Vucevic to...

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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#41 » by Jack Dempsey » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:45 pm

Skybox wrote:
Jack Dempsey wrote:Lonnie Walker has Superstar potential. That would be huge for Orlando but I can't see the Spurs being interested in trading him, epsecially not for Vuc & Evan. And DeRozan isn't worth it at all.


I was hoping the Spurs wouldn't notice I snuck him in there :wink:

Or that Pop would sellout his team for an all-in old guy run at a ring, future be damned!

Yeah, I can't blame you, kid is special.

Godaddycurse wrote:
Jack Dempsey wrote:Lonnie Walker has Superstar potential. That would be huge for Orlando but I can't see the Spurs being interested in trading him, epsecially not for Vuc & Evan. And DeRozan isn't worth it at all.


I mean the guy shot well from 3 and is young, but with a TS of 51.5%/PER 11/BPM -3.2, I'm not sure i see superstar potential..?

Oh, try using League Pass instead of basketball-reference... he's not there yet but he has all the tools to become a superstar
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#42 » by NotACat » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:28 am

Jack Dempsey wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Jack Dempsey wrote:Lonnie Walker has Superstar potential. That would be huge for Orlando but I can't see the Spurs being interested in trading him, epsecially not for Vuc & Evan. And DeRozan isn't worth it at all.


I was hoping the Spurs wouldn't notice I snuck him in there :wink:

Or that Pop would sellout his team for an all-in old guy run at a ring, future be damned!

Yeah, I can't blame you, kid is special.

Godaddycurse wrote:
Jack Dempsey wrote:Lonnie Walker has Superstar potential. That would be huge for Orlando but I can't see the Spurs being interested in trading him, epsecially not for Vuc & Evan. And DeRozan isn't worth it at all.


I mean the guy shot well from 3 and is young, but with a TS of 51.5%/PER 11/BPM -3.2, I'm not sure i see superstar potential..?

Oh, try using League Pass instead of basketball-reference... he's not there yet but he has all the tools to become a superstar

About the tools to become a superstar bit, you could say that for a lot of 1st/2nd year players
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#43 » by Skybox » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:40 am

ORL sends Vuc, Aminu
DET sends Griffin, Kennard
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#44 » by NotACat » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:06 am

Skybox wrote:ORL sends Vuc, Aminu
DET sends Griffin, Kennard

Can't see Orlando ranting wanting to bring in yet another forward.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#45 » by jjohns828 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:12 am

NotACat wrote:
Skybox wrote:ORL sends Vuc, Aminu
DET sends Griffin, Kennard

Can't see Orlando ranting wanting to bring in yet another forward.

Agreed, with Gordon and Isaac both in place I can’t see them wanting Griffin and even if they move Gordon I think they still wouldn’t want him here blocking Isaac from taking over the starting PF spot.


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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#46 » by Skybox » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:15 pm

I was thinking that whether Bamba dominated enough to take over the Center spot or not, ORL could try some creative stuff with Griffin, Isaac, and Bamba all taking time at C. If Griffin is healthy, he becomes the dominant offensive force on the team...so you figure out the other guys...

More than anything, I'm looking at teams that could benefit from Vuc and how ORL could play differently without him. Having said that, I don't want to give away a very good player for nothing. Many on the forum think moving Vuc (or AG for that matter) is a salary dump requiring incentive attached. I don't think that's remotely true, but it has to be a team where Vuc would be valued. Vuc makes a lot but is versatile, adaptable and reliable...to get a superior player back for him, there has to be substantial risk (Griffin-injury, Wiggins-bust?, Hayward-flight risk, contract?, etc)

I still think...GSW, BOS, CHA, DET, LAC, NOLA, SAC, SAS would be clearly better with Vuc...I'd also consider LAL, DAL, HOU as teams that might, even though they have solid bigs (that don't want to be Centers)...there are only a handful of teams that wouldn't consider Vuc an upgrade from their incumbent, but, obviously, quite a few that don't want or can't afford to pay his salary for that position or have an entirely different style of play and really can only flourish with a rim runner without offense.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#47 » by jjohns828 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:49 pm

Skybox wrote:I was thinking that whether Bamba dominated enough to take over the Center spot or not, ORL could try some creative stuff with Griffin, Isaac, and Bamba all taking time at C. If Griffin is healthy, he becomes the dominant offensive force on the team...so you figure out the other guys...

More than anything, I'm looking at teams that could benefit from Vuc and how ORL could play differently without him. Having said that, I don't want to give away a very good player for nothing. Many on the forum think moving Vuc (or AG for that matter) is a salary dump requiring incentive attached. I don't think that's remotely true, but it has to be a team where Vuc would be valued. Vuc makes a lot but is versatile, adaptable and reliable...to get a superior player back for him, there has to be substantial risk (Griffin-injury, Wiggins-bust?, Hayward-flight risk, contract?, etc)

I still think...GSW, BOS, CHA, DET, LAC, NOLA, SAC, SAS would be clearly better with Vuc...I'd also consider LAL, DAL, HOU as teams that might, even though they have solid bigs (that don't want to be Centers)...there are only a handful of teams that wouldn't consider Vuc an upgrade from their incumbent, but, obviously, quite a few that don't want or can't afford to pay his salary for that position or have an entirely different style of play and really can only flourish with a rim runner without offense.


Of the three you mentioned the only one I'd be remotely interested in is Hayward and only if I was convinced we were likely to be able to resign him on a reasonable contract. I believe in Griffin and Wiggins on the Magic so little that as much as I believe Vuc can get more than a salary dump I'd take one over trading for them without a very good asset attached to them.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#48 » by Buzzard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:17 pm

Vucevic straight up for Capela.

Why Orlando? Trade offense for defense. It saves them roughly 21 Million over the next three years and gets them safely away from the luxury threshold.

Why Atlanta? Vuc is a stretch five to pair with Collins.

Not sure either team would do this; but it could make a lot of sense.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#49 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:26 pm

I do think that Bamba has shown enough promise in year 2 that it makes sense to see what you’ve got in him. I also think that the theory of an Isaac/Bamba front court makes a ton of sense and that Orlando would be best suited in trading AG/Vuc to see what they’ve got.

Would Vuc to Chicago for OPJ make any sense?
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#50 » by jjohns828 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:44 pm

Buzzard wrote:Vucevic straight up for Capela.

Why Orlando? Trade offense for defense. It saves them roughly 21 Million over the next three years and gets them safely away from the luxury threshold.

Why Atlanta? Vuc is a stretch five to pair with Collins.

Not sure either team would do this; but it could make a lot of sense.


Unfortunately it doesn't make sense for the Magic. I doubt our front office would want to trade Vuc unless they feel Bamba is ready to take over at center so I can't see them trading him for another center. Plus, offense is already our teams biggest issue so I can't see our front office trading our most reliable scorer for defense unless that player was almost assuredly going to be a long term piece for us and with my first point concerning Bamba I can't see Capela fitting that description.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#51 » by Buzzard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:04 pm

jjohns828 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Vucevic straight up for Capela.

Why Orlando? Trade offense for defense. It saves them roughly 21 Million over the next three years and gets them safely away from the luxury threshold.

Why Atlanta? Vuc is a stretch five to pair with Collins.

Not sure either team would do this; but it could make a lot of sense.


Unfortunately it doesn't make sense for the Magic. I doubt our front office would want to trade Vuc unless they feel Bamba is ready to take over at center so I can't see them trading him for another center. Plus, offense is already our teams biggest issue so I can't see our front office trading our most reliable scorer for defense unless that player was almost assuredly going to be a long term piece for us and with my first point concerning Bamba I can't see Capela fitting that description.

In one way its a win/win. Orlando still gets a quality center and saves cap. Atlanta gets a stretch 5 and has the cap to burn.

But I can see it being a loss for both teams also.

Once Atlanta landed Capela, a center went to the bottom of their list of needs. Defense and shooting is their primary needs. Capela helps check off something on defense and is a pick and roll beast on offense; you just need a PG that can execute it. His contract is about as about cap friendly as its gets for a high quality starter other than rookie scale deals.

The flip side is Orlando loses who I think is their best offensive player and its not close. Despite the hype for Isaac, I would give even odds on Bamba being a better pro. Maybe Isaac's 4th season will be the one he takes the lead in Orlando.

I think its just as tough a call between what to do with Isaac and Gordon as it is with Vuc and Bamba.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#52 » by jjohns828 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:23 pm

Buzzard wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Vucevic straight up for Capela.

Why Orlando? Trade offense for defense. It saves them roughly 21 Million over the next three years and gets them safely away from the luxury threshold.

Why Atlanta? Vuc is a stretch five to pair with Collins.

Not sure either team would do this; but it could make a lot of sense.


Unfortunately it doesn't make sense for the Magic. I doubt our front office would want to trade Vuc unless they feel Bamba is ready to take over at center so I can't see them trading him for another center. Plus, offense is already our teams biggest issue so I can't see our front office trading our most reliable scorer for defense unless that player was almost assuredly going to be a long term piece for us and with my first point concerning Bamba I can't see Capela fitting that description.

In one way its a win/win. Orlando still gets a quality center and saves cap. Atlanta gets a stretch 5 and has the cap to burn.

But I can see it being a loss for both teams also.

Once Atlanta landed Capela, a center went to the bottom of their list of needs. Defense and shooting is their primary needs. Capela helps check off something on defense and is a pick and roll beast on offense; you just need a PG that can execute it. His contract is about as about cap friendly as its gets for a high quality starter other than rookie scale deals.

The flip side is Orlando loses who I think is their best offensive player and its not close. Despite the hype for Isaac, I would give even odds on Bamba being a better pro. Maybe Isaac's 4th season will be the one he takes the lead in Orlando.

I think its just as tough a call between what to do with Isaac and Gordon as it is with Vuc and Bamba.


I just can't see it for the Magic. With how important he is to our offense I don't see any scenario where our front office trades Vuc except that they're ready to give the starting spot to Bamba and at that point I don't think it makes sense to bring in Capela to be a backup.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#53 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:28 pm

Washington to me seems the landing spot.

And no, I don't have Lonnie Walker as a future superstar.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#54 » by Buzzard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:33 pm

jjohns828 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:
Unfortunately it doesn't make sense for the Magic. I doubt our front office would want to trade Vuc unless they feel Bamba is ready to take over at center so I can't see them trading him for another center. Plus, offense is already our teams biggest issue so I can't see our front office trading our most reliable scorer for defense unless that player was almost assuredly going to be a long term piece for us and with my first point concerning Bamba I can't see Capela fitting that description.

In one way its a win/win. Orlando still gets a quality center and saves cap. Atlanta gets a stretch 5 and has the cap to burn.

But I can see it being a loss for both teams also.

Once Atlanta landed Capela, a center went to the bottom of their list of needs. Defense and shooting is their primary needs. Capela helps check off something on defense and is a pick and roll beast on offense; you just need a PG that can execute it. His contract is about as about cap friendly as its gets for a high quality starter other than rookie scale deals.

The flip side is Orlando loses who I think is their best offensive player and its not close. Despite the hype for Isaac, I would give even odds on Bamba being a better pro. Maybe Isaac's 4th season will be the one he takes the lead in Orlando.

I think its just as tough a call between what to do with Isaac and Gordon as it is with Vuc and Bamba.


I just can't see it for the Magic. With how important he is to our offense I don't see any scenario where our front office trades Vuc except that they're ready to give the starting spot to Bamba and at that point I don't think it makes sense to bring in Capela to be a backup.

Its more like Chess than Checkers. On the front end you save cap and add a starting caliber center. If Bamba hits, Capela is easier to move than Vuc in my opinion. I think by waiting and doing nothing, you are really counting on Isaac to become a star.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#55 » by jjohns828 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:41 pm

Buzzard wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:In one way its a win/win. Orlando still gets a quality center and saves cap. Atlanta gets a stretch 5 and has the cap to burn.

But I can see it being a loss for both teams also.

Once Atlanta landed Capela, a center went to the bottom of their list of needs. Defense and shooting is their primary needs. Capela helps check off something on defense and is a pick and roll beast on offense; you just need a PG that can execute it. His contract is about as about cap friendly as its gets for a high quality starter other than rookie scale deals.

The flip side is Orlando loses who I think is their best offensive player and its not close. Despite the hype for Isaac, I would give even odds on Bamba being a better pro. Maybe Isaac's 4th season will be the one he takes the lead in Orlando.

I think its just as tough a call between what to do with Isaac and Gordon as it is with Vuc and Bamba.


I just can't see it for the Magic. With how important he is to our offense I don't see any scenario where our front office trades Vuc except that they're ready to give the starting spot to Bamba and at that point I don't think it makes sense to bring in Capela to be a backup.

Its more like Chess than Checkers. On the front end you save cap and add a starting caliber center. If Bamba hits, Capela is easier to move than Vuc in my opinion. I think by waiting and doing nothing, you are really counting on Isaac to become a star.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm all for moving Vuc but only if it's to give the reigns to Bamba. So I would be against any trade of Vuc where we bring in a center unless they're a throw in with the main value of the trade being elsewhere.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#56 » by Buzzard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:47 pm

jjohns828 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:
I just can't see it for the Magic. With how important he is to our offense I don't see any scenario where our front office trades Vuc except that they're ready to give the starting spot to Bamba and at that point I don't think it makes sense to bring in Capela to be a backup.

Its more like Chess than Checkers. On the front end you save cap and add a starting caliber center. If Bamba hits, Capela is easier to move than Vuc in my opinion. I think by waiting and doing nothing, you are really counting on Isaac to become a star.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm all for moving Vuc but only if it's to give the reigns to Bamba. So I would be against any trade of Vuc where we bring in a center unless they're a throw in with the main value of the trade being elsewhere.

I get it but I do think the Magic will start stressing about cap if Fournier opts in. If he doesn't and walks, they are in decent shape.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#57 » by Skybox » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:07 pm

jjohns828 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:
I just can't see it for the Magic. With how important he is to our offense I don't see any scenario where our front office trades Vuc except that they're ready to give the starting spot to Bamba and at that point I don't think it makes sense to bring in Capela to be a backup.

Its more like Chess than Checkers. On the front end you save cap and add a starting caliber center. If Bamba hits, Capela is easier to move than Vuc in my opinion. I think by waiting and doing nothing, you are really counting on Isaac to become a star.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm all for moving Vuc but only if it's to give the reigns to Bamba. So I would be against any trade of Vuc where we bring in a center unless they're a throw in with the main value of the trade being elsewhere.


We don’t need a defensive rim-runner like Capela. Vuc is a superior Player, with a much more complete game. Granted, Capela is a far superior rim protector and a comparable rebounder but Bamba projects to surpass Capela when given the minutes. Only way I’d want a center back would be a solid backup vet (like a Robin Lopez) along with a primary asset in a package...or a floor stretching Big like Lauri to give Orl different looks at the PF/C spots. Generally, I’m looking for a wing offensive creator with D a secondary concern. Maybe a guy who scores like a All-StAr but catches flack for his defensive contribution Or efficiency like Lavine, Derozan, or Wiggins. Put Isaac, Bamba, Gordon(?) behind them and maybe they look better or even buy in to team D.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#58 » by nevetsov » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:17 pm

TOR in: Vucevic
TOR out: Lowry, #28

MIA in: Lowry
MIA out: #23, Iggy (exp), Olynyk (exp)

ORL in: #23 (MIA), #28 (TOR), Iggy* & Olynyk (both expiring)
ORL out: Vucevic

* maybe GSW takes Iggy with their TPE?

I think Vuc would fill a big hole in Toronto, they have been filling the C spot with stopgap vets like Gasol and Ibaka for years. He'd immediately be the best C since... ? I can't even recall.

He's not too old to get some mileage with their young core of Siakam, Anouby and FVV. That's a bit of defensive bulldoggery around him too.

Trading Lowry would only happen if they are willing to fully hand the reigns over to FVV (which I think they will). It would be a tough pill for the fans to swallow trading someone so beloved who has been a franchise fixture for so long. But it does happen to vets entering the twilight of their careers. He's still good enough to contribute and TOR gets some return on his expiring deal.

Van Vleet
Powell
Anouby
Siakam
Vucevic

Is a sturdy young lineup.

Lowry is ontraded to MIA to be a third banana with Jimmy and Bam. MIA gets to kick the tyres for next to nothing.

ORL gets a bit of cap relief and a couple of late 1sts.
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#59 » by Buzzard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:19 pm

Skybox wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Its more like Chess than Checkers. On the front end you save cap and add a starting caliber center. If Bamba hits, Capela is easier to move than Vuc in my opinion. I think by waiting and doing nothing, you are really counting on Isaac to become a star.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm all for moving Vuc but only if it's to give the reigns to Bamba. So I would be against any trade of Vuc where we bring in a center unless they're a throw in with the main value of the trade being elsewhere.


We don’t need a defensive rim-runner like Capela. Vuc is a superior Player, with a much more complete game. Granted, Capela is a far superior rim protector and a comparable rebounder but Bamba projects to surpass Capela when given the minutes. Only way I’d want a center back would be a solid backup vet (like a Robin Lopez) along with a primary asset in a package...or a floor stretching Big like Lauri to give Orl different looks at the PF/C spots. Generally, I’m looking for a wing offensive creator with D a secondary concern. Maybe a guy who scores like a All-StAr but catches flack for his defensive contribution Or efficiency like Lavine, Derozan, or Wiggins. Put Isaac, Bamba, Gordon(?) behind them and maybe they look better or even buy in to team D.

If you need to retool your team, its the best pieces you have to use. Vucevic and Gordon are about it. So yes if we are talking checkers, you need more than a rim runner to fix your team. But if we are talking chess, who is to say Gordon does not get you a decent shooter and you do some good with your pick as well.

I get Vuc is your best offensive player; but I don't get what you think needs to be done to build around him. Or what you need to build around Gordon. Its like all I see is people throwing darts with no clear end game.

Why not flip the script. If they are so valuable, trade everyone but Vucevic and Gordon?
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Re: Vucevic to... 

Post#60 » by NotACat » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:27 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:I do think that Bamba has shown enough promise in year 2 that it makes sense to see what you’ve got in him. I also think that the theory of an Isaac/Bamba front court makes a ton of sense and that Orlando would be best suited in trading AG/Vuc to see what they’ve got.

Would Vuc to Chicago for OPJ make any sense?

OPJ makes a ton of sense of Orlando if they're also sending out Aaron Gordon. OPJ is ideal fit next to JI.

nevetsov wrote:TOR in: Vucevic
TOR out: Lowry, #28

MIA in: Lowry
MIA out: #23, Iggy (exp), Olynyk (exp)

ORL in: #23 (MIA), #28 (TOR), Iggy* & Olynyk (both expiring)
ORL out: Vucevic

* maybe GSW takes Iggy with their TPE?

I think Vuc would fill a big hole in Toronto, they have been filling the C spot with stopgap vets like Gasol and Ibaka for years. He'd immediately be the best C since... ? I can't even recall.

He's not too old to get some mileage with their young core of Siakam, Anouby and FVV. That's a bit of defensive bulldoggery around him too.

Trading Lowry would only happen if they are willing to fully hand the reigns over to FVV (which I think they will). It would be a tough pill for the fans to swallow trading someone so beloved who has been a franchise fixture for so long. But it does happen to vets entering the twilight of their careers. He's still good enough to contribute and TOR gets some return on his expiring deal.

Van Vleet
Powell
Anouby
Siakam
Vucevic

Is a sturdy young lineup.

Lowry is ontraded to MIA to be a third banana with Jimmy and Bam. MIA gets to kick the tyres for next to nothing.

ORL gets a bit of cap relief and a couple of late 1sts.


Can't see Toronto touching this, Lowry is a stud and they don't need Vuc.

Buzzard wrote:
Skybox wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm all for moving Vuc but only if it's to give the reigns to Bamba. So I would be against any trade of Vuc where we bring in a center unless they're a throw in with the main value of the trade being elsewhere.


We don’t need a defensive rim-runner like Capela. Vuc is a superior Player, with a much more complete game. Granted, Capela is a far superior rim protector and a comparable rebounder but Bamba projects to surpass Capela when given the minutes. Only way I’d want a center back would be a solid backup vet (like a Robin Lopez) along with a primary asset in a package...or a floor stretching Big like Lauri to give Orl different looks at the PF/C spots. Generally, I’m looking for a wing offensive creator with D a secondary concern. Maybe a guy who scores like a All-StAr but catches flack for his defensive contribution Or efficiency like Lavine, Derozan, or Wiggins. Put Isaac, Bamba, Gordon(?) behind them and maybe they look better or even buy in to team D.

If you need to retool your team, its the best pieces you have to use. Vucevic and Gordon are about it. So yes if we are talking checkers, you need more than a rim runner to fix your team. But if we are talking chess, who is to say Gordon does not get you a decent shooter and you do some good with your pick as well.

I get Vuc is your best offensive player; but I don't get what you think needs to be done to build around him. Or what you need to build around Gordon. Its like all I see is people throwing darts with no clear end game.

Why not flip the script. If they are so valuable, trade everyone but Vucevic and Gordon?

Because its an incredibly short-sighted idea with a terribly low ceiling. Fultz, Okeke, JI, and Bamba are the future for Orlando. Everyone else is a reserve or a placeholder until the young core develops.

Orlando has also been really smart about the contracts they've been handing out. Both AG and Vuc have declining contracts so they shouldn't be too worried about hit the cap even with Okeke coming in next year.
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