Kings/Wolves The Usual Suspects

[Texas Chuck]

So Covington and Bjelica are very common names in trades on this board. Bogs too, though a bit less. Mostly with these three players going to contenders. But Kings and Wolves fans almost universally hate returns that neutral fans deem fair. So after listening to their responses, why not help each other and forget trading these guys for late 1sts/prospects.

Bjelica/Bogs

for

Covington

People can argue if incentive is required from either side, but the fits just make sense.

Shrink tells us over and over than they need Covington to implement the system. Well now they have even better shooters, Bogs gives them more playmaking from the wing. I think they should still pursue a Wiggins trade, but with Culver and Okogie they should be okay defensively on the wing and Bjelica is better defensively than you think.

Kings get a 3&D guy to play next to Barnes as interchangable forwards and Bagley is made a center full-time like I think he has to be in order to have the best chance of succeeding. Hield is now the unquestioned 2 guard and you have a core starting 5 locked up for at least 2 more years after this one to start adding pieces to.

So crazy or logical?

[Colbinii]

It is very logical but I'm under the impression the Wolves only move Covington at this point for [younger] players [prospects and picks].

I think the value is fine but it seems lateral for both squads.

[Texas Chuck]

I think the value is fine but it seems lateral for both squads.

Well that was my intention....

And I think both teams should strongly consider dealing these players for future value as well. But their fans definitely have a different take on what their teams should be doing and while I argue with them a lot, I do listen as well and try not to ignore what they are telling me so thought I'd try something different.

[shrink]

I think the value is fine but it seems lateral for both squads.

Well that was my intention....

And I think both teams should strongly consider dealing these players for future value as well. But their fans definitely have a different take on what their teams should be doing and while I argue with them a lot, I do listen as well and try not to ignore what they are telling me so thought I'd try something different.

One of the benefits of this board is that neutral fans provide an unbiased viewpoint, but at the same time, local fans usually have a better feel for the specifics of their individual team, particularly in less newsworthy markets.

A player’s value starts with what they are worth to that team, under those particular specifics. I see a lot of cookie-cutter Covington offers with the rationale as “you’re not contending, so give us your role-player cheap for any youth or picks.” When I see those, I try to give posters the benefit of the doubt, that they aren’t aware of the specifics, and aren’t just ignoring them. It’s understandable if they don’t know, since they have probably not listened to local interviews, podcasts, and management quotes, or studied the rotations like a local fan has done.

If you’d like to get a good feel for the direction of the Timberwolves, from Rosas to Towns to Dieng to Covington, I would recommend that you read Britt Robson’s article on David Vanterpool at the Athletic.

I get it, that in a vacuum, others may perceive Covington’s value to MIN to be low, because he just turned 29. However, except for Towns, he is likely the second most important player on this team, for Rosas to meet his goals of establishing an offensive and defensive identity, and establishing a system for development.

[kalenclayton]

I think the value is pretty good here. I just don’t think it’s the right time to do a move like this for the Kings. They have control over Bogi and one more year on Beli. This mostly just pertains to Bogdan though. He is 2 years younger than Cov, which may not seem like much, but it is to the young core. Cov could age out faster. Do I think it’s likely? Not really. But the risk is higher there. Couple that with the fact that the Kings’ perceived depth is not really good and you’ve got an even more top-heavy team (that really isn’t heavy at the top). This team has also been injury riddled and really needs to just play together for a longer time.

Potential lineup:
Fox-Joseph-Ferrell
Hield-Bazemore
Barnes-James
Covington-Tolliver
Bagley-Holmes-Dedmon-Giles

I this lineup has great spacing, but the defense is still going to get cut up on the interior. Bagley is not a 5... yet. He’s not ready to guard the bigger guys and he’s too inconsistent of a rim protector. The latter gets better every game because he just needs experience. The former is an issue because he’s just not all that strong right now.

In short, I’d rather stick with what the team has right now or move Bogi/Bjelica for youth/picks. Either that or just stay the course. This team needs to play it out.

