Dubs off season rebuild

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Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#1 » by radtech » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:21 pm

Dubs in this scenario win the first pick in the draft and decide to trade with the Knicks for the 6th pick, 27th pick and the 38th pick. I would have preferred a future protected lottery pick like in 2014, the Dubs traded a 1st to rid themselves of Iggys contract to MEM, so the Dubs can replace that pick.

6th pick- Deni Avdija, SF, a play maker who moves well off ball
27th pick- Leandro Bolamro, SF/SG, another play making wing they will stash overseas
38th pick- Daniel Oturu, C, still developing young big

Dubs also trade Looney to the Knicks for Frank Ntilkina

Why the trade for Ntilkina, defensively already a plus defender as soon as he entered the league. Dubs rank dead last in defense last year. Klay is coming off his ACL injury and needs more rest. Ntilkina compares to Iggy defensively, is another ball handler, and offers more size at the guard position. His offensive hopefully becomes more like Livingston, and lives of out short jumpers and drives to the rim.

The trade exceptions, $17.2, DeWayne Dedmon remains an option in standard leagues due to what he brings to the table as a rebounder and shot blocker. Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2021/22. His contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by July 7, 2021. Can stretch the floor a little bit as well.

Dubs also trade Poole to the Pistons for a future second round pick to create space for Ntilkina.

Dubs add another play maker and 2 stud defenders.

Was not a fan of the Wiggins trade at first until reading more about how the 2021 draft is filled with many talented wings the Dubs can get with Wolves pick. The Wolves will not make the playoffs no matter who they draft with KAT and DLo as their worst defenders. The Dubs could pick someone pretty special in that draft.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#2 » by Rockazoids » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:07 pm

Nope, the Knicks can sit were they are at and pickup a PG anywhere pk 1 - pk 10. Also there is no reason for the Knicks to trade
Ntilkina for Looney and his extra year just for the hell of it.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#3 » by azwfan » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:01 pm

radtech wrote:Dubs in this scenario win the first pick in the draft and decide to trade with the Knicks for the 6th pick, 27th pick and the 38th pick. I would have preferred a future protected lottery pick like in 2014, the Dubs traded a 1st to rid themselves of Iggys contract to MEM, so the Dubs can replace that pick.

6th pick- Deni Avdija, SF, a play maker who moves well off ball
27th pick- Leandro Bolamro, SF/SG, another play making wing they will stash overseas
38th pick- Daniel Oturu, C, still developing young big

Dubs also trade Looney to the Knicks for Frank Ntilkina

Why the trade for Ntilkina, defensively already a plus defender as soon as he entered the league. Dubs rank dead last in defense last year. Klay is coming off his ACL injury and needs more rest. Ntilkina compares to Iggy defensively, is another ball handler, and offers more size at the guard position. His offensive hopefully becomes more like Livingston, and lives of out short jumpers and drives to the rim.

The trade exceptions, $17.2, DeWayne Dedmon remains an option in standard leagues due to what he brings to the table as a rebounder and shot blocker. Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2021/22. His contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by July 7, 2021. Can stretch the floor a little bit as well.

Dubs also trade Poole to the Pistons for a future second round pick to create space for Ntilkina.

Dubs add another play maker and 2 stud defenders.

Was not a fan of the Wiggins trade at first until reading more about how the 2021 draft is filled with many talented wings the Dubs can get with Wolves pick. The Wolves will not make the playoffs no matter who they draft with KAT and DLo as their worst defenders. The Dubs could pick someone pretty special in that draft.

If GSW is trading down it should be only for immediate help (vets) and/or future picks. We don't need more roster clutter deep in this draft. Those may be great selections (i don't know) but the idea that we're getting much better by grabbing those guys (Oturo, Bolmaro) rather than the clutter we already have, seems overly optimistic.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#4 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:22 pm

I am no Ntilkina believer, but Looney alone doesn't get that done. I thin 38 would have to be going to NYK as well, possibly also Ky Bowman.

Why not do Looney for Bullock? It alleviates the GSW mediocre big logjam and gets them a veteran 3/D.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#5 » by VDT » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:32 pm

radtech wrote:Dubs in this scenario win the first pick in the draft and decide to trade with the Knicks for the 6th pick, 27th pick and the 38th pick.



Lol, solid basis for your proposal.
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Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#6 » by vetmin » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:52 am

Rockazoids wrote:Nope, the Knicks can sit were they are at and pickup a PG anywhere pk 1 - pk 10. Also there is no reason for the Knicks to trade
Ntilkina for Looney and his extra year just for the hell of it.

