Victor Oladipo to San Francisco

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Who would win?

Warriors by a lot
5
29%
Warriors by a little
2
12%
Tie
2
12%
Pacers by a little
3
18%
Pacers by a lot
5
29%
 
Total votes: 17

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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#21 » by Coxy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:43 am

No from GS. Wiggins/GS pick 2020/Minny 1st >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oladipo
Chris Porter's Hair wrote:but in a startling development the General board didn't agree.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#22 » by cjmcallist » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:31 am

DeathLineup wrote:
gswhoops wrote:(2) If GS can get around the Wiggins issue and make a deal for a "star," there are guys who make a lot more sense than Dipo

Name them.

Name those stars that are realistically available for Wiggins, 2020 top 2 pick and 2021 Wolves pick.



Chris Paul! hehehe
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#23 » by Warriorfan » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:25 pm

How many players have come to GS in the past half decade and performed worse.

I think Wiggins will become more efficient and play better D in a winning environment.


Warriors have a I hope gave a healthy Thompson, while Olidipo is a player I like I would prefer the picks. GS has a good recent record with lotto picks
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#24 » by Topofthekey » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:37 pm

DeathLineup wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:If the Pacers wanted to cut down on long term salary by dumping Oladipo, I have the best trade here:

Just don't re-sign him

This trade by the OP basically amounts to Pacers letting Oladipo walk, and then eating Wiggins' contract for two FRPs

Needless to say, it makes very little sense

So it's better to not re-sign Oladipo, let him go for nothing than sell him for a top 5 pick and another high draft pick.

Interesting logic.

Those two picks don't come at the price of Oladipo alone. They come with the price of also absorbing Wiggins' contract, and Jeremy Lamb
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#25 » by DeathLineup » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:23 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
DeathLineup wrote:
gswhoops wrote:(2) If GS can get around the Wiggins issue and make a deal for a "star," there are guys who make a lot more sense than Dipo

Name them.

Name those stars that are realistically available for Wiggins, 2020 top 2 pick and 2021 Wolves pick.



Chris Paul! hehehe

That's actually quite interesting...
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#26 » by DeathLineup » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:26 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
DeathLineup wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:If the Pacers wanted to cut down on long term salary by dumping Oladipo, I have the best trade here:

Just don't re-sign him

This trade by the OP basically amounts to Pacers letting Oladipo walk, and then eating Wiggins' contract for two FRPs

Needless to say, it makes very little sense

So it's better to not re-sign Oladipo, let him go for nothing than sell him for a top 5 pick and another high draft pick.

Interesting logic.

Those two picks don't come at the price of Oladipo alone. They come with the price of also absorbing Wiggins' contract, and Jeremy Lamb

I believe Wiggins can be moved together with the Wolves pick. So in the end Pacers got a 2020 top 5 pick rather than total nothing.

Lamb just got a torn ACL. Major, major injury. Losing him should not be a problem.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#27 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:31 pm

Warriorfan wrote:How many players have come to GS in the past half decade and performed worse.



Sure getting to play with Steph and Draymond and Klay definitely makes life easier for other players. You'd expect them to play better. This is kinda like just about every player who played with Nash or Dirk or Paul. Great players tend to make role players better.

Of course that doesn't mean they should prefer bad players to good, non-defenders, to good defenders, high usage, low efficiency players to guys who fit better.

I have zero issues with all the Warrior fans who believe their organization is currently better than the last 6 years of the Wolves. I think even all Wolves fans would agree with this. I have no real problem with this belief that Wiggins will be marginally better in Cali because of this.

What boggles my everloving mind is those who based on 403 very mediocre minutes with the Warriors have concluded they shouldn't try and upgrade him and that he's their answer as a low usage, 3&D wing when he's literally never shown one indication he can fill that role including in said 403 minutes.

That's the disconnect so many of us have.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#28 » by gswhoops » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:39 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Warriorfan wrote:How many players have come to GS in the past half decade and performed worse.



Sure getting to play with Steph and Draymond and Klay definitely makes life easier for other players. You'd expect them to play better. This is kinda like just about every player who played with Nash or Dirk or Paul. Great players tend to make role players better.

Of course that doesn't mean they should prefer bad players to good, non-defenders, to good defenders, high usage, low efficiency players to guys who fit better.

I have zero issues with all the Warrior fans who believe their organization is currently better than the last 6 years of the Wolves. I think even all Wolves fans would agree with this. I have no real problem with this belief that Wiggins will be marginally better in Cali because of this.

What boggles my everloving mind is those who based on 403 very mediocre minutes with the Warriors have concluded they shouldn't try and upgrade him and that he's their answer as a low usage, 3&D wing when he's literally never shown one indication he can fill that role including in said 403 minutes.

That's the disconnect so many of us have.

I don't disagree with any of this. Where I think a lot of the Wiggins trade here miss the mark is - does [X] return make us more likely to win a championship over the next 2-4 years than either (1) keeping Wiggins + adding Wiseman/Edwards/some other rookie + another high level rookie in 2021 or (2) packaging those assets without Wiggins for a greater return.

