[ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder

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[ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#1 » by getrichordie » Tue May 26, 2020 10:20 am

I STILL KNOW WHAT THEY SHOULD DO THIS SUMMER (or ISKWTSDTS)

4-year salary breakdown ($103.7M, $54M, $6.2M, $0M):
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/yearly/cap/



draft picks (next 5 years):
Spoiler:
2020 1st (via DEN; prot. 1-10)
2020 2nd (via CHI; prot. 31-55)
2020 2nd (own)

2021 1st x 2 (two most favorable of OKC, HOU [prot. 1-4], and MIA)
2021 1st (own)
2021 2nd (own)

2022 1st (own; traded to ATL; prot. 1-14)
2022 1st (via LAC)
2022 1st (own)
2022 2nd (own)

2023 1st (own; right to swap w/ LAC)
2023 1st (via MIA; prot. 1-14 for '23, '24, '25, unprot. in '26)
2023 2nd (own)

2024 1st (own)
2024 1st (via HOU; prot. 1-4; if not conveyed, HOU sends '24 SRP + '25 SRP)
2024 1st (via LAC)
2024 2nd (via MEM)
2024 2nd (own)



depth chart

paul // schroder
gilgeous-alexander // paul // diallo
dort // ferguson // diallo
bazley // roby
adams // x



ufa: gallinari, noel, nader (t.o.), burton (t.o.), roberson



What the Thunder should do about...

PAUL— The Thunder have a decision to make. Keep Chris Paul and his $85M+ owed over the next 2 years or seek to trade him and offload that money. I think the decision is an easy one and they should seek to trade him. The Thunder aren't in a great position to truly contend at the moment and with it being reported that Presti is looking to take on bad contracts for assets, the plan is clear: rebuild.

GALLINARI— Gallinari has been great for us, but he's an UFA which leads to the Thunder having an interesting decision to make. They can enjoy a lower salary bill or choose to re-sign an almost 32 y.o. Gallinari who has missed over 100 games combined in the previous 5 years (or 20 games a season on average). If you can re-sign Gallinari for a reasonable and team-friendly deal, you do it. If not, let him walk and enjoy the money saved. Another thing we must consider here is how high we want our pick to be next year in what projects to be a really good draft.

NOEL— Noel has showed out this season on both ends of the floor. There's still questions about whether or not he can be a starting 5 in OKC, and I think he can and should if and/or when Adams walks. Noel lines up with where the league is going and has earned the right at another shot at being a full-time starter. I think he is clearly a candidate we should re-sign.

NADER, BURTON, & ROBERSON— Nader has played solid for us as a bench wing and I think he gives us clear value going forward as a guy who can step in and give a little 3&D as a combo-F. Positional versatility and improvement this year open up talks about extending contract, IMO. --- Burton played quite awful this year, though his highlight plays can be quite fun to watch. I think the experiment has come to an end for the gentleman who was picked up out of desperation. Decline the team option. --- Roberson has been such a key piece for the Thunder over the years and it is unfortunate he suffered a bad knee injury. I see Presti doing him a favor and signing him to a cheap deal even if it is as a consummate professional and teammate to mentor the kids.

SCHRODER and ADAMS— Both Schroder and Adams will be entering into the final year of their respective contracts. Both players still hold value in a vacuum, but when contracts are taken into account, it might be a different story. It might be more difficult to find a suitor for Adams since he'll be getting paid a hefty $27.5M as opposed to Schroder's $15.5M. I'd wager that the potential 6MOY, Schroder, is easier to move at $15.5M. Still, a decision must be made to not trade or to trade Adams and Schroder. I'm in favor keeping Schroder for the long-haul and moving Adams, but willing to move either/or if price is right.

FERGUSON, DIALLO, ROBY, & BAZLEY— One of the easier decisions for the Thunder is to pick up the option on Diallo. He won't turn 22 until mid-June and has shown defensive chops and some offensive flashes, though has his work cut out for him on that end. --- Ferguson, in his contract year, has a lot of incentive to show a lot of improvement this year. Play him as much minutes as possible before deadline and make a determination on him then. --- Bazley has shown a ton of defensive potential and a lot to like on the offensive end moving forward. You have to wonder if it is best just to give him starter minutes and see what he can do. Just give the guy minutes. --- Let's get Roby a small, consistent role, at least. Fifteen minutes a game shouldn't be too hard to figure out. We need to see what we have.