Re: Knicks: Lamelo is pretty much the consensus best PG in the draft, and he may very well go 1st, so it’s not the craziest premise that the Knicks might want to trade up for him. Beyond bball too, he’d be good for business, since NYK has been pretty dull and without personality since at least Porzingis, if not (Car)Melo.

To OP: This isn’t so crazy of an offseason, but the guy above who said we (GSW) don’t need the roster clutter of those later picks is right. We’re kinda set on our 1st-string (Steph, Klay, Wiggs, Draymond) and 3rd-string guys (Lee, Smailagic, Poole — all 3 of whom I’m low on but are not likely to be given up on yet, for varying reasons — and probably Mulder). What we need are a few more actual rotation guys (beyond Chriss, Looney, and Paschall), preferably vets. Except for our high pick we don’t have room for rookies.

To me, the dream is snagging Josh Richardson into the TPE from a financially desperate Sixers FO, but I like Ntilikina as a poor man’s Richardson who could turn into a Chriss-esque reclamation. The obvious thing would be to just make him part of the trade down with NYK, hopefully in exchange for Poole [does that work? If not TPE is there]. Unlikely they get away from Looney just yet as he’s built up some equity with the FO and I expect they’ll give his health another shot.

You mention Dedmon for the TPE but I doubt they invest that much in a C. Probably MLE for a C and TPE for a wing.


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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#7 » by Rockazoids » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:35 am

vetmin wrote:
Rockazoids wrote:Nope, the Knicks can sit were they are at and pickup a PG anywhere pk 1 - pk 10. Also there is no reason for the Knicks to trade
Ntilkina for Looney and his extra year just for the hell of it.

Re: Knicks: Lamelo is pretty much the consensus best PG in the draft, and he may very well go 1st, so it’s not the craziest premise that the Knicks might want to trade up for him. Beyond bball too, he’d be good for business, since NYK has been pretty dull and without personality since at least Porzingis, if not (Car)Melo.


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NY had the odds for the #1 pick last year and came up with # 3 so just because GS has the odds it don't mean nothing.
GS could be picking 3rd. Also I like Killian Hayes or Tyrese Haliburton more than giving up 2 more picks & Frank for Ball.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#8 » by getrichordie » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:26 am

Rockazoids wrote:
vetmin wrote:
Rockazoids wrote:Nope, the Knicks can sit were they are at and pickup a PG anywhere pk 1 - pk 10. Also there is no reason for the Knicks to trade
Ntilkina for Looney and his extra year just for the hell of it.

Re: Knicks: Lamelo is pretty much the consensus best PG in the draft, and he may very well go 1st, so it’s not the craziest premise that the Knicks might want to trade up for him. Beyond bball too, he’d be good for business, since NYK has been pretty dull and without personality since at least Porzingis, if not (Car)Melo.


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NY had the odds for the #1 pick last year and came up with # 3 so just because GS has the odds it don't mean nothing.
GS could be picking 3rd. Also I like Killian Hayes or Tyrese Haliburton more than giving up 2 more picks & Frank for Ball.


What's the point of even saying this when OP clearly stated a reasonable premise? OP understands that it might not happen, and he stated this premise for a reason.

If the Knicks really believe in developing Ball to be their PGTOF, then I don't think there's a chance they let Ntilikina stand in the way of getting him. Ntilikina is a really good defender, but what has he shown outside of that for the Knicks to say, "Nah, we aren't giving up Frank to go and get who we think can be our PGOTF." ?
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#9 » by Rockazoids » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:46 am

getrichordie wrote:
Rockazoids wrote:
vetmin wrote:Re: Knicks: Lamelo is pretty much the consensus best PG in the draft, and he may very well go 1st, so it’s not the craziest premise that the Knicks might want to trade up for him. Beyond bball too, he’d be good for business, since NYK has been pretty dull and without personality since at least Porzingis, if not (Car)Melo.


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NY had the odds for the #1 pick last year and came up with # 3 so just because GS has the odds it don't mean nothing.
GS could be picking 3rd. Also I like Killian Hayes or Tyrese Haliburton more than giving up 2 more picks & Frank for Ball.


What's the point of even saying this when OP clearly stated a reasonable premise? OP understands that it might not happen, and he stated this premise for a reason.

If the Knicks really believe in developing Ball to be their PGTOF, then I don't think there's a chance they let Ntilikina stand in the way of getting him. Ntilikina is a really good defender, but what has he shown outside of that for the Knicks to say, "Nah, we aren't giving up Frank to go and get who we think can be our PGOTF." ?