I don't see the difference between Wiggins and (I'll throw out a name that's been on here a lot) Evan Fournier as getting us closer to winning a championship than simply keeping Wiggins and adding a Wiseman or Edwards (or Avdija or Okoro or Okongwu or Haliburton) to our rotation.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#29 » by Resistance » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:15 pm

Summer 2013 - Iguodala acquired
Summer 2014 - Livingston signed

............Offense......Defense
2011-12......#16.........#26....
2012-13......#12.........#12....
2013-14......#12..........#3....
2014-15.......#2..........#1....
2015-16.......#1..........#6....
2016-17.......#1..........#2....
2017-18.......#3.........#11...
2018-19.......#1.........#11...
2019-20......#30.........#26...


They should have no problem improving the offense quite a bit, but improving the defense enough to be championship level could be difficult. Just in the Division alone, the Clippers and Lakers are better than they used to be.


There is going to be quite a bit of thankless dirty work to be done with Livingston and Iguodala gone and I am not sure if Wiggins is going to be interested in doing that game after game after game.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#30 » by cjmcallist » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:16 pm

DeathLineup wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:
DeathLineup wrote:Name them.

Name those stars that are realistically available for Wiggins, 2020 top 2 pick and 2021 Wolves pick.



Chris Paul! hehehe

That's actually quite interesting...


Don't tempt me.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#31 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:31 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
DeathLineup wrote:1st deal:
Andrew Wiggins, 2020 1st (or 2nd) overall pick and 2021 Wolves pick (top 3 protected) for Victor Oladipo and TJ Leaf

2nd deal:
TPE for Jeremy Lamb

Warriors acquire another star. This is a risky deal considering Oladipo's injury history and he might leave in 2021. Gamble on Lamb, hoping he can be worthy of his contract when he returns.

Pacers save some money and cash in on Oladipo. They trade the last year of their often injured star for a top 2 pick and a likely high pick in 2021. Bet on their great coaching/development staff to push Wiggins to be a star.

This is inspired by the ESPN article that stated Warriors are doing okay financially during this pandemic. While Pacers' owner is not.


This deal doesn't save the Pacers any money, though. It actually adds salary this year.
Oladipo - $21m
Lamb - $10.5m
Leaf - $4.3m
Total outgoing - $35.8m

Wiggins - $29.5m
#1 pick salary - $8.6m
Minimum salary player for 2nd rounder for Leaf's spot - $950k
Total incoming - over $39m

I appreciate you tried to make it a better type offer by offloading what could be identified as our "bad salary" in Lamb/Leaf, but the inclusion of Wiggins alone makes it a huge negative swap fiscally, no matter how you organize it. You'd really have to find a way to move Wiggins elsewhere for someone that is cheaper, and more usable for Indy.


I might consider this with a few conditions, one Victor says he's gonna leave, or we know we can't afford to pay him, and I could flip Wiggins to a team under the cap for a smaller deal and send them top 10 protected picks from say 22, and 24. That way I get the two higher picks while dumping Lamb and not eating Wiggins. I'd also want to know who is there when we pick in 2020, if it's the 2nd overall pick I'd have to like the guy a lot who is there.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#32 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:21 pm

DeathLineup wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:If the Pacers wanted to cut down on long term salary by dumping Oladipo, I have the best trade here:

Just don't re-sign him

This trade by the OP basically amounts to Pacers letting Oladipo walk, and then eating Wiggins' contract for two FRPs

Needless to say, it makes very little sense

So it's better to not re-sign Oladipo, let him go for nothing than sell him for a top 5 pick and another high draft pick.

Interesting logic.



I think he sees Wiggins as a negative to the team. Would he start? Not if he won't play defense then he's a $30 million off the bench cap anchor, highest paid guy on the team by a good 50% and probably a malcontent. He'd be a bench swingman until he learns to play some defense. Indiana would likely start Aaron Holiday at pg, Brogdon at sg, Warren at sf and the Sabonis/Turner combo at the 4/5.

So if Vic wants out or the Pacers just can't pay him the question is do you put this guy, Wiggins, on your roster and risk him being such a cancer as to damage the other young guys on the team. If he learns to play some D or at least tries, could he be moved in the summer 2021?

It's a big risk having a guy making that much money with 3 years left who is not the kind of player this team normally has.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#33 » by Patsfan1081 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:02 am

DeathLineup wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:I don't think you can get someone of Victor's caliber while offloading Wiggins, even in a contract year and for the #1 pick in a weak draft.


I think you overrate Oladipo a lot based off of this and your other proposal.

So far Oladipo was a one year wonder. We need to see what he looks like post injury.

Honestly even if he was fully healthy and consistent he wouldnt be worth this much in a contract year.

True that BrooklynKidd.

Oladipo only has one great year back in 2018 during his whole career. Then he got injured very often. Let's not treat him like he is a franchise savior, a superstar.


He put up 18/4/4 his second year in the league for the Magic, I wouldn’t say he’s a ne year wonder. He might not be a all star every healthy season but he’s at least a solid starter bob
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#34 » by DeathLineup » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:42 am

Patsfan1081 wrote:
DeathLineup wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
I think you overrate Oladipo a lot based off of this and your other proposal.