GILGEOUS-ALEXANDER— Last but certainly not least, it's time to talk about S. G. A. He has been outstanding. Last year, in LAC, he showed us some great defense coupled with offensive flashes; this year, in OKC, he has showed us great offense but his defense suffered. It happens but still somewhat concerning given that his USG% was only ~24%. Although he improved in several areas including aggressiveness, limiting turnovers and fouls, he needs to develop his decision-making and guard skills even further after posting a paltry 17.8 ASTr last year and an even worse 14.8 ASTr this year. His AST/TO rate has hovered around 1.8-1.9 both years. While he needs to improve in this area, he still needs to develop his off-ball skills, which is another reason why I think we need to keep Schroder around for the foreseeable future. Shai effectively becomes a RFA at the completion of the 2021-2022 season so we only have 2 years to see if he is made of star stuff. We must remember that he's younger than Diallo by a whole month. Crazy. Still, it’s time to take the training wheels off and move Paul out of the way and put the ball in his hands even more.



strategy outlook: In short, the Thunder need to get off Paul's salary and either let Gallinari walk or sign and flip him at deadline. We need to be bad next year so we get the highest possible pick. If viable, move Adams to a team with cap space or looking to unload a undesirable contract for additional assets. Keep our cheap guys in Noel and Nader and possibly Roberson. With newfound cap space after a Paul and/or Adams trade, sign a few potentially valuable vets (anything but points) and attempt to flip them to contenders at the deadline for assets + take a swing on young, undervalued players who might need change of scenery.



draft strategy: OKC currently holds the 25th overall pick in the 2020 NBA Draft. I suspect that we could easily move that pick to get off of Paul's $85M+. The hope is to be able to send his salary to someone else, after all. However, if we keep the pick, I believe we should target the BPA, regardless of roster construction. We are looking for the most possible value here, even if it's a draft-and-stash guy; I mean, what's the rush? We are rebuilding. Same goes for our second rounder.



f.a. targets: paul millsap, aron baynes, wesley matthews, kent bazemore, marcus morris, jae crowder, john henson, harry giles, stanley johnson, rondae hollis-jefferson, furkan korkmaz, josh jackson
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#2 » by getrichordie » Tue May 26, 2020 12:45 pm

TRADES

trade #1

OKC receives (out: $43.1M // in: $29.2M)
randle ($18.9M, $18.9M, ufa)
smith jr. ($5.7M, rfa) --- does DET want him for free?
kevin knox ($4.6M, $5.8M, rfa)

NYK receives (out: $29.2M // in: $43.1M )
paul ($41.4M, $44.2M, ufa)
diallo ($1.7M, rfa)
#25
2024 2nd (via MEM)


post-transaction payroll for 2020-21 = ~$90M

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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#3 » by loserX » Tue May 26, 2020 4:01 pm

(Added to master list, thanks!)
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#4 » by TPV » Wed May 27, 2020 1:03 am

getrichordie wrote:TRADES

trade #1

OKC receives (out: $43.1M // in: $29.2M)
randle ($18.9M, $18.9M, ufa)
smith jr. ($5.7M, rfa) --- does DET want him for free?
kevin knox ($4.6M, $5.8M, rfa)

NYK receives (out: $29.2M // in: $43.1M )
paul ($41.4M, $44.2M, ufa)
diallo ($1.7M, rfa)
#25
2024 2nd (via MEM)


post-transaction payroll for 2020-21 = ~$90M



I don't think you'd need a pick to dump Paul's contract. I think he has more value at his salary than those trio of players, even at his age. There's still a lot of on-court value there, while Randle, Smith, and Knox aren't likely going to be key pieces for OKC moving forward.

I'd say Randle, Smith and Knox for Paul straight up works well.


Also, I don't think
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#5 » by getrichordie » Wed May 27, 2020 1:05 am

TPV wrote:
getrichordie wrote:TRADES

trade #1

OKC receives (out: $43.1M // in: $29.2M)
randle ($18.9M, $18.9M, ufa)
smith jr. ($5.7M, rfa) --- does DET want him for free?
kevin knox ($4.6M, $5.8M, rfa)

NYK receives (out: $29.2M // in: $43.1M )
paul ($41.4M, $44.2M, ufa)
diallo ($1.7M, rfa)
#25
2024 2nd (via MEM)


post-transaction payroll for 2020-21 = ~$90M



I don't think you'd need a pick to dump Paul's contract. I think he has more value at his salary than those trio of players, even at his age. There's still a lot of on-court value there, while Randle, Smith, and Knox aren't likely going to be key pieces for OKC moving forward.