You do know that NO & MEM both move up 6 spots & NY moved down 2 & 5 team went down 3 spots last year right?
And no Ntilikina can be the stopper at the 1-3 for NY
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#10 » by getrichordie » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:02 am

Rockazoids wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Rockazoids wrote:NY had the odds for the #1 pick last year and came up with # 3 so just because GS has the odds it don't mean nothing.
GS could be picking 3rd. Also I like Killian Hayes or Tyrese Haliburton more than giving up 2 more picks & Frank for Ball.


What's the point of even saying this when OP clearly stated a reasonable premise? OP understands that it might not happen, and he stated this premise for a reason.

If the Knicks really believe in developing Ball to be their PGTOF, then I don't think there's a chance they let Ntilikina stand in the way of getting him. Ntilikina is a really good defender, but what has he shown outside of that for the Knicks to say, "Nah, we aren't giving up Frank to go and get who we think can be our PGOTF." ?

You do know that NO & MEM both move up 6 spots & NY moved down 2 & 5 team went down 3 spots last year right?
And no Ntilikina can be the stopper at the 1-3 for NY


Not the point. Just respect OP's premise. Don't derail thread w/ other premises. Make a new thread if you want to do that.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#11 » by Rockazoids » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:55 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Rockazoids wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
What's the point of even saying this when OP clearly stated a reasonable premise? OP understands that it might not happen, and he stated this premise for a reason.

If the Knicks really believe in developing Ball to be their PGTOF, then I don't think there's a chance they let Ntilikina stand in the way of getting him. Ntilikina is a really good defender, but what has he shown outside of that for the Knicks to say, "Nah, we aren't giving up Frank to go and get who we think can be our PGOTF." ?

You do know that NO & MEM both move up 6 spots & NY moved down 2 & 5 team went down 3 spots last year right?
And no Ntilikina can be the stopper at the 1-3 for NY


Not the point. Just respect OP's premise. Don't derail thread w/ other premises. Make a new thread if you want to do that.

Respect OP's premise? OP premise is flawed in the 1st place.You can look at page after page how posters say
how weak this draft is with no true super star so why use 6,27,38 a protected lottery & Ntilkina to move up.
Also if a Mod had a problem with my post they would had said so. So you can play moderator with someone else.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#12 » by vetmin » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:47 am

Rockazoids wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Rockazoids wrote:You do know that NO & MEM both move up 6 spots & NY moved down 2 & 5 team went down 3 spots last year right?
And no Ntilikina can be the stopper at the 1-3 for NY


Not the point. Just respect OP's premise. Don't derail thread w/ other premises. Make a new thread if you want to do that.

Respect OP's premise? OP premise is flawed in the 1st place.You can look at page after page how posters say
how weak this draft is with no true super star so why use 6,27,38 a protected lottery & Ntilkina to move up.
Also if a Mod had a problem with my post they would had said so. So you can play moderator with someone else.

I think he’s reacting to your quibbling about lottery odds. The premise is Dubs get 1, Knicks get 6. Of course this might not happen, but it could, and that’s the premise.


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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#13 » by FutureKnicksGM » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:06 am

Yeah pass for NY. We’ll keep those additional picks and Frank.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#14 » by Warriorfan » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:36 am

Im sure the Warriors would want to trade down,
Future asset is ideal I do think NY is a ream that needs to make a splash

A high 2nd or low 1st would be used with the TPE because teams not in contention would want to avoid the luxury tax
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#15 » by Knickfan1982 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:16 am

vetmin wrote:To me, the dream is snagging Josh Richardson into the TPE from a financially desperate Sixers FO, but I like Ntilikina as a poor man’s Richardson who could turn into a Chriss-esque reclamation. The obvious thing would be to just make him part of the trade down with NYK, hopefully in exchange for Poole [does that work? If not TPE is there]. Unlikely they get away from Looney just yet as he’s built up some equity with the FO and I expect they’ll give his health another shot.


Poole would not work. The best thing about him in my opinion is that he has more years of control left than Frank but otherwise I don't see a prospect worth making a move for. Frank is close to Poole in age despite being in the league for a long period of time. He's got more NBA experience, got more upside and Poole's shooting numbers last season were equal to Frank N's worse. I would rather hope Frank turns the corner to the point where we would be justified resigning him.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#16 » by Knickfan1982 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

radtech wrote:Dubs in this scenario win the first pick in the draft and decide to trade with the Knicks for the 6th pick, 27th pick and the 38th pick. I would have preferred a future protected lottery pick like in 2014, the Dubs traded a 1st to rid themselves of Iggys contract to MEM, so the Dubs can replace that pick.

