Best Player for Oubre + #10?

[Stillwater]

Simons is likely closer to being out of the league than being a starting guard somewhere in the league. He just had an absolutely terrible season on advanced stats.

yep in a terribly unusable situation to his stregths. If there was anyone in the league in need of a change of scenery it is him.

I like Simons much less than other POR fans, but a change of scenery to a bad team where he can play heavy minutes might do much to reveal his real potential.

I’d move him a heartbeat in the right deal but I am in the minority.

Yeah it was just an example of a player stuck behind vets that might be more appealing than a rookie if the Suns were actually trying to get out of being a lottery team. Simons hasnt shown much in the role he has been in, but he definitely showed enough flashes and is getting strong enough that I think much of the limitations will soon be shed away and if he gets an opportunity is primed to capitalize.
I get there are a ton of guards in this draft, but there again none have any more upside that will be available at 10 than he does and none for the most part are any more proven than he is even the ones that are older than him right now , at least not the ones that have any real upside as two way players.
The other factor here that threw off the point I was making is the disgruntled reactions by some people that Oubre is worth more. But if he is worth retaining and paying than he should not be in trade proposals with bad draft picks attached as incentives when Oubre would be the only incentive and the 10th pick may in fact be looked at negatively by someone trading for Oubre and they might in fact prefer to have the 17th pick from Boston instead and get a similar low ceiling prospect at a lesser salary.

[jredsaz]

yep in a terribly unusable situation to his stregths. If there was