I'd say Randle, Smith and Knox for Paul straight up works well.


Also, I don't think


Is that right? :lol:

You think they don't need a pick to get off Paul's $85M? He just turned 35. Idk. I tend to be safer rather than sorry and tend to think it is going to cost something to get off that money.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#6 » by Godaddycurse » Wed May 27, 2020 3:13 am

I think OKC should embrace the winning rather than tank. People tank in order to get a franchise player but I would say you already have that in SGA. He and Paul is a great backcourt and you have more than enough draft capital moving forward. Once Adam expire you can bring in a max FA to team up with them 2 for a solid contender imo. Paul will then expire the year after and you can get another max FA at that point.

Not going to lie though, I also just want to see OKC continue to win despite westbrook/george leaving them. Take that big (american) markets :)
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#7 » by tobysunsfan » Wed May 27, 2020 3:53 am

They should just keep CP3 unless some team bites and they get value out of him. When he becomes an expiring you can trade his contract for a star who's on huge money, they'll have the talent/picks to trade with it. I wouldn't trade him for expiring right now, especially seeing the big positive impact he's had on SGA and OKC as a whole. He's still a star and stars are hard to come by.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#8 » by TPV » Wed May 27, 2020 2:52 pm

getrichordie wrote:
TPV wrote:
getrichordie wrote:TRADES

trade #1

OKC receives (out: $43.1M // in: $29.2M)
randle ($18.9M, $18.9M, ufa)
smith jr. ($5.7M, rfa) --- does DET want him for free?
kevin knox ($4.6M, $5.8M, rfa)

NYK receives (out: $29.2M // in: $43.1M )
paul ($41.4M, $44.2M, ufa)
diallo ($1.7M, rfa)
#25
2024 2nd (via MEM)


post-transaction payroll for 2020-21 = ~$90M



I don't think you'd need a pick to dump Paul's contract. I think he has more value at his salary than those trio of players, even at his age. There's still a lot of on-court value there, while Randle, Smith, and Knox aren't likely going to be key pieces for OKC moving forward.

I'd say Randle, Smith and Knox for Paul straight up works well.


Also, I don't think


Is that right? :lol:

You think they don't need a pick to get off Paul's $85M? He just turned 35. Idk. I tend to be safer rather than sorry and tend to think it is going to cost something to get off that money.


Whoops, darned unfinished sentences. :lol:

I think Paul gives so much value right now in terms of on-court production that OKC shouldn't have to pay to get off the contract. And if not now, then later on in the contract when it becomes shorter. Currently, I don't see it the contract as needing a first rounder to get off of in this case where Randle, Smith and Knox are negative value combined.

Yes, his production could fall off a cliff at any time during the remaining time of the contract. And I think more importantly, is your point of needing to be bad to get the best 2021 pick possible. If those things are a priority, then I totally get why adding the draft picks in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter if it gives OKC a clearer direction.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#9 » by getrichordie » Wed May 27, 2020 4:11 pm

TPV wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
TPV wrote:
I don't think you'd need a pick to dump Paul's contract. I think he has more value at his salary than those trio of players, even at his age. There's still a lot of on-court value there, while Randle, Smith, and Knox aren't likely going to be key pieces for OKC moving forward.

I'd say Randle, Smith and Knox for Paul straight up works well.


Also, I don't think


Is that right? :lol:

You think they don't need a pick to get off Paul's $85M? He just turned 35. Idk. I tend to be safer rather than sorry and tend to think it is going to cost something to get off that money.


Whoops, darned unfinished sentences. :lol:

I think Paul gives so much value right now in terms of on-court production that OKC shouldn't have to pay to get off the contract. And if not now, then later on in the contract when it becomes shorter. Currently, I don't see it the contract as needing a first rounder to get off of in this case where Randle, Smith and Knox are negative value combined.

Yes, his production could fall off a cliff at any time during the remaining time of the contract. And I think more importantly, is your point of needing to be bad to get the best 2021 pick possible. If those things are a priority, then I totally get why adding the draft picks in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter if it gives OKC a clearer direction.


I don’t think his production will fall off a cliff while on court, but I think the risk of having a player sitting on a mountain of $85M while sidelined with an injury is enough to warrant asking for a pick. If Paul was making closer to $30-35M/yr for next 2 years, I don’t think the pick is included.

But yeah, I’m in favor of this direction, personally.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#10 » by E S V L » Wed May 27, 2020 8:58 pm

Why is it necessary to move Paul? Please kill me I don`t understand. OKL is targeting Davis and Giannis? What do they need so much cap for?
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#11 » by getrichordie » Wed May 27, 2020 9:14 pm

E S V L wrote:Why is it necessary to move Paul? Please kill me I don`t understand. OKL is targeting Davis and Giannis? What do they need so much cap for?


He's not part of OKC's long-term or short-term plans. He's 35 and we want to build w/ Shai (not around him). Who said anything about OKC targeting Davis and Giannis. I laid out the strategy in the OP. Did you read it?
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#12 » by E S V L » Wed May 27, 2020 9:30 pm

getrichordie wrote:
E S V L wrote:Why is it necessary to move Paul? Please kill me I don`t understand. OKL is targeting Davis and Giannis? What do they need so much cap for?


He's not part of OKC's long-term or short-term plans. He's 35 and we want to build w/ Shai (not around him). Who said anything about OKC targeting Davis and Giannis. I laid out the strategy in the OP. Did you read it?


It hasn’t been addressed you personally. My point is that OKC should keep Paul and wait for good trade opportunities while building the roster around Shai through the upcoming drafts.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#13 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Wed May 27, 2020 9:32 pm

I do think you need a pick or two to unload Paul. I don't think most fans care to be in-tune with the financials of teams, and prefer to ignore that facet. Very few owners are going to sign up for 85 million of Chris Paul, especially in this unknown financial climate.

I think teams are going to be looking to dump salary where possible, which makes trading him even tougher.

The other thing I think they should do is package those picks and try and get another elite talent in the draft. Maybe this summer, maybe next, but they should have an opportunity at some point to get a stud if it means trading 3-4 future picks, which they should do.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#14 » by getrichordie » Wed May 27, 2020 9:34 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I do think you need a pick or two to unload Paul. I don't think most fans care to be in-tune with the financials of teams, and prefer to ignore that facet. Very few owners are going to sign up for 85 million of Chris Paul, especially in this unknown financial climate.

I think teams are going to be looking to dump salary where possible, which makes trading him even tougher.

The other thing I think they should do is package those picks and try and get another elite talent in the draft. Maybe this summer, maybe next, but they should have an opportunity at some point to get a stud if it means trading 3-4 future picks, which they should do.


I agree with you on this and I think we should heavily consider it in next year's draft if it is indeed as strong as it is hyped.

This is why there should be a lot of impetus for trading Paul on our end and tanking this year.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#15 » by getrichordie » Wed May 27, 2020 9:35 pm

E S V L wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
E S V L wrote:Why is it necessary to move Paul? Please kill me I don`t understand. OKL is targeting Davis and Giannis? What do they need so much cap for?


He's not part of OKC's long-term or short-term plans. He's 35 and we want to build w/ Shai (not around him). Who said anything about OKC targeting Davis and Giannis. I laid out the strategy in the OP. Did you read it?


It hasn’t been addressed you personally. My point is that OKC should keep Paul and wait for good trade opportunities while building the roster around Shai through the upcoming drafts.


What trade opportunities? What do you have in mind? When? He's 35. Why chance him getting injured and it tanking his value?
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#16 » by E S V L » Wed May 27, 2020 9:48 pm

getrichordie wrote:
E S V L wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
He's not part of OKC's long-term or short-term plans. He's 35 and we want to build w/ Shai (not around him). Who said anything about OKC targeting Davis and Giannis. I laid out the strategy in the OP. Did you read it?


It hasn’t been addressed you personally. My point is that OKC should keep Paul and wait for good trade opportunities while building the roster around Shai through the upcoming drafts.


What trade opportunities? What do you have in mind? When? He's 35. Why chance him getting injured and it tanking his value?