So far Oladipo was a one year wonder. We need to see what he looks like post injury.

Honestly even if he was fully healthy and consistent he wouldnt be worth this much in a contract year.

True that BrooklynKidd.

Oladipo only has one great year back in 2018 during his whole career. Then he got injured very often. Let's not treat him like he is a franchise savior, a superstar.


He put up 18/4/4 his second year in the league for the Magic, I wouldn’t say he’s a ne year wonder. He might not be a all star every healthy season but he’s at least a solid starter bob

As I stated in the OP, I see Oladipo as a star.

All I'm saying is that Oladipo is "just" a star. Not a superstar. There's huge difference in valuation between stars and superstars.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#35 » by pacers33granger » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:07 pm

I said it in the other thread, but who are we supposed to pick with the Warriors pick? I don't see a guy who really fits our roster without being overdrafted or the roster drastically changing to fit a rookie.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#36 » by Warriors Analyst » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:57 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Warriorfan wrote:How many players have come to GS in the past half decade and performed worse.



Sure getting to play with Steph and Draymond and Klay definitely makes life easier for other players. You'd expect them to play better. This is kinda like just about every player who played with Nash or Dirk or Paul. Great players tend to make role players better.

Of course that doesn't mean they should prefer bad players to good, non-defenders, to good defenders, high usage, low efficiency players to guys who fit better.

I have zero issues with all the Warrior fans who believe their organization is currently better than the last 6 years of the Wolves. I think even all Wolves fans would agree with this. I have no real problem with this belief that Wiggins will be marginally better in Cali because of this.

What boggles my everloving mind is those who based on 403 very mediocre minutes with the Warriors have concluded they shouldn't try and upgrade him and that he's their answer as a low usage, 3&D wing when he's literally never shown one indication he can fill that role including in said 403 minutes.

That's the disconnect so many of us have.


The biggest reason I'm reluctant to trade Wiggins for a majority of the packages proposed here is that I just can't see his value getting any lower. A lot of the packages proposed here offer only marginal upgrades at the cost of one of, if not, both the 2020 FRP and Minnesota's 2021 FRP. I'm not opposed to upgrading, but not at the expense of our two most valuable trade assets. By the end of the 2020-2021 season, I suspect Wiggins play himself into neutral value territory. Add in the fact that the contract will only have two years left on it and I don't think having him on the team will be the end of world.

I also don't really think he'll be a low usage 3&D wing. The three point shooting I don't trust. His shot is ugly. Something's off in the spin. I suspect he'll actually handle the ball far a fair amount to compensate for his poor shooting and he'll have lots of chances to get to the hoop with the spacing created by Steph and Klay. It'll be a different role for him than the Barnes role, which many assume he'll play.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#37 » by DeathLineup » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:05 pm

pacers33granger wrote:I said it in the other thread, but who are we supposed to pick with the Warriors pick? I don't see a guy who really fits our roster without being overdrafted or the roster drastically changing to fit a rookie.

Edwards, Hayes or Avdija.

Brogdon can play as a shooting guard. Warren can play sixth man as the main scorer off the bench.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#38 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:25 pm

DeathLineup wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I said it in the other thread, but who are we supposed to pick with the Warriors pick? I don't see a guy who really fits our roster without being overdrafted or the roster drastically changing to fit a rookie.

Edwards, Hayes or Avdija.

Brogdon can play as a shooting guard. Warren can play sixth man as the main scorer off the bench.



I'm not convinced that Wiggins is better than Warren.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#39 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:35 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:
DeathLineup wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I said it in the other thread, but who are we supposed to pick with the Warriors pick? I don't see a guy who really fits our roster without being overdrafted or the roster drastically changing to fit a rookie.

Edwards, Hayes or Avdija.

Brogdon can play as a shooting guard. Warren can play sixth man as the main scorer off the bench.



I'm not convinced that Wiggins is better than Warren.



Oh, he’s definitely not.
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Re: Victor Oladipo to San Francisco 

Post#40 » by pacers33granger » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:55 pm

DeathLineup wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I said it in the other thread, but who are we supposed to pick with the Warriors pick? I don't see a guy who really fits our roster without being overdrafted or the roster drastically changing to fit a rookie.

Edwards, Hayes or Avdija.

Brogdon can play as a shooting guard. Warren can play sixth man as the main scorer off the bench.


Brogdon can play as a SG, but he specifically signed with us to be the PG. Abandoning that after he did quite well adjusting to the new role wouldn't be a great look. We also have liked what we've gotten from both McConnell and Aaron Holiday, so a PG just isn't what we'd target.

Edwards and Avdija are likely the only two who fit in any sort of way so those two are certainly good calls. If Hayes could play off ball some of the time to allow Brogdon to play the position he signed up for then he could be a fit too. But none of them are awesome fits for what the roster is and none of them are gamechanging prospects where you just alter the roster (or else they'd never be offered). And just based on Indy's history, management would have to be enamored with a guy from a fit and talent standpoint, which seems very unlikely this year.

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