Offers for Knox?

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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#61 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:01 pm

Resistance wrote:With Randle's $4 million partial guarantee and Knox having his option picked up this Fall.


RJ Barrett...................$8,623,920
Kevin Knox..................$5,845,978
Mitchell Robinson..........$1,802,057
Ignas Brazdeikis............$1,782,621

2020 Pick #6................$6,432,120
2020 Pick #27...............$2,187,360
2021 Pick #6 (cap hold)...$6,125,880
2021 Pick #27...............$2,083,080

Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000

Julius Randle................$4,000,000
Joakim Noah.................$6,431,666

--------------------------------------------------
................................$48,914,682


I would assume Randle gets stretched. (And then effects future caps).
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#62 » by Saul Goodman » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:36 pm

Duffman100 wrote:I'd like for the Raps to take a flyer on his skillset, but like above, I'm not giving up anything of value for him. A 2nd rounder, but that's also tough with how Ujiri loves pulling flowers from garbage.



Was gonna post this but unless its our 2020 2nd and another down the line along with McCaw its a pass.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#63 » by Resistance » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:43 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Resistance wrote:With Randle's $4 million partial guarantee and Knox having his option picked up this Fall.


RJ Barrett...................$8,623,920
Kevin Knox..................$5,845,978
Mitchell Robinson..........$1,802,057
Ignas Brazdeikis............$1,782,621

2020 Pick #6................$6,432,120
2020 Pick #27...............$2,187,360
2021 Pick #6 (cap hold)...$6,125,880
2021 Pick #27...............$2,083,080

Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000

Julius Randle................$4,000,000
Joakim Noah.................$6,431,666

--------------------------------------------------
................................$48,914,682


I would assume Randle gets stretched. (And then effects future caps).



Stretching the $4 million is possible. It could depend both on how much cap space they want in summer 2021 and if they had picked up Knox's option for the 2021-22 season.

I will post a version with the $4 million stretched later today.

The CBA guru - number cruncher that the Knicks brought in is supposed to be good, so the expectation is that he has already looked at multiple scenarios and passed the info up to the senior FO executives.


Speculation:

I have the new regime as reluctant to pick up the 2021-22 option on Knox and is shopping him. If they do pick up the option and Knox doesn't really progress as they hope, then the responsibility for that failure is on Rose and not on the old regime (Mills).

Yes it wouldn't reflect well on the Knicks to just give Knox away or just for a blah second, but it is easy for the blame to be assigned to the old regime . I have the effort to take as much bad news as possible in the first year as a SOP for new front offices. Somewhat understood cleaning up from what the previous regime messed up.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#64 » by becorz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:26 pm

Knox seems to me like Derrick Williams in Minnesota. He had all the hype in the world, which will get you SOMETHING, but he doesn't have all that much value. If the Knicks can get a high second rounder, they should take it.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#65 » by Knickfan1982 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:44 pm

Resistance wrote:With Randle's $4 million partial guarantee and Knox having his option picked up this Fall.


RJ Barrett...................$8,623,920
Kevin Knox..................$5,845,978
Mitchell Robinson..........$1,802,057
Ignas Brazdeikis............$1,782,621

2020 Pick #6................$6,432,120
2020 Pick #27...............$2,187,360
2021 Pick #6 (cap hold)...$6,125,880
2021 Pick #27...............$2,083,080

Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000
Minimum Salary...............$900,000

Julius Randle................$4,000,000
Joakim Noah.................$6,431,666

--------------------------------------------------
................................$48,914,682


Still doesn't change anything. Would rather take a chance on Knox turning things around than to overpay some veteran placeholder in the hopes he can keep us respectable before we flip him.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#66 » by Rockazoids » Wed Jul 1, 2020 8:04 pm

becorz wrote:Knox seems to me like Derrick Williams in Minnesota. He had all the hype in the world, which will get you SOMETHING, but he doesn't have all that much value. If the Knicks can get a high second rounder, they should take it.
One was the second pick in the draft and the other was the 9th picked in the draft. That's a big difference hype or not.

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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#67 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Jul 1, 2020 8:31 pm

becorz wrote:Knox seems to me like Derrick Williams in Minnesota. He had all the hype in the world, which will get you SOMETHING, but he doesn't have all that much value. If the Knicks can get a high second rounder, they should take it.


I'm still believing in Derrick Williams. Don't @ me.


Seriously though I'm glad the Mavs have always been able to admit their draft mistakes early and they move on. With DSJ they managed to flip him in a package for a cornerstone. Mostly though they pay minor assets to salary dump the guys. But either way its good to be able to recognize you made a mistake and not compounding it by continuing to pick up the options and continuing to waste minutes/developmental staff time and energy on guys you missed on.

And we are starting to see more of that. More teams willing to move on from picks, not extend QO's etc... I think its very smart. Even Philly with Fultz. I know Magic fans seem to be encouraged by him, but the Sixers did right by getting off that money and getting a little something back while they could.