[TheProdigy]

I think the value is pretty good here. I just don’t think it’s the right time to do a move like this for the Kings. They have control over Bogi and one more year on Beli. This mostly just pertains to Bogdan though. He is 2 years younger than Cov, which may not seem like much, but it is to the young core. Cov could age out faster. Do I think it’s likely? Not really. But the risk is higher there. Couple that with the fact that the Kings’ perceived depth is not really good and you’ve got an even more top-heavy team (that really isn’t heavy at the top). This team has also been injury riddled and really needs to just play together for a longer time.

Potential lineup:
Fox-Joseph-Ferrell
Hield-Bazemore
Barnes-James
Covington-Tolliver
Bagley-Holmes-Dedmon-Giles

I this lineup has great spacing, but the defense is still going to get cut up on the interior. Bagley is not a 5... yet. He’s not ready to guard the bigger guys and he’s too inconsistent of a rim protector. The latter gets better every game because he just needs experience. The former is an issue because he’s just not all that strong right now.

In short, I’d rather stick with what the team has right now or move Bogi/Bjelica for youth/picks. Either that or just stay the course. This team needs to play it out.

Great post. I agree the value is fair - Kings and Wolves just aren't good trade partners because both teams are pretty far away from competing for a championship. If a trade is needed, it probably makes more sense for both teams to trade away assets and accumulate draft picks as opposed to accelerating the time line.

I will say that it is a tempting trade though because I am a huge Bjelica fan.

[BoogieTime]

Bogdan is a lot more team controlled, and past rebuilding years

[Crives]

I like it for Minnesota.
If I’m the Kings I probably want to keep Bogdon, or add a third team to get a younger asset for Covington

[becorz]

As a Kings fan, I am in. My philosophy is that I would want the best player in a deal where two nickels are being traded for a dime. Covington is the best player in this deal and I think his skill set matches the Kings perfectly.

I am also of the opinion that Bagley should be starting at C with Barnes playing PF and this trade would make it happen with Covington at SF. Have Holmes come off the bench. I don't think other Kings fans will feel the same way (on Holmes)

[BullyKing]

As a Kings fan, I am in. My philosophy is that I would want the best player in a deal where two nickels are being traded for a dime. Covington is the best player in this deal and I think his skill set matches the Kings perfectly.

I am also of the opinion that Bagley should be starting at C with Barnes playing PF and this trade would make it happen with Covington at SF. Have Holmes come off the bench. I don't think other Kings fans will feel the same way (on Holmes)

Agree with pretty much everything you say here.

[HartfordWhalers]

As a Kings fan, I am in. My philosophy is that I would want the best player in a deal where two nickels are being traded for a dime. Covington is the best player in this deal and I think his skill set matches the Kings perfectly.

I am also of the opinion that Bagley should be starting at C with Barnes playing PF and this trade would make it happen with Covington at SF. Have Holmes come off the bench. I don't think other Kings fans will feel the same way (on Holmes)

Agree with pretty much everything you say here.

Thirded. Although... I really do like the idea of tearing it all down, trading away the Dedmon's, the Bjelicas, the Bogs, the Barnes, and watching a team sink (or swim) with Fox/Bagley... oh, I guess I just traded Hield too.

[BullyKing]

As a Kings fan, I am in. My philosophy is that I would want the best player in a deal where two nickels are being traded for a dime. Covington is the best player in this deal and I think his skill set matches the Kings perfectly.

I am also of the opinion that Bagley should be starting at C with Barnes playing PF and this trade would make it happen with Covington at SF. Have Holmes come off the bench. I don't think other Kings fans will feel the same way (on Holmes)

Agree with pretty much everything you say here.

Thirded. Although... I really do like the idea of tearing it all down, trading away the Dedmon's, the Bjelicas, the Bogs, the Barnes, and watching a team sink (or swim) with Fox/Bagley... oh, I guess I just traded Hield too.

I was talking more about the general philosophies he advocating about always feeling good about consolidating the value of multiple players into one and that Bagley, if he's going to succeed, needs to be at center.

Not to derail this into a what should the Kings do thread but I actually think they should wait one more year before tearing it down. They looked like a really promising up and coming team last year. They hired a terrible coach, have a terrible GM, and a have horrible impatient owner. The last one is not likely to change. But I'd replace the other two and give it one more year to see if Fox and/or Bagley makes a jump that changes the trajectory/timeline. If not, burn it down then and I doubt they'll have lost much of any value in the interim.

