Vucevic to...

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Vucevic to... 

Post#1 » by Skybox » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:57 pm

Nik Vucevic needs to move on. He's the best player on ORL and, if you have any faith in these boards, maybe the most underrated player in the league. Perhaps his position is not the most highly valued in this perimeter-driven league and his new deal, while not crazy, is more than some here want to pay for his position/role. As a Magic fan, I am becoming obsessed with the idea that removing him would make our style of play more exciting. We would put the ball in Fultz' hands and send young, fast, long guys to fill the lanes off the rip and run. We would also need shooters on the wing to really open things up for the cutters and Fultz. Vuc is a smart, reliable, solid, versatile offensive player that could help give a contender a dangerous option in the post as well as a fantastic passer in the half-court, a decent floor spreader and an elite defensive rebounder. He's not a speedy transition guy or a feared rim protector or adept at switching on smaller players. He's overall not a bad position defender but he's not what some need in 2020 style play....

So, which contender could trade for him without gutting their talent and could use him in a style that supports their existing stars?

I say...GSW for Wiggins straight up. This is an incredible gamble on Wiggins and my theory about ORL's system without Vuc. At worst, GSW saves a lot of committed money and gets a player who is completely reliable and versatile in his contribution. Many consider Wiggins the worst deal/gamble in the NBA and I understand that if he failed in ORL, it'd be sealed for him (and our FO).

or...BOS for Hayward (resigned around 28x3). Vuc has a descending contract and BOS might be looking to save money and add a more versatile offensive player at a position of need. Hayward is, perhaps, not as valuable as he was before Tatum and Brown's emergence and less necessary as a facilitator with Kemba there as well. Vuc gives them the same half-court ball movement, an equal scoring threat but with a different flavor that complements their perimeter guys and allows them to provide a variety of matchup problems.

or...SAS for DeRozan and Keldon Johnson. I'm assuming DeRozan opts out and signs a 3 year deal comparable with Vuc's. DeRozan has gotten a lot of knocks for how the team does when he's on vs. when he's off the court. I assume he's out of SAS anyway, so it's a bit of a loss for SAS, whose reputation as a perfect franchise took some shots in Kawhi situation and who was never really a FA destination. I think a smart, fundamentally sound guy like Vuc would be great as a central cog in a Popovich system. Assuming, of course, Pop sticks around, I think he could build a really functional offense around Vuc, some smart vets and some young shooters. Based on Derozan's age and FA status, I think ORL gets a prospect back with DD.

Vuc was a recent All-Star and it was well-deserved. You may not like his style of play for YOUR team but he's got a lot to offer in the right squad. He has carried ORL over the last few years and I would be happy to see him subvert his numbers a bit to cement a stronger unit. I think ORL would be better suited going in a different direction with their young players rather than building around Vuc.

Any creative destinations/realistic trades in this vein?
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#2 » by giberish » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:16 pm

I'd think Orlando has to be careful, as trading Vucevic could easily lead to Orlando becoming more uptempo (and perhaps exciting) but also clearly worse.

IMO that's particularly likely as there probably isn't much real demand for Vuc around the league for position/style/contract/age/position issues. So Orlando would probably be getting a pretty bad value deal in return. For instance, GS would likely do a straight Wiggins for Vuc deal just for the big quality win, but as the deal leaves the Warriors needing to add two quality SF's to round out their rotation they probably aren't adding any real incentive to make it happen.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#3 » by rugbyrugger23 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:19 pm

How about for Zeller and a 8/15 swap?

At 8, Magic might get a better chance at GOF next to Fultz.

Maybe a Ross for Batum swap too?
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#4 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:22 pm

I'll comment on the Hayward portion from the Boston side. On the pro side, it adds offensive diversification like you mentioned. Contractually, his salary fits our long term timeline well and offers potentially luxury-tax avoiding salary savings for '20-21 if it's part of a S&T like you mentioned where Boston doesn't need to take on another deal to match Hayward's option salary.

On the negative side, I think Hayward is just a better player. Stylistically, Stevens prefers to run through multiple perimeter guys. Roster depth wise, we are actually weaker on the wing than at center. Don't get me wrong, we could use a top of the depth chart guy like Vuc at center, but we have depth there. On the perimeter it's the opposite where we have a great top of the depth chart but lack proven backups. So this deal kind of weakens that.