1. Every NBA player is under the risk of injury.
2. Regarding trade opportunities, next year Paul’s contract will look less horrifying. You may trade him for 0 costs. Also, to be effective, Paul doesn’t require speed, so he may keep his level of performance in 1-2 years. If so, some teams may decide to trade for a good vet, e.g. Minnesota, Chicago, or even Golden State - you never know where teams may end up in 1 year time in terms of their needs. I would take this chance given Paul isn’t hurting Shai’s development.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#17 » by getrichordie » Wed May 27, 2020 9:50 pm

E S V L wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
E S V L wrote:
It hasn’t been addressed you personally. My point is that OKC should keep Paul and wait for good trade opportunities while building the roster around Shai through the upcoming drafts.


What trade opportunities? What do you have in mind? When? He's 35. Why chance him getting injured and it tanking his value?


1. Every NBA player is under the risk of injury.
2. Regarding trade opportunities, next year Paul’s contract will look less horrifying. You may trade him for 0 costs. Also, to be effective, Paul doesn’t require speed, so he may keep his level of performance in 1-2 years. If so, some teams may decide to trade for a good vet, e.g. Minnesota, Chicago, or even Golden State - you never know where teams may end up in 1 year time in terms of their needs. I would take this chance given Paul isn’t hurting Shai’s development.


Regardless of all of the above, it doesn't fit the direction I proposed.

Your number 1 is obvious. But the risk of injury is a little different when you are talking about a THIRTY-FIVE year old who has a history of being injured often. Especially in playoffs.

The number 25 pick in this draft is nothing to us since we have so many assets.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#18 » by E S V L » Thu May 28, 2020 1:35 am

getrichordie wrote:
E S V L wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
What trade opportunities? What do you have in mind? When? He's 35. Why chance him getting injured and it tanking his value?


1. Every NBA player is under the risk of injury.
2. Regarding trade opportunities, next year Paul’s contract will look less horrifying. You may trade him for 0 costs. Also, to be effective, Paul doesn’t require speed, so he may keep his level of performance in 1-2 years. If so, some teams may decide to trade for a good vet, e.g. Minnesota, Chicago, or even Golden State - you never know where teams may end up in 1 year time in terms of their needs. I would take this chance given Paul isn’t hurting Shai’s development.


Regardless of all of the above, it doesn't fit the direction I proposed.

Your number 1 is obvious. But the risk of injury is a little different when you are talking about a THIRTY-FIVE year old who has a history of being injured often. Especially in playoffs.

The number 25 pick in this draft is nothing to us since we have so many assets.


You’ve convinced me.

Wanna trade Paul and Adams for Jones, Anderson, Guduric, Djeng, and Valancuinas?
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#19 » by getrichordie » Thu May 28, 2020 1:41 am

E S V L wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
E S V L wrote:
1. Every NBA player is under the risk of injury.
2. Regarding trade opportunities, next year Paul’s contract will look less horrifying. You may trade him for 0 costs. Also, to be effective, Paul doesn’t require speed, so he may keep his level of performance in 1-2 years. If so, some teams may decide to trade for a good vet, e.g. Minnesota, Chicago, or even Golden State - you never know where teams may end up in 1 year time in terms of their needs. I would take this chance given Paul isn’t hurting Shai’s development.


Regardless of all of the above, it doesn't fit the direction I proposed.

Your number 1 is obvious. But the risk of injury is a little different when you are talking about a THIRTY-FIVE year old who has a history of being injured often. Especially in playoffs.

The number 25 pick in this draft is nothing to us since we have so many assets.


You’ve convinced me.

Wanna trade Paul and Adams for Jones, Anderson, Guduric, Djeng, and Valancuinas?


I mean. A third team would have to be involved. I'd rather get picks/prospects back for Anderson and Dieng. Would like to keep Tyus and Valanciunas.
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Re: [ISKWTSDTS] Oklahoma City Thunder 

Post#20 » by bondom34 » Thu May 28, 2020 4:52 am

Ultimately I'm still of the thought this season hurt them in some ways in the long run but it might not if they can move some guys. Basic ideas:

1. Don't spend assets to move Paul, if he's stuck too bad.

2. Move Schroder if any asset or neutral value is available.

3. Gallo can walk.

4. If you can package salary and a future pick for some promising youth, go for it. I'm still not against Gordon or Markkanen.
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