6th pick- Deni Avdija, SF, a play maker who moves well off ball
27th pick- Leandro Bolamro, SF/SG, another play making wing they will stash overseas
38th pick- Daniel Oturu, C, still developing young big

Dubs also trade Looney to the Knicks for Frank Ntilkina

Why the trade for Ntilkina, defensively already a plus defender as soon as he entered the league. Dubs rank dead last in defense last year. Klay is coming off his ACL injury and needs more rest. Ntilkina compares to Iggy defensively, is another ball handler, and offers more size at the guard position. His offensive hopefully becomes more like Livingston, and lives of out short jumpers and drives to the rim.



As for the draft pick portion of the deal deal, in principle it makes sense for us and any other time I would jump all over it. But the draft was supposed to take place already and its now been pushed all the way to October. So much can happen between now and then its really hard to get a reading on where the prospects rank in hierarchy.

So in principle I am ok with it. If we were doing a mock offseason and the draft was coming up I would make the deal. But within the current context of the NBA I would prefer to hold off until we knew more.

As for the Looney for Frank Ntikina portion of the deal. That's going to be a hard no. Doesn't have Frankie's upside or potential utility for the Knicks. I would be open to deal him in the right trade but this isn't it.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#17 » by vetmin » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:53 am

Knickfan1982 wrote:
vetmin wrote:To me, the dream is snagging Josh Richardson into the TPE from a financially desperate Sixers FO, but I like Ntilikina as a poor man’s Richardson who could turn into a Chriss-esque reclamation. The obvious thing would be to just make him part of the trade down with NYK, hopefully in exchange for Poole [does that work? If not TPE is there]. Unlikely they get away from Looney just yet as he’s built up some equity with the FO and I expect they’ll give his health another shot.


Poole would not work. The best thing about him in my opinion is that he has more years of control left than Frank but otherwise I don't see a prospect worth making a move for. Frank is close to Poole in age despite being in the league for a long period of time. He's got more NBA experience, got more upside and Poole's shooting numbers last season were equal to Frank N's worse. I would rather hope Frank turns the corner to the point where we would be justified resigning him.

I meant mainly as matching salary, so that GSW wouldnt waste precious TPE space on Ntilikina. Pretty sure GSW would have to combine Poole with another player or two (other disposable guys on GSW’s roster) though to make it work.

Frank in this scenario is just the price (or part of the price) for moving up to #1


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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#18 » by Knickfan1982 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:54 am

vetmin wrote:
Knickfan1982 wrote:
vetmin wrote:To me, the dream is snagging Josh Richardson into the TPE from a financially desperate Sixers FO, but I like Ntilikina as a poor man’s Richardson who could turn into a Chriss-esque reclamation. The obvious thing would be to just make him part of the trade down with NYK, hopefully in exchange for Poole [does that work? If not TPE is there]. Unlikely they get away from Looney just yet as he’s built up some equity with the FO and I expect they’ll give his health another shot.


Poole would not work. The best thing about him in my opinion is that he has more years of control left than Frank but otherwise I don't see a prospect worth making a move for. Frank is close to Poole in age despite being in the league for a long period of time. He's got more NBA experience, got more upside and Poole's shooting numbers last season were equal to Frank N's worse. I would rather hope Frank turns the corner to the point where we would be justified resigning him.

I meant mainly as matching salary, so that GSW wouldnt waste precious TPE space on Ntilikina. Pretty sure GSW would have to combine Poole with another player or two (other disposable guys on GSW’s roster) though to make it work.

Frank in this scenario is just the price (or part of the price) for moving up to #1


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I would have to see the whole trade to make a decision on what I'd do or not but my same concerns about the draft pick portion of the deal that I mentioned in another post would likely still stand.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#19 » by SNPA » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:17 am

Rebuilding for what purpose? These moves (and I like the the players drafted) are not win now moves. These are looking to the future moves. IMO GS should be looking at win now moves and not hedging towards a new future. The window is small. Frank and Dedmon don’t do enough to cover the gap.

If GS is about winning another title with this core anything short of using their three main assets (2 first and exception) to upgrade with proven win now guys is malpractice. They should trade the pick for a player, not more picks.
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Re: Dubs off season rebuild 

Post#20 » by KuruptedCav » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:18 pm

I cannot see the Warriors trading down for picks. If they think that Deni Avdija is the guy they want; they will take him #1 and move forward.

A move from 1 to 2 or 1 to 3 maybe; if someone is giving up ridiculous value to take the player the Warriors do not plan to take. Similar to Atl/Dal trade where Luka wasn't getting past Memphis, and Memphis wasn't taking Trae; or PHI/BOS. Both of which were more valuable trades than the one proposed here.

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