Ultimately, if Boston were to do this, they'd have to make some other moves. They'd either need to move Kanter's expiring deal plus pick(s)/prospect(s) or trade Theis to get back perimeter help. But I'm sure something could be worked out where that happens. Depending on what they could get with those ancillary moves I think this deal is something Boston would very much consider.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#5 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:32 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:How about for Zeller and a 8/15 swap?

At 8, Magic might get a better chance at GOF next to Fultz.

Maybe a Ross for Batum swap too?

Are you a mindreader? I was debating back and forth in my head about whether a Zeller+Rozier+8 for Vuc+15 swap was worth it, and poof, there's your post saying a very similar thing. :lol:

i'm leaning no, but I wouldn't mind if we did that. I prefer the cap flexibility, but I also hate not being able to rebound or create shots in the paint. I don't see him as a long term starter- maybe just a year or two while we're still a lottery team and not having drafted our center of the future yet?

What about a three way with Dallas (the Dallas part is Chuck approved):
Charlotte: Zeller+Rozier+8+32 for Vuc+15+18
Dallas: Powell+18 for Zeller
Orlando: Vuc+15 for Rozier+Powell+8+32
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#6 » by loserX » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:33 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:Ultimately, if Boston were to do this, they'd have to make some other moves. They'd either need to move Kanter's expiring deal plus pick(s)/prospect(s) or trade Theis to get back perimeter help. But I'm sure something could be worked out where that happens. Depending on what they could get with those ancillary moves I think this deal is something Boston would very much consider.


You could add Kanter and Poirier to this deal and get back Ross. Add a couple of more guys (Ojeleye/Edwards?) and you could work it out to get Fournier instead, although that has tax and roster spot implications.

I still don't know that Boston does it but it's interesting to think about.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#7 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:34 pm

I'm struggling with the valuations in the OP. You have Wiggins and Gordon Hayward as having the same value? Say what again?
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#8 » by Resistance » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:42 pm

...SAS for DeRozan and Keldon Johnson. I'm assuming DeRozan opts out and signs a 3 year deal comparable with Vuc's. DeRozan has gotten a lot of knocks for how the team does when he's on vs. when he's off the court. I assume he's out of SAS anyway, so it's a bit of a loss for SAS, whose reputation as a perfect franchise took some shots in Kawhi situation and who was never really a FA destination. I think a smart, fundamentally sound guy like Vuc would be great as a central cog in a Popovich system. Assuming, of course, Pop sticks around, I think he could build a really functional offense around Vuc, some smart vets and some young shooters. Based on Derozan's age and FA status, I think ORL gets a prospect back with DD.



I don't think that Vucevic and LMA can be on the court together very many minutes. So the Spurs would need to have a trade setup for LMA or they would have too much salary allocated for Center types. They are also thin at SF, so I have doubts about them including Johnson.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#9 » by Godaddycurse » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:47 pm

Ya as Chuck said, not really sure what OP is trying to achieve in a trade for Vuc. cap space? young players? vets (at diff position)?
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#10 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:47 pm

loserX wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:Ultimately, if Boston were to do this, they'd have to make some other moves. They'd either need to move Kanter's expiring deal plus pick(s)/prospect(s) or trade Theis to get back perimeter help. But I'm sure something could be worked out where that happens. Depending on what they could get with those ancillary moves I think this deal is something Boston would very much consider.


You could add Kanter and Poirier to this deal and get back Ross. Add a couple of more guys (Ojeleye/Edwards?) and you could work it out to get Fournier instead, although that has tax and roster spot implications.

I still don't know that Boston does it but it's interesting to think about.


Vuc and Ross make $39.5M combined.If Hayward signs a 3 year deal like the OP suggested for $28M/year then Boston would be able to keep him for that with a year 1 salary of $26M. Add in Kanter's $5M salary and that's $31M for those two vs.$39.5M. And you also don't have the long term commitment of Ross.

I think stylistically, Boston would prefer the Hayward/Kanter combo (great wing, ok big) over the Vuc/Ross combo (great big, ok wing). But the big thing is that financially the Hayward/Kanter combo is worlds better for a luxury tax team.

I don't think ORL has any pieces that work financially to expand this trade for Boston on that end. It would have to be a separate deal with another team to do that part IMO.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#11 » by Skybox » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:34 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I'm struggling with the valuations in the OP. You have Wiggins and Gordon Hayward as having the same value? Say what again?