Some seem to think there is no real cost if you don't need the cap space, but that's not true at all.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#68 » by Resistance » Wed Jul 1, 2020 9:24 pm

With the charge for Randle's partial guarantee done at once and with the charge for partial guarantee stretched over three seasons.

RJ Barrett...................$8,623,920.......$8,623,920

Mitchell Robinson..........$1,802,057.......$1,802,057
Ignas Brazdeikis............$1,782,621.......$1,782,621
Kevin Knox..................$5,845,978.......$5,845,978

2020 Pick #6.................$6,432,120......$6,432,120
2020 Pick #27................$2,187,360......$2,187,360
2021 Pick #6 (cap hold)....$6,125,880......$6,125,880
2021 Pick #27 (cap hold)...$2,083,080......$2,083,080

Minimum Salary................$900,000........$900,000
Minimum Salary................$900,000........$900,000
Minimum Salary................$900,000........$900,000
Minimum Salary................$900,000........$900,000

Julius Randle.................$4,000,000.......$1,333,333 (Stretched)
Joakim Noah..................$6,431,666......$6,431,666

----------------------------------------------------------------------
.................................$48,914,682....$46,248,015



Frank Ntilikina and his cap hold are omitted from the caluclations above.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#69 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:41 pm

Rockazoids wrote:
becorz wrote:Knox seems to me like Derrick Williams in Minnesota. He had all the hype in the world, which will get you SOMETHING, but he doesn't have all that much value. If the Knicks can get a high second rounder, they should take it.
One was the second pick in the draft and the other was the 9th picked in the draft. That's a big difference hype or not.

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I would mostly agree. But one was also in Minnesota, which has historically been quieter and more patient. The other is in Madison Square Garden where players get no leniency or leeway to develop.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#70 » by becorz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:56 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Rockazoids wrote:
becorz wrote:Knox seems to me like Derrick Williams in Minnesota. He had all the hype in the world, which will get you SOMETHING, but he doesn't have all that much value. If the Knicks can get a high second rounder, they should take it.
One was the second pick in the draft and the other was the 9th picked in the draft. That's a big difference hype or not.

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I would mostly agree. But one was also in Minnesota, which has historically been quieter and more patient. The other is in Madison Square Garden where players get no leniency or leeway to develop.

It seems like most lotto picks, unless they were panned to begin with (looking at you, Georgios Papagiannis), usually have some sort of inflated value on the trade market during their first contracts. Maybe Chuck is right and teams are changing, but it usually seems like the case. Even a player like Zhaire Smtih, who wasn't in the lottery, seems like he has value even though he hasn't done anything. Dennis Smith was seen as a good piece in the Porzingus trade. Justin Jackson was the prospect in the Harrison Barnes trade.

Then again, you can throw Josh Jackson in my face, but I think he was a special case, given the cap.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#71 » by FutureKnicksGM » Thu Jul 2, 2020 12:07 am

Who exactly are the Knicks signing with the $5million they could save from dumping Knox? Or the $4million saved from dumping Randles deal?
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#72 » by FutureKnicksGM » Thu Jul 2, 2020 12:09 am

Stillwater wrote:
Knickfan1982 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I dont think it is too soon to say hes a bust if he stays in NY. I do think there is a small chance he could be salvaged into a end of rotation player if he gets to a better run org with structure and stability.WHo knows maybe he then cares enough to work for his $ in a small market with less distractions? offer to send him to Memphis with the 27th pick for the the 40th and the rights to Zhelin Wang
Cant see NY doing better than that.



We can do better than that by keeping him. Knox and the 27th are more valuable than the #40 and Zhelin Wang.

no the 27th is nothing in this draft as a price to get rid of a bust.
but if you want to pay him to be a bust then you keep your 27th


So probably in the 8-12 range is probably the price to get rid of Garland.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#73 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:03 am

becorz wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Rockazoids wrote:One was the second pick in the draft and the other was the 9th picked in the draft. That's a big difference hype or not.

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I would mostly agree. But one was also in Minnesota, which has historically been quieter and more patient. The other is in Madison Square Garden where players get no leniency or leeway to develop.

It seems like most lotto picks, unless they were panned to begin with (looking at you, Georgios Papagiannis), usually have some sort of inflated value on the trade market during their first contracts. Maybe Chuck is right and teams are changing, but it usually seems like the case. Even a player like Zhaire Smtih, who wasn't in the lottery, seems like he has value even though he hasn't done anything. Dennis Smith was seen as a good piece in the Porzingus trade. Justin Jackson was the prospect in the Harrison Barnes trade.

Then again, you can throw Josh Jackson in my face, but I think he was a special case, given the cap.


Maybe, but DSJ was devalued from his draft position (he had already been banished from the team by Carlisle at least once). And right now, I don't think Zhaire is valued as anything more than a lotto ticket at best. Justin Jackson wasn't valued as a prospect, he was just a small thing that Dallas could hang their hat on in trading Barnes away (he definitely wasn't a centerpiece in value). I think all those guys were devalued from their draft position by quite a bit, much like a Josh Jackson.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#74 » by NYG » Thu Jul 2, 2020 8:35 am

Kevin Knox and 27 for Nemanja Bjelica?
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#75 » by Resistance » Thu Jul 2, 2020 9:12 am

NYG wrote:Kevin Knox and 27 for Nemanja Bjelica?



It is way too early in the NY rebuild to make a trade like that.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#76 » by -YogiBiz- » Thu Jul 2, 2020 12:43 pm

Kevin Knox, and Mavs 2021 1st for Luke Kennard?

The Pistons go all in on Cade Cunningham, and believe Luke Kennard is unfavorable to getting the #1 pick. I mean, they go all in on trying to develop younger talent. Yeah. That's I meant.

But seriously, do the Pistons say no to getting rid of a guy who hasn't played a whole NBA season in his 3 years and is due for a raise? The Knicks can use the shooting, and all around offense.

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BlazersBroncos wrote:Even with Portland needing a long term fit at SF, I wouldn't move anything of note for him. I would rather see if Gary Trent Jr can shore up that spot and he is more of a SG. But, at least he has shown an efficient offensive trait, good 3PT shooting. Knox can score if given usage that he absolutely doesn't deserve.
While Ntilikina is the discard Knick I'd like to see on the Blazers I would be interested in taking a shot at Knox too. He's never going to be a star but he was actually pretty decent last season is a very different role than this season.

TPE, Simons, Hezonja and #14 for Ntilikina, Knox and the 27 would be my offer. It would have to be consummated after the draft due to the Blazers tax status.


The Knicks make this trade 99/100 times. Because of course this is the actual reality where the Knicks always find to mess everything up.

Simons is arguably the better Guard between him and Frank. Hezonja might be = Knox, but boy he was a fun cat. Doubt we keep past this. Also we get another Lottery Pick.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#77 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:21 pm

The Knicks make this trade 99/100 times. Because of course this is the actual reality where the Knicks always find to mess everything up.

Simons is arguably the better Guard between him and Frank. Hezonja might be = Knox, but boy he was a fun cat. Doubt we keep past this. Also we get another Lottery Pick.


Some Blazers fans are convinced Frank is the 2nd coming of Nate McMillian on defense, when in reality he is nothing close. Frank isn't a PG and I think tempering expectations and hoping he becomes Thabo is realistic at this point.

Its pretty wild a Blazers fan presented that trade idea. If Portland was extremely high on Frank, I would offer the Bazemore TPE and 14 for Frank and 27. I value Frank around a high 2nd, late 1st so the deal is basically something like 14 for 27 and 30, in my eyes.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#78 » by -YogiBiz- » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:28 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
The Knicks make this trade 99/100 times. Because of course this is the actual reality where the Knicks always find to mess everything up.

Simons is arguably the better Guard between him and Frank. Hezonja might be = Knox, but boy he was a fun cat. Doubt we keep past this. Also we get another Lottery Pick.


Some Blazers fans are convinced Frank is the 2nd coming of Nate McMillian on defense, when in reality he is nothing close. Frank isn't a PG and I think tempering expectations and hoping he becomes Thabo is realistic at this point.

Its pretty wild a Blazers fan presented that trade idea. If Portland was extremely high on Frank, I would offer the Bazemore TPE and 14 for Frank and 27. I value Frank around a high 2nd, late 1st so the deal is basically something like 14 for 27 and 30, in my eyes.


I would still move Frank and 27 for just 14 in a heartbeat. I wouldn't even think about it. With Frank, you hope he'd turn into a shooter as good as Thabo.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#79 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:33 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Knickfan1982 wrote:

We can do better than that by keeping him. Knox and the 27th are more valuable than the #40 and Zhelin Wang.

no the 27th is nothing in this draft as a price to get rid of a bust.
but if you want to pay him to be a bust then you keep your 27th


So probably in the 8-12 range is probably the price to get rid of Garland.



This violates board policy against unreasonable counters. Please read the sticky at the top of the forum and let a Mod know if you have further questions. But let's please not do this sort of thing in the future.
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Re: Offers for Knox? 

Post#80 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Jul 2, 2020 3:25 pm

I would still move Frank and 27 for just 14 in a heartbeat. I wouldn't even think about it. With Frank, you hope he'd turn into a shooter as good as Thabo.


The idea of Frank, as a swing guard with enough handles and vision to play a bit of PG, the size for SG on D and lateral quickness for PGs on defense and a competent 3PT shot is literally the ideal 3rd guard to compliment both Dame and CJ. I am just not sold on the idea of him becoming a reality at all. I am not convinced he would play over Trent or Simons. But, if PDX had a second deal that moved Simons / Ariza / Hood for a starting SF, it could make sense. The fit may be so ideal that his developmental track rebounds.

The issue here is that, should Portland make the playoffs their pick will drop consiterably and likely not be enough for NYK to consider the move. And as a homer, I really think they get that 8 seed with Zach and Nurkic back. We will see, but there is enough to like about 14 for Frank and 27 that I may post it separate to see what others think.

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