Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it

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Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#1 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:24 am

Toronto trades: Norman Powell, Pat McCaw
Portland trades: Rodney Hood, Nassir Little, 2020 POR 1st (14)

Toronto moves Powell for a late lottery pick and a nice prospect in addition to a serviceable wing. Portland gears up on wings, gets a great 3rd/4th option in Powell and a good 9th man in McCaw.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#2 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:29 am

Powell is a solid player but there is no way either he or McCaw should be playing SF.

I just don't think Portland can spend their assets getting two players that will permanently be behind Lillard and McCollum on the depth chart.

Edit: However, combined with a McCollum trade, maybe Powell could be his replacement.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#3 » by trwi7 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:30 am

Portland goes for what exactly?
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#4 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:34 am

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Powell is a solid player but there is no way either he or McCaw should be playing SF.

I just don't think Portland can spend their assets getting two players that will permanently be behind Lillard and McCollum on the depth chart.


Maybe there needs to be a third team, then. I assume Powell can guard most small forwards, but maybe that is wrong (or the suggested CJ trade).
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#5 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:35 am

babyjax13 wrote:
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Powell is a solid player but there is no way either he or McCaw should be playing SF.

I just don't think Portland can spend their assets getting two players that will permanently be behind Lillard and McCollum on the depth chart.


Maybe there needs to be a third team, then. I assume Powell can guard most small forwards, but maybe that is wrong.


Yeah, I threw in a quick edit because I figured if combined with a lateral McCollum trade, this might be a good way to consolidate assets for a replacement and overall upgrade the team.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#6 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:36 am

trwi7 wrote:Portland goes for what exactly?

the Norman Powell sweepstakes man!

i'm with you though, this trade doesn't do anything for Portland. I'd rather see if Little becomes anything than trade him and a pick for Powell. Not even close really.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#7 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 am

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:
trwi7 wrote:Portland goes for what exactly?

the Norman Powell sweepstakes man!

i'm with you though, this trade doesn't do anything for Portland. I'd rather see if Little becomes anything than trade him and a pick for Powell. Not even close really.


Norman Powell was amazing this past year. If anyone breaks out, it's him...but Toronto may prefer to try and tempt Giannis and Gobert in 2021 and go to backup options, than lock up Powell.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#8 » by Brandon-Clyde » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 am

This is a truly awful trade for Portland. It doesn't solve any of the issues Portland faces and removes assets that can be used to solve those issues. Powell is listed at 6'4" so won't be starting at SF and won't start ahead of CJ McCollum at sg. McCaw is just a career backup. Again unless you are offering a good SF Portland won't be looking to trade the 14th pick let alone add value unless it is a no brainer type of deal
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#9 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 am

what about 3 way trade of Powell to phoenix/Oubre to portland and fillers/14th to toronto?
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#10 » by psman2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:09 am

Godaddycurse wrote:what about 3 way trade of Powell to phoenix/Oubre to portland and fillers/14th to toronto?


I just don't think a expiring Powell's market value is close to the 14th pick or even Oubre. I think if you posted a poll most would peg him at a late 1st on average value. Some team that envisions him as a starter may pay a tad more but I don't think he is pulling pick 14 even in this draft.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#11 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 am

psman2 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:what about 3 way trade of Powell to phoenix/Oubre to portland and fillers/14th to toronto?


I just don't think a expiring Powell's market value is close to the 14th pick or even Oubre. I think if you posted a poll most would peg him at a late 1st on average value. Some team that envisions him as a starter may pay a tad more but I don't think he is pulling pick 14 even in this draft.


I think people that think that haven't paid attention to what Powell did this past season. Powell is a better player than Oubre, and certainly worth a late lottery pick (and *definitely* a starting-caliber player).
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#12 » by JRoy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:17 am

babyjax13 wrote:Toronto trades: Norman Powell, Pat McCaw
Portland trades: Rodney Hood, Nassir Little, 2020 POR 1st (14)

Toronto moves Powell for a late lottery pick and a nice prospect in addition to a serviceable wing. Portland gears up on wings, gets a great 3rd/4th option in Powell and a good 9th man in McCaw.


Wow.

Portland sends out 2 sfs and a lotto pick in return for a pair of mediocre wings.

Hard pass.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#13 » by loserX » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:20 am

JRoy wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Toronto trades: Norman Powell, Pat McCaw
Portland trades: Rodney Hood, Nassir Little, 2020 POR 1st (14)

Toronto moves Powell for a late lottery pick and a nice prospect in addition to a serviceable wing. Portland gears up on wings, gets a great 3rd/4th option in Powell and a good 9th man in McCaw.


Wow.

Portland sends out 2 sfs and a lotto pick in return for a pair of mediocre wings.

Hard pass.


Powell is the best player in the deal, so calling him mediocre while suggesting Hood and Little aren't, is a bit much.

But to get back to the OP, Powell really isn't a full-time 3. He's not the best solution to what ails Portland.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#14 » by JRoy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:24 am

loserX wrote:
JRoy wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Toronto trades: Norman Powell, Pat McCaw
Portland trades: Rodney Hood, Nassir Little, 2020 POR 1st (14)

Toronto moves Powell for a late lottery pick and a nice prospect in addition to a serviceable wing. Portland gears up on wings, gets a great 3rd/4th option in Powell and a good 9th man in McCaw.


Wow.

Portland sends out 2 sfs and a lotto pick in return for a pair of mediocre wings.

Hard pass.


Powell is the best player in the deal, so calling him mediocre while suggesting Hood and Little aren't, is a bit much.

But to get back to the OP, Powell really isn't a full-time 3. He's not the best solution to what ails Portland.


Powell is also mediocre. Hood at least has (or had, depending on his recovery) an elite skill.

Powell May be the best of those four but they are all pretty mediocre.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#15 » by psman2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:30 am

babyjax13 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:what about 3 way trade of Powell to phoenix/Oubre to portland and fillers/14th to toronto?


I just don't think a expiring Powell's market value is close to the 14th pick or even Oubre. I think if you posted a poll most would peg him at a late 1st on average value. Some team that envisions him as a starter may pay a tad more but I don't think he is pulling pick 14 even in this draft.


I think people that think that haven't paid attention to what Powell did this past season. Powell is a better player than Oubre, and certainly worth a late lottery pick (and *definitely* a starting-caliber player).


I obviously disagree and I think I pay plenty of attention as do most posters on this board. Teams don't give up lottery picks for expiring going to be 28 year old players that have started a total 86 games in their career who has been replacement level for most of it. He has had a good year and if he averages 18+ points on good efficiency and D with a deep playoff run then maybe someone looks at him for something a little higher. But given what he has shown so far in is career I firmly disagree that he is certainly worth a late lottery pick.

I am no big fan of Oubre either, but I think his size and age likely is driving his value higher than it should be and higher than Powell's value.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#16 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:31 am

JRoy wrote:
loserX wrote:
JRoy wrote:
Wow.

Portland sends out 2 sfs and a lotto pick in return for a pair of mediocre wings.

Hard pass.


Powell is the best player in the deal, so calling him mediocre while suggesting Hood and Little aren't, is a bit much.

But to get back to the OP, Powell really isn't a full-time 3. He's not the best solution to what ails Portland.


Powell is also mediocre. Hood at least has (or had, depending on his recovery) an elite skill.

Powell May be the best of those four but they are all pretty mediocre.


Powell is not mediocre.

This season he averaged: 16p 4r 2a 1.3s .4b on 50/40/83 shooting. When he took over the starting job, he averaged (over 23 games) 19/3/2 on 52/44/82 shooting. I get that Powell flew under the radar this year, because I didn't realize for a while how good he is, but he is a really, really good player, and would be an excellent third option (and maybe second option) for just about any team in the league.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#17 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:33 am

psman2 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
I just don't think a expiring Powell's market value is close to the 14th pick or even Oubre. I think if you posted a poll most would peg him at a late 1st on average value. Some team that envisions him as a starter may pay a tad more but I don't think he is pulling pick 14 even in this draft.


I think people that think that haven't paid attention to what Powell did this past season. Powell is a better player than Oubre, and certainly worth a late lottery pick (and *definitely* a starting-caliber player).


I obviously disagree and I think I pay plenty of attention as do most posters on this board. Teams don't give up lottery picks for expiring going to be 28 year old players that have started a total 86 games in their career who has been replacement level for most of it. He has had a good year and if he averages 18+ points on good efficiency and D with a deep playoff run then maybe someone looks at him for something a little higher. But given what he has shown so far in is career I firmly disagree that he is certainly worth a late lottery pick.

I am no big fan of Oubre either, but I think his size and age likely is driving his value higher than it should be and higher than Powell's value.


We have a fairly large sample that says he is a highly efficient player on pretty high volume, and next season is paid almost nothing. Getting his bird rights + production next season is easily worth the 14th pick in a weak draft.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#18 » by psman2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:39 am

babyjax13 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I think people that think that haven't paid attention to what Powell did this past season. Powell is a better player than Oubre, and certainly worth a late lottery pick (and *definitely* a starting-caliber player).


I obviously disagree and I think I pay plenty of attention as do most posters on this board. Teams don't give up lottery picks for expiring going to be 28 year old players that have started a total 86 games in their career who has been replacement level for most of it. He has had a good year and if he averages 18+ points on good efficiency and D with a deep playoff run then maybe someone looks at him for something a little higher. But given what he has shown so far in is career I firmly disagree that he is certainly worth a late lottery pick.

I am no big fan of Oubre either, but I think his size and age likely is driving his value higher than it should be and higher than Powell's value.


We have a fairly large sample that says he is a highly efficient player on pretty high volume, and next season is paid almost nothing. Getting his bird rights + production next season is easily worth the 14th pick in a weak draft.


What we have is half a season of good play preceded by four years of mostly uninspiring play. If that equals sure fire lottery pick value in your book then so be it.

He doesn't have the size to play SF or the play making to be a PG. He would be a backup SG period for Portland. That is not worth the 14 pick for a team like Portland.
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#19 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:40 am

psman2 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
I just don't think a expiring Powell's market value is close to the 14th pick or even Oubre. I think if you posted a poll most would peg him at a late 1st on average value. Some team that envisions him as a starter may pay a tad more but I don't think he is pulling pick 14 even in this draft.


I think people that think that haven't paid attention to what Powell did this past season. Powell is a better player than Oubre, and certainly worth a late lottery pick (and *definitely* a starting-caliber player).


I obviously disagree and I think I pay plenty of attention as do most posters on this board. Teams don't give up lottery picks for expiring going to be 28 year old players that have started a total 86 games in their career who has been replacement level for most of it. He has had a good year and if he averages 18+ points on good efficiency and D with a deep playoff run then maybe someone looks at him for something a little higher. But given what he has shown so far in is career I firmly disagree that he is certainly worth a late lottery pick.

I am no big fan of Oubre either, but I think his size and age likely is driving his value higher than it should be and higher than Powell's value.


Powell's shooting improvement was dated back to 2018-2019, so i think there is more than enough sample size that he can maintain this. I would say he was our 3rd best player this year after lowry and siakam. I would rather Toronto trade FVV and keep Powell, but unfortunately demand for PGs esp via S&T is at the bottom of the barrel right now. Rather than losing FVV for nothing, the only alternative to keeping 2021 FA dream alive is to trade Powell and his production (FVV resigned + pick > powell) :(
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Re: Toronto cashes in on Norman Powell, Portland goes for it 

Post#20 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:55 am

psman2 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
I obviously disagree and I think I pay plenty of attention as do most posters on this board. Teams don't give up lottery picks for expiring going to be 28 year old players that have started a total 86 games in their career who has been replacement level for most of it. He has had a good year and if he averages 18+ points on good efficiency and D with a deep playoff run then maybe someone looks at him for something a little higher. But given what he has shown so far in is career I firmly disagree that he is certainly worth a late lottery pick.

I am no big fan of Oubre either, but I think his size and age likely is driving his value higher than it should be and higher than Powell's value.


We have a fairly large sample that says he is a highly efficient player on pretty high volume, and next season is paid almost nothing. Getting his bird rights + production next season is easily worth the 14th pick in a weak draft.


What we have is half a season of good play preceded by four years of mostly uninspiring play. If that equals sure fire lottery pick value in your book then so be it.

He doesn't have the size to play SF or the play making to be a PG. He would be a backup SG period for Portland. That is not worth the 14 pick for a team like Portland.


(1) per size to play small forward, people have pointed that out, and I've conceded that
(2) but Portland may also trade CJ, in which case this makes sense
(3) or it could be a three-way, e.g. Philly may want to trade Josh Richardson, and prefer a shooting guard to picks/prospects, etc.

I disagree on the sample not being large enough, but that's fair enough to doubt it.
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