Just throwing stuff out there...don't overanalyze. I don't think Vuc gets Hayward straight up, but there are add-ins and new contracts to consider too.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#12 » by Buzzard » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:29 pm

I like Vuc and wanted him traded to the Hawks. That ship has sailed but a team could do a lot worse. His offense is way above average and I think the past two seasons, his D is underrated. Depending on Haywards extension, this might not be a bad deal for either team.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#13 » by orlando_joe » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:31 pm

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:How about for Zeller and a 8/15 swap?

At 8, Magic might get a better chance at GOF next to Fultz.

Maybe a Ross for Batum swap too?

Are you a mindreader? I was debating back and forth in my head about whether a Zeller+Rozier+8 for Vuc+15 swap was worth it, and poof, there's your post saying a very similar thing. :lol:

i'm leaning no, but I wouldn't mind if we did that. I prefer the cap flexibility, but I also hate not being able to rebound or create shots in the paint. I don't see him as a long term starter- maybe just a year or two while we're still a lottery team and not having drafted our center of the future yet?

What about a three way with Dallas (the Dallas part is Chuck approved):
Charlotte: Zeller+Rozier+8+32 for Vuc+15+18
Dallas: Powell+18 for Zeller
Orlando: Vuc+15 for Rozier+Powell+8+32

i dont see anyway magic take on those 2 bad contracts...awful...now just zeller exp ? maybe if they think mo is further along then i do...and want money for 2021..have to pay fultz and isaac..and i see cap dropping not taking on more long term money for powell he has worst injury out there.and rozier numbers not much better then dj...lol ...who might sign 1 yr 4 mill?? .also dont think fournier stays if vuc goes and really then need out of aminu also and go all youth...vuc goes dominoes fall
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#14 » by scottyg » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:22 am

I kinda want the bulls to get him for Wendall Carter and Felicios exp contract, I think Carter and Bamba and Issac could be a defensive nightmare for teams and young enough to grow together and think Vucevic and Markannen could build something sweet !
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#15 » by pipfan » Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:45 am

I like the idea for Char
Vuc/Ross/#15 for Zeller/Batum/#8

Char gets an All star big who helps them make the playoffs, and adds a good bench wing. Char is not a FA destination anyway, and just being over .500 might be good enough for them.

Orl then moves Gordon to the Suns for the #10 and starts over around
Fultz. Issac, Bamba, #8, #10-plus a clean cap sheet going into 2021. Plus, they set up their own top 7 pick in the stacked 2021 draft. Seems like a much better future long term
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#16 » by jredsaz » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:48 am

What about

Magic receive Otto Porter Jr and #7
Bulls receive Vucevic and #15

Magic get a reclamation project of sorts in OPJ coming off an injury and a lot of missed time. But he fits your bill of length, running, and gunning and is on the last year of his deal. Move up and into the lottery 8 selections.

Bulls add an all star who is locked up for 3 years and keep a first rounder doing it.

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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#17 » by orlando_joe » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:48 am

pipfan wrote:I like the idea for Char
Vuc/Ross/#15 for Zeller/Batum/#8

Char gets an All star big who helps them make the playoffs, and adds a good bench wing. Char is not a FA destination anyway, and just being over .500 might be good enough for them.

Orl then moves Gordon to the Suns for the #10 and starts over around
Fultz. Issac, Bamba, #8, #10-plus a clean cap sheet going into 2021. Plus, they set up their own top 7 pick in the stacked 2021 draft. Seems like a much better future long term

to take on batum at 27 mill ..and throw in ross magic should keep 15..and give there 2nd rd ...and char take on aminu
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#18 » by orlando_joe » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:53 am

jredsaz wrote:What about

Magic receive Otto Porter Jr and #7
Bulls receive Vucevic and #15

Magic get a reclamation project of sorts in OPJ coming off an injury and a lot of missed time. But he fits your bill of length, running, and gunning and is on the last year of his deal. Move up and into the lottery 8 selections.

Bulls add an all star who is locked up for 3 years and keep a first rounder doing it.

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if thats direction magic want to go..seems real close to me
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#19 » by NYG » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:14 pm

Vuc for Hield?
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#20 » by Skybox » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:32 pm

scottyg wrote:I kinda want the bulls to get him for Wendall Carter and Felicios exp contract, I think Carter and Bamba and Issac could be a defensive nightmare for teams and young enough to grow together and think Vucevic and Markannen could build something sweet !


Not getting this at all from ORL's perspective. WCJ plays the same way as Vuc, but nowhere near as well. I'm interested in system change, not just dumping a good player for a similar but lesser guy and as expiring. Not sure how plodding WCJ plays 4 next to Bamba (who also can't play 4)...would be a bigger mess than now.

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