[LightTheBeam]

I love Covington, I have no problem moving Bogdan in this deal. Just not sure hes worth both of them. To me Covington is better than Bogdan, but is that difference really Bjelica? I don't think anyone else we have to offer really makes up the value, but I also don't think Bjelica is the right player.

That said, I accept that I'm much higher on Bjelica than most of this board. Hes a sniper, great basketball IQ, plays tough defense, can pass. Hes probably been our best player this year, without him we would likely be at 10 wins. Hes the kind of player who never hurts you or makes mistakes.

Id counter with Bogdan, Yogi, and as many 2nds as they want. Can also include Giles if that helps at all.

Bagley/Holmes
Barnes/Bjelica
Covington/Barnes
Buddy/Bazemore
Fox/Joseph

[LightTheBeam]

Agree with pretty much everything you say here.

Thirded. Although... I really do like the idea of tearing it all down, trading away the Dedmon's, the Bjelicas, the Bogs, the Barnes, and watching a team sink (or swim) with Fox/Bagley... oh, I guess I just traded Hield too.

I was talking more about the general philosophies he advocating about always feeling good about consolidating the value of multiple players into one and that Bagley, if he's going to succeed, needs to be at center.

Not to derail this into a what should the Kings do thread but I actually think they should wait one more year before tearing it down. They looked like a really promising up and coming team last year. They hired a terrible coach, have a terrible GM, and a have horrible impatient owner. The last one is not likely to change. But I'd replace the other two and give it one more year to see if Fox and/or Bagley makes a jump that changes the trajectory/timeline. If not, burn it down then and I doubt they'll have lost much of any value in the interim.

Agreed with this. Except I think they are going to keep Vlade/Walton one more year regardless if thats the right choice or not.

Injuries derailed our season. Losing Fox/Bagley, then Bogdan and Holmes. Now Bagley/Holmes. We cant seem to have our best players sharing the court EVER. Thats magnified with the new coach and identity.

I'm not one to defend Walton, I've seen him make a ton of mistakes. But I also don't think hes as bad as hes been. I have to give him some slack due to the injuries. I'm hoping we get Bagley/Holmes back soon and we can at least see what this team looks like healthy for 30 games.

[becorz]

That said, I accept that I'm much higher on Bjelica than most of this board. Hes a sniper, great basketball IQ, plays tough defense, can pass. Hes probably been our best player this year, without him we would likely be at 10 wins. Hes the kind of player who never hurts you or makes mistakes.

I absolutely love Bjelica. I think he has a little bit of an attitude, which I think this team lacks, and he is a floor spacing PF, which everyone needs. But I also have him as being a replaceable player on a good team. I think on a good team, he comes off the bench. Therefore, I have no problem giving him up here.

Not to derail this into a what should the Kings do thread but I actually think they should wait one more year before tearing it down. They looked like a really promising up and coming team last year. They hired a terrible coach, have a terrible GM, and a have horrible impatient owner. The last one is not likely to change. But I'd replace the other two and give it one more year to see if Fox and/or Bagley makes a jump that changes the trajectory/timeline. If not, burn it down then and I doubt they'll have lost much of any value in the interim.

Walton and Divac are both on contracts that run through the 22/23 season. They both have a lot of years left. I think that Vivek has been given enough crap for being impatient that he will choose to stick with the duo for at least another year.

In all honesty, I understand a majority of Vlade's player moves since the Cousins trade. I (along with literally everyone) didn't understand firing Joerger for Walton. Walton has made a ton of questionable coaching decisions (playing a slow style, flat out bench Dedmon, etc) that have made Vlade's moves look bad. If the Kings did anything, I get rid of Walton. But I think he will stick with them for at least another year.

Back to this trade, it makes the Kings a better team, so make it. Don't worry about yachting but how the team gets better.

[Beam Me Up Foxy]

I still prefer the status quo over this deal. I think bogey and belly give a more unique dynamic to our roster. While Covington may be better he's not That much better where his overlapping skillset to our most expensive player makes this deal worth it to me. I'd stick with what we've got over this deal at this time.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk