Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies

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Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#1 » by rugbyrugger23 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:11 pm

Celtics Trade:
Hayward
#17 (Memphis 2020 FRP)
#26 (Celtics 2020 FRP)
2021 FRP (protected top 14, 12, 8, 2nds)
Celtics Receive:
Dieng
#3 (GSW 2020 FRP)
17Mil TPE

Grizzlies Trade:
JVal
Dieng
Grizzlies Receive:
Wiggins
Looney
#17 (Own 2020 FRP Returned)
Celtics 2021 FRP (protected)

Warriors Trade:
Wiggins
Looney
#3 (2020 FRP)
Warriors Receive:
Hayward
JVal (via TPE)
#26 (Celtics 2020 FRP)

--

Celtics Why: a consolidation trade that infuses young talent and solves any current and what could be future cap pains. Ainge gets another chance at a high draft pick. Dieng can cycle in at 5 and is expiring to offset Tatum max contract.
C: Theis | Dieng | Williams
F: Tatum | Theis | Williams
F: Brown | Tatum
G: Smart | Brown | Langford
G: Walker | Smart

Grizzlies Why: take on Wiggins, but he expires before Morant needs a new deal. They also set themselves up for future consolidation trade (maybe when Wiggins as expiring contract ballast): 2021 Jazz FRP, 2021 Celtics FRP, 2024 GSW FRP, All Own FRPs, Youth.
C: JJJ | Looeny | Vet?
F: Clarke | Anderson | JJJ
F: Winslow | Brooks | Wiggins
G: Brooks | Wiggins (as super scoring 6th or starter?) | Melton
G: Morant | Melton
Roster is deep...could they have a consolidation trade sooner than later? Winslow or Brooks + #15 + FFRPs Owed (as needed)...

Warriors Why: turn Wiggins into Hayward. JVal can either be bigman they need (flyer on him) or he is non-Wiggins consolidation trade ballast (who fits into soon expiring Iggy TPE) attached to Wolves 2021 FRP + GSW 2022 FRP.
C: JVal | Green | Chriss
F: Green | Paschall
F: Hayward | Klay
G: Klay | Lee | Poole
G: Curry | Bowman
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#2 » by psman2 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:38 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:Celtics Trade:
Hayward
#17 (Memphis 2020 FRP)
#26 (Celtics 2020 FRP)
2021 FRP (protected top 14, 12, 8, 2nds)
Celtics Receive:
Dieng
#3 (GSW 2020 FRP)
17Mil TPE

Grizzlies Trade:
JVal
Dieng
Grizzlies Receive:
Wiggins
Looney
#17 (Own 2020 FRP Returned)
Celtics 2021 FRP (protected)

Warriors Trade:
Wiggins
Looney
#3 (2020 FRP)
Warriors Receive:
Hayward
JVal (via TPE)
#26 (Celtics 2020 FRP)

--

Celtics Why: a consolidation trade that infuses young talent and solves any current and what could be future cap pains. Ainge gets another chance at a high draft pick. Dieng can cycle in at 5 and is expiring to offset Tatum max contract.
C: Theis | Dieng | Williams
F: Tatum | Theis | Williams
F: Brown | Tatum
G: Smart | Brown | Langford
G: Walker | Smart

Grizzlies Why: take on Wiggins, but he expires before Morant needs a new deal. They also set themselves up for future consolidation trade (maybe when Wiggins as expiring contract ballast): 2021 Jazz FRP, 2021 Celtics FRP, 2024 GSW FRP, All Own FRPs, Youth.
C: JJJ | Looeny | Vet?
F: Clarke | Anderson | JJJ
F: Winslow | Brooks | Wiggins
G: Brooks | Wiggins (as super scoring 6th or starter?) | Melton
G: Morant | Melton
Roster is deep...could they have a consolidation trade sooner than later? Winslow or Brooks + #15 + FFRPs Owed (as needed)...

Warriors Why: turn Wiggins into Hayward. JVal can either be bigman they need (flyer on him) or he is non-Wiggins consolidation trade ballast (who fits into soon expiring Iggy TPE) attached to Wolves 2021 FRP + GSW 2022 FRP.
C: JVal | Green | Chriss
F: Green | Paschall
F: Hayward | Klay
G: Klay | Lee | Poole
G: Curry | Bowman


Memphis is not taking on 3 years of Wiggins and sending out Val for a weak 17 this year and a future likely 25th-30 pick. Zero interest here. None. Nope. Nada. We are too far along in a rebuild to take on the anchor of Wiggins, you should rope in Detroit or Charlotte who are more desperate for future picks than us and less likely to have use of the cap space over the next 3 years.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#3 » by Resistance » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:12 pm

Golden State

* Value: I have this about as good as it gets for them in regards to value.

* Fit/Direction: My gut has them probably looking for a bit more grit and a bit less offense than what Hayward brings.


Boston

* Value: The value seems great since they are getting a high pick while being able to avoid Wiggins and his contract. Boston owing a future pick would be something new.

* Fit/Direction: Since their bench could be better than it has been, they would be in a bad spot if one of Tatum or Brown misses some games due to injury. I know they would have the player drafted with the high lottery pick, but he might not be completely developed until the final year of Walker's contract.


Memphis

* Value: They are taking Wiggins while getting non great picks. so the value for Memphis is off.

* Fit/Direction: Dieng and JV aren't representing strong positive value, but they aren't huge negative value either. With JV and Dieng, Memphis has flexibility to tweak some things. Flexibility to make additional moves is really hampered when they take in Wiggins.

................................2020-21........2021-22........2022-223...
Gorgui Dieng.............$17,287,640......................................
Jonas Valančiūnas.......$15,000,000....$14,000,000..................

................................2020-21........2021-22........2022-223...
Andrew Wiggins..........$29,542,010...$31,579,390....$33,616,770
Kevon Looney..............$4,821,429....$5,178,572 - Player Option


Memphis would need to find some cheap servicable bigs to support JJJ because I have strong doubts about Looney being up to the task.



As is usually the case, it is difficult to find a team to take Wiggins unless there is a good pick attached.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#4 » by FutureKnicksGM » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:12 pm

Like the concept of a Hayward for Wiggins + 2020 first. I think Philly would be a better fit as a 3rd team (return of big Al) or that Danny would low key like wiggins as 6th man
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#5 » by patman66 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:14 pm

No way from Boston, Dieng is not worth his salary, I like him as a player, but his value is 1/2 of what he is getting paid.

I got a Wiggins trade value as something like GS 1st and Wiggins for expiring's Say Dieng and Kyle Anderson
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#6 » by pacers33granger » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:14 pm

So Memphis takes on the most negative asset by far and don't get the best player or pick? Boston is stealing value here.

I also highly doubt the Warriors blow their top 3 pick on a Hayward/Val combo just to shed Wiggins.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#7 » by rugbyrugger23 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:46 pm

pacers33granger wrote:So Memphis takes on the most negative asset by far and don't get the best player or pick? Boston is stealing value here.

I also highly doubt the Warriors blow their top 3 pick on a Hayward/Val combo just to shed Wiggins.

Because the Memphis and GSW straight up has been discussed to dead horse status.

Wiggins + 2020 FRP for JVal + Winslow or Brooks.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#8 » by pacers33granger » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:17 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:So Memphis takes on the most negative asset by far and don't get the best player or pick? Boston is stealing value here.

I also highly doubt the Warriors blow their top 3 pick on a Hayward/Val combo just to shed Wiggins.

Because the Memphis and GSW straight up has been discussed to dead horse status.

Wiggins + 2020 FRP for JVal + Winslow or Brooks.
Sure it's been discussed to death but I don't see that as a valid reason to shaft Memphis on value.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#9 » by patman66 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:50 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:Like the concept of a Hayward for Wiggins + 2020 first. I think Philly would be a better fit as a 3rd team (return of big Al) or that Danny would low key like wiggins as 6th man


I don't see how Danny would ever think of a return of Horford makes any sense at 27mill a year for his work as a mid 30YOs big.

Now I can see Danny breaking Hayward down to lesser pieces if the draft breaks his way.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#10 » by Resistance » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:07 pm

patman66 wrote:
FutureKnicksGM wrote:Like the concept of a Hayward for Wiggins + 2020 first. I think Philly would be a better fit as a 3rd team (return of big Al) or that Danny would low key like wiggins as 6th man


I don't see how Danny would ever think of a return of Horford makes any sense at 27mill a year for his work as a mid 30YOs big.

Now I can see Danny breaking Hayward down to lesser pieces if the draft breaks his way.



What does that mean?
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#11 » by Commodor » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:20 pm

patman66 wrote:No way from Boston, Dieng is not worth his salary, I like him as a player, but his value is 1/2 of what he is getting paid.

I got a Wiggins trade value as something like GS 1st and Wiggins for expiring's Say Dieng and Kyle Anderson


Wiggins + a high 1st known value is a young fringe all star. How’d that drop to mediocre players on expirings?
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#12 » by patman66 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:23 pm

Resistance wrote:
patman66 wrote:
FutureKnicksGM wrote:Like the concept of a Hayward for Wiggins + 2020 first. I think Philly would be a better fit as a 3rd team (return of big Al) or that Danny would low key like wiggins as 6th man


I don't see how Danny would ever think of a return of Horford makes any sense at 27mill a year for his work as a mid 30YOs big.

Now I can see Danny breaking Hayward down to lesser pieces if the draft breaks his way.



What does that mean?


That while Ainge could deal hayward after the draft, it would not be for Horford as the main piece coming back.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#13 » by Resistance » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:28 pm

patman66 wrote:
Resistance wrote:
patman66 wrote:
I don't see how Danny would ever think of a return of Horford makes any sense at 27mill a year for his work as a mid 30YOs big.

Now I can see Danny breaking Hayward down to lesser pieces if the draft breaks his way.



What does that mean?


That while Ainge could deal hayward after the draft, it would not be for Horford as the main piece coming back.



Okay, but that really doesn't elaborate on what if the draft breaks his way. means.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#14 » by Coxy » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:59 pm

Golden State take on a mountain of salary here, so Myers better be sure this is the end game for titles. The issue I see, is Haywards expiring. What does he command for his next contract> If we could agree on an extention before this trade is excecuted, it helps the Warriors pull the trigger. To have a random team come in and offer him a max as he comes off contract just to eff with the Warriors is likely. If we can't agree on a manageabledeal, then he could walk and then this trade would have been a nightmare for us.

On paper, I could dig it. However the salary implications are real here for Golden State and a big risk.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#15 » by patman66 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:35 am

Commodor wrote:
patman66 wrote:No way from Boston, Dieng is not worth his salary, I like him as a player, but his value is 1/2 of what he is getting paid.

I got a Wiggins trade value as something like GS 1st and Wiggins for expiring's Say Dieng and Kyle Anderson


Wiggins + a high 1st known value is a young fringe all star. How’d that drop to mediocre players on expirings?


Heh, it is just my opinion. To me Wiggins takes at least two mid 1st to dump. Dieng and Anderson to me is something that the Griz would give up to get him and the pick. Maybe I could see another Mid 1st maybe on top to the warriors. I think the warriors would be a better team With Dieng and Anderson and the TPE rather than Wiggins and the TPE. I just think that that contract is a yoke on the team.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#16 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:28 am

My first reaction was “OMG a top 5 pick for Hayward”. But when I look deeper, that top 10 pick plus Dieng will probably still leave Boston in the tax. And then Tatums extension will have us there next year when it more than wipes out Dieng expiring. So this deal commits us to the tax in ‘20-21, ‘21-22 and then repeater tax a year after until Kemba expires.

It’s also doubtful that a top 5 pick in this class is as good as Hayward the next 3 years, so this deal hurts our chances for a title over these years where we’re trying to earn Tatum and Browns trust to stay for not just their second but their third deals.

Honestly, I’d rather work out a new 3 year deal with Hayward (and dump some other smaller money to get under the tax one more year) so we set ourselves up for cap space in 3 years when both him and Kemba expire. Better short term competing and still sound ability to make moves longterm.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#17 » by Prospect Dong » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:58 am

Something around Dieng or JV (but ideally Dieng) for Wiggins with compensation is interesting for Memphis. Getting Looney back to replace Dieng/JV is a nice idea.

Sending both our true 5s out is not ideal, though, ideally you'd use Anderson as the filler instead of JV, and I think there needs to be extra minor draft assets going to Memphis to offset Wiggins. Like maybe a second each from Boston and GS and a tweak to the protection of the future GS pick?
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#18 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:07 am

patman66 wrote:
FutureKnicksGM wrote:Like the concept of a Hayward for Wiggins + 2020 first. I think Philly would be a better fit as a 3rd team (return of big Al) or that Danny would low key like wiggins as 6th man


I don't see how Danny would ever think of a return of Horford makes any sense at 27mill a year for his work as a mid 30YOs big.

Now I can see Danny breaking Hayward down to lesser pieces if the draft breaks his way.


You’re kind of stripping out the context of how Horford was brought up.

It was proposed that Boston could get GS’s pick by taking on Wiggins. The pick would be a nice piece to add to the young core, but Wiggins is a very bad contract and his skill set isn’t ideal fit. I know we play Hayward as a wing with Tatum/Brown/Kemba but he’s a point forward rather than an inefficient chucker so it works. Someone then brought up Horford because while he has an ugly contract, he at least brings a welcome skill set to Boston even if it’s overpriced. So in the event Boston was able/willing to land a top 5 pick for Hayward (which would be awesome value) and it involved taking on a bad deal, Horford bad deal is better than Wiggins’ bad deal. It’s not that Ainge or anyone else “wants” Horford it’s just a necessary evil if a trade like this is what Boston does.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#19 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:11 am

Coxy wrote:Golden State take on a mountain of salary here, so Myers better be sure this is the end game for titles. The issue I see, is Haywards expiring. What does he command for his next contract> If we could agree on an extention before this trade is excecuted, it helps the Warriors pull the trigger. To have a random team come in and offer him a max as he comes off contract just to eff with the Warriors is likely. If we can't agree on a manageabledeal, then he could walk and then this trade would have been a nightmare for us.

On paper, I could dig it. However the salary implications are real here for Golden State and a big risk.


Hard to gauge long term deals for him. I doubt he gets any mac offers but I bet he gets pretty big offers. One thing that might help Golden state is that because his next deal will be less than his current salary I BELIEVE he can sign an extension. You guys wouldn’t be able to do the extension as part of a S&T because of hard cap.
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Re: Hayward to Warriors: with Grizzlies 

Post#20 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

I would revise the OP's deal to this:

GS gives: G/F Andrew Wiggins, 2020 1st rounder, C Kevon Looney
GS gets: F Gordon Hayward, C JVal (taken into trade exception), #26 pick

BOS gives: F Gordon Hayward, #17 pick, #26 pick, 2021 1st rounder (lottery protected, top 10 protected, top 5 protected, then unprotected)
BOS gets: F Kyle Anderson, C Kevon Looney, 2020 GS 1st rounder

MEM gives: C JVal, F Kyle Anderson
MEM gets: G/F Andrew Wiggins, #17 pick, 2021 Boston 1st rounder (lottery protected, top 10 protected, top 5 protected, then unprotected)

In terms of money taken on, Wiggins is basically neutral to the combo of JVal/Anderson the next two years (he's a little more but it's not really anything material). They'll still project to have max cap space in the 2021 offseason with Wiggins instead of JVal/Anderson. So their compensation is for taking on that 3rd year. At that point, a big expiring deal could help them swing a deal if they've already used their cap space and our operating over the cap. If they needed to create cap space they could maybe deal it down for 2 smaller players then dump one. It wouldn't be an un-doable task with just 1 year left. They get 2 picks to take on the one year including a player to add to the core now.

For Golden State, they would want a long term commitment from Hayward to justify this trade package. But the fact that Hayward is such a tremendous scheme fit and the draft is kind of weak makes this worthwhile, IMO. JVal can be the new Bogut for them. This move adds some great talent to their team along with their returning stars and really makes them a threat again.

For Boston, they'd probably want another deal lined up to take on either Looney or Kanter. They still have #30 to incentivize if they need to. That, combined with taking Anderson instead of Dieng from the original offer would make it so Boston can get under the tax for one more year. This sets them up to compete for the next 3 years while Kemba is here and then hopefully have financial flexibility around Tatum/Brown/the top 5 pick they get here to add another star for a new window of contention.

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