don't care at all about luxury tax payments, even if the team is not performing to their expectations" sounds like a good way to end up disappointed.

As for Simmons, he's the obvious candidate because he's very, very good. That's also true of Embiid, probably with an additional 'very', which is why he's not the one you want to move. But if you move any of the other guys to cut costs - which is the assumption we're starting from here - you're going to get a lot worse on the court. Simmons, on the other hand, looks like he's giving the sixers less than he's capable of, and there are pretty obvious reasons why that might be true.

That means you could flip him, spend some of his value on getting payroll a bit lower, and still come out somewhere close to where you are now. I'm just not sure that's true of anyone else on the roster. Who would you trade to cut payroll by $10+ mil, if ownership doesn't miraculously turn out to be a bunch of success-indifferent money haters?


Fortunately, I never said "they definitely don't care at all about luxury tax payments". As stated before, they don't sign Horford and Harris this offseason if they're not comfortable going in to the tax. This wasn't some surprise development that has put them in a delicate spot - they simply don't sign off on one of those deals if they know at the time that it's unsustainable in 1 year and their hand is forced to move a Ben Simmons or swallow less value moving an expensive Horford or Harris.

I definitely don't see them ever being OK with being a heavy luxury tax team and don't see any circumstance where their starting 5 is still in tact after next season because of it. But if they weren't comfortable going into the tax at all, they simply couldn't make the 2 big signings they did in the summer. A+B=C there. Cashing in Simmons for a pile of lesser pieces instead of just staying away from Horford in the summer would be farcically bad planning.


Similarly, there is now way Philly would trade assets for an expiring Jimmy Butler unless they were definitely going to keep him long term, regardless of what happened in the interim. Or possibly, just possibly, if they felt able to course correct the following offseason.

I think the same is true of this year's moves. It certainly signals a potential openness to paying the tax, though that almost certainly depends on the results, but it might also mean they're open to exactly the sort of move we're discussing here. There's no reason why your projected payroll more than a year out is the payroll you want, and certainly not the one you want regardless of results...
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#39 » by GutUNC » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:25 am

Prospect Dong wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
Prospect Dong wrote:
We'll know about ownership's willingness to pay a large luxury tax bill when they actually pay a large luxury tax bill, and not a moment before. But starting with the assumption that "they definitely don't care at all about luxury tax payments, even if the team is not performing to their expectations" sounds like a good way to end up disappointed.

As for Simmons, he's the obvious candidate because he's very, very good. That's also true of Embiid, probably with an additional 'very', which is why he's not the one you want to move. But if you move any of the other guys to cut costs - which is the assumption we're starting from here - you're going to get a lot worse on the court. Simmons, on the other hand, looks like he's giving the sixers less than he's capable of, and there are pretty obvious reasons why that might be true.

That means you could flip him, spend some of his value on getting payroll a bit lower, and still come out somewhere close to where you are now. I'm just not sure that's true of anyone else on the roster. Who would you trade to cut payroll by $10+ mil, if ownership doesn't miraculously turn out to be a bunch of success-indifferent money haters?


Fortunately, I never said "they definitely don't care at all about luxury tax payments". As stated before, they don't sign Horford and Harris this offseason if they're not comfortable going in to the tax. This wasn't some surprise development that has put them in a delicate spot - they simply don't sign off on one of those deals if they know at the time that it's unsustainable in 1 year and their hand is forced to move a Ben Simmons or swallow less value moving an expensive Horford or Harris.

I definitely don't see them ever being OK with being a heavy luxury tax team and don't see any circumstance where their starting 5 is still in tact after next season because of it. But if they weren't comfortable going into the tax at all, they simply couldn't make the 2 big signings they did in the summer. A+B=C there. Cashing in Simmons for a pile of lesser pieces instead of just staying away from Horford in the summer would be farcically bad planning.


Similarly, there is now way Philly would trade assets for an expiring Jimmy Butler unless they were definitely going to keep him long term, regardless of what happened in the interim. Or possibly, just possibly, if they felt able to course correct the following offseason.

I think the same is true of this year's moves. It certainly signals a potential openness to paying the tax, though that almost certainly depends on the results, but it might also mean they're open to exactly the sort of move we're discussing here. There's no reason why your projected payroll more than a year out is the payroll you want, and certainly not the one you want regardless of results...


The Jimmy Butler trade has/had nothing to do with the luxury tax so I’m not sure why you’d bring that up here. That was a mid season trade with equivalent money and no futures involved. Right/Wrong, that was simply a basketball decision from start to finish that had no commitment attached or implied from either party beyond that year. A complete trial run.
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Re: Who should the Sixers trade to avoid luxury tax in 20-21? 

Post#40 » by dakomish23 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:49 am

GeorgeMarcus wrote:Rather than making any huge deals, our best bet is to add 1 or 2 catch-and-shoot guys to compliment our existing core. We have a lot of draft stock to work with, as well as Thybulle (who I would rather hold on to).


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