Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI

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Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#1 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:01 pm

jayu70 and NotaCat came up with the idea of Fournier/15 for 8. I just think Orlando flipping 8 for Lavine improves it for what the Magic are doing and I think its past time for the Bulls to move on from Lavine so I added that portion.

Orlando trades:
Fournier
15

Orlando gets:
Lavine

Chicago trades:
Lavine

Chicago gets:
8

Atlanta trades:
8

Atlanta gets:
Fournier
15

Orlando gets a more explosive perimeter scorer for a mid 1st and gets an extra year under contract.

Chicago adds by subtraction mainly but also gets a 2nd mid lotto pick.

Atlanta gets the perfect stop gap wing and maybe even look to re-sign him for dropping from mid to late lottery.


Note: I think this is too much value for Lavine, but I'm trying to be more open-minded to how the board values him.
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#2 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:16 pm

Ehh is Lavine really that much better than Fournier with all things considered?

This seems like a trade just to say you did a trade.

I’m also trying to keep an open mind and could definitely see it if Orlando wanted to get younger and sell some tickets (Orlando is probably close to the bottom in that regard). Gordon and Lavine and their history should do that.

My issue is that Lavine needs the ball in his hands to be successful which kinda interferes with Fultz development because he also needs the ball in his hands. Also, Lavine is an abysmal defender. Fournier is severally under rated in this regard.

Orlando does need scoring though, consistent scoring at that so maybe this has a counter effect and coaches are forced to lower Vucevic usage rate which is a huge plus in my eyes.

I wouldn’t declare a championship after this trade but could understand the reasons why if it were to happen.
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#3 » by orlando_joe » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:20 pm

from magic view dont see 1 extra yr of lavine as 15th pick better then fournier..but i like fournier more then i should maybe ..lavine basketball smarts not there to me..dont want to come off as harsh like it reads..lol..i am fine with fournier and ross at sg for next yr..rather use pick on sg that can shoot and bring him along..i see cap dropping next summer as well..magic need youth on control money
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#4 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:20 pm

a) atlanta has 55$% chance of drafting in top 5, why do they have the 8th pick?
b) would fournier mind coming off the bench for reddish and hunter?
c) i don't know if he is that great of a fit since he isn't a good defender or that good a playmaker
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#5 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:a) atlanta has 55$% chance of drafting in top 5, why do they have the 8th pick?
b) would fournier mind coming off the bench for reddish and hunter?
c) i don't know if he is that great of a fit since he isn't a good defender or that good a playmaker


A -- for the sake of argument. Obviously the deal would not be made if Atlanta moves into the top 4.
B I would start Fournier--obviously if one of the young wings can eventually beat him out all the better, but he'd clearly walk in the door as the Hawks best wing.
C He's a better secondary playmaker than any wing the Hawks have and while not a great defender, he'd be the best mix of offense/defense on the wing
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#6 » by Skybox » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:04 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:a) atlanta has 55$% chance of drafting in top 5, why do they have the 8th pick?
b) would fournier mind coming off the bench for reddish and hunter?
c) i don't know if he is that great of a fit since he isn't a good defender or that good a playmaker


A -- for the sake of argument. Obviously the deal would not be made if Atlanta moves into the top 4.
B I would start Fournier--obviously if one of the young wings can eventually beat him out all the better, but he'd clearly walk in the door as the Hawks best wing.
C He's a better secondary playmaker than any wing the Hawks have and while not a great defender, he'd be the best mix of offense/defense on the wing


Agree...I think Fournier has been underutilized as a playmaker...check his role on the French national team. He can make decisions and put the ball on the floor. Honestly, I hope ORL gets away from the Vuc-centric offense and lets Fournier do his thing (before giving up on him). Oddly, the thing most ORL fans want is a wing who can shoot and create and, also, to get rid of Fournier who is, by many miles, the best shooter on the squad ...confusing, but count me in and out of the same line of thinking. :banghead:
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#7 » by ChettheJet » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:09 pm

Yeah the Bulls subtract their leading scorer for #8 so they can pair him with #7 and make sure they're even earlier in the lottery the following year. If Lavine is such a negative why in the heck do other teams want to trade for him. No they don't simply move White up as the SG because then they have to count on Arcidiacono as their first guard off the bench and Jim Boylen is the only one who thinks that's a good plan.

Send Isaac, Hunter, Huerter or Ross back and maybe it's close
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#8 » by psman2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:10 pm

Agents talk to teams to get an idea of their clients hypothetical value all the time. So If Evan's camp hears that Atlanta would be interested in giving him a long term contract near his desired number he just opts out and signs the deal with Atlanta. Now Evan may not want to be in Atlanta or rather just stay in Orlando, but I honestly think Evan would jump at the 1st team offering him a 4/70 type of deal.

So I don't see Atlanta downgrading their pick for a player that should just opt out if a contract is out their waiting for him to sign.
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#9 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:13 pm

psman2 wrote:Agents talk to teams to get an idea of their clients hypothetical value all the time. So If Evan's camp hears that Atlanta would be interested in giving him a long term contract near his desired number he just opts out and signs the deal with Atlanta. Now Evan may not want to be in Atlanta or rather just stay in Orlando, but I honestly think Evan would jump at the 1st team offering him a 4/70 type of deal.

So I don't see Atlanta downgrading their pick for a player that should just opt out if a contract is out their waiting for him to sign.


Ha. You found a fatal flaw. And even if Atlanta wanted him only on the short term deal they could just offer to pay him $25M and not give up the pick.

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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#10 » by zaymon » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:24 pm

psman2 wrote:Agents talk to teams to get an idea of their clients hypothetical value all the time. So If Evan's camp hears that Atlanta would be interested in giving him a long term contract near his desired number he just opts out and signs the deal with Atlanta. Now Evan may not want to be in Atlanta or rather just stay in Orlando, but I honestly think Evan would jump at the 1st team offering him a 4/70 type of deal.

So I don't see Atlanta downgrading their pick for a player that should just opt out if a contract is out their waiting for him to sign.

Evan on 4/70 is a bargain, we would do it in a heartbeat. So many people underestimating Fournier but shooting 60% ts on our team is a big achievement. Our front office literally tanked this year with all the injuries, starting pg who cant shoot yet, giving Bamba minutes early on, playing Gordon and Isaac together. Our spacing was horrendous, our point guard rusty and still Fournier played with all star level efficiency. On defense he is 6'7, very smart, gives effort, and on most nights defends opponents primary wing ball handler ( Harden, Beal etc). We were one of the best defenses last year and same this year until Isaac went down, Fournier is not a problem defensively unless he must guard Siakam, Lebron or Giannis.
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#11 » by psman2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:27 pm

zaymon wrote:
psman2 wrote:Agents talk to teams to get an idea of their clients hypothetical value all the time. So If Evan's camp hears that Atlanta would be interested in giving him a long term contract near his desired number he just opts out and signs the deal with Atlanta. Now Evan may not want to be in Atlanta or rather just stay in Orlando, but I honestly think Evan would jump at the 1st team offering him a 4/70 type of deal.

So I don't see Atlanta downgrading their pick for a player that should just opt out if a contract is out their waiting for him to sign.

Evan on 4/70 is a bargain, we would do it in a heartbeat. So many people underestimating Fournier but shooting 60% ts on our team is a big achievement. Our front office literally tanked this year with all the injuries, starting pg who cant shoot yet, giving Bamba minutes early on, playing Gordon and Isaac together. Our spacing was horrendous, our point guard rusty and still Fournier played with all star level efficiency. On defense he is 6'7, very smart, gives effort, and on most nights defends opponents primary wing ball handler ( Harden, Beal etc). We were one of the best defenses last year and same this year until Isaac went down, Fournier is not a problem defensively unless he must guard Siakam, Lebron or Giannis.


If 4/70 is universally seen as a bargain then Evan is 100% opting out of this contract and there is no trades for Evan unless it is a SNT to a team without cap space.
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#12 » by meekrab » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:51 pm

ChettheJet wrote:Yeah the Bulls subtract their leading scorer for #8 so they can pair him with #7 and make sure they're even earlier in the lottery the following year.

Well, pretty simply, yes. The prevailing viewpoint on this board is the talent on the Bulls' current roster is not good enough to build from and they should tank (more than they already have), and LaVine is the only semi-valuable asset (this part is fairly true, everyone else on the roster is overpaid or expiring) so people like building trades with him going to not-their-team.
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#13 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm

meekrab wrote:
ChettheJet wrote:Yeah the Bulls subtract their leading scorer for #8 so they can pair him with #7 and make sure they're even earlier in the lottery the following year.

Well, pretty simply, yes. The prevailing viewpoint on this board is the talent on the Bulls' current roster is not good enough to build from and they should tank (more than they already have), and LaVine is the only semi-valuable asset (this part is fairly true, everyone else on the roster is overpaid or expiring) so people like building trades with him going to not-their-team.


Very solid summary of the situation.

I understand some Bulls fans aren't ready to accept that reality. Fans tend to go one of two ways--they either see most or all of their players in the best possible light or they see them all super negatively. Chet is clearly an optimist and frankly that's the happier option. You get to put off your disappointment until later or you simply create a new reason to believe.

I tend to be in the pessimistic category and so I saw the Mavs post Dirk's prime and pre-Luka as being in a very dark place with no building blocks and no direction. Chicago isn't in that bad of a spot, but not much better. Their future frontcourt has disappointed and can no longer be realistically seen as foundational and Lavine is big numbers/low impact guy capping their ceiling.
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#14 » by dlb731 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:59 pm

Why not just go with ATL and CHI

ATL '20 1st

For

Lavine
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#15 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Jul 1, 2020 7:13 pm

dlb731 wrote:Why not just go with ATL and CHI

ATL '20 1st

For

Lavine


I personally think a Trae/Lavine backcourt to be an absolute horrific idea. You'd like that for the Hawks?
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Re: Inspired by jayu70 and NotaCat -- ATL/ORL/CHI 

Post#16 » by Buzzard » Wed Jul 1, 2020 8:32 pm

dlb731 wrote:Why not just go with ATL and CHI

ATL '20 1st

For

Lavine

I don't think Schlenk is going to do a major overhaul with a starting position. Reddish and Hunter only have one partial season under their belts. He did not invest all the picks to get Hunter plus the #10 on Cam because he projected them to be good bench players.

Another season or two of time, depending on performance, and he might think that needs to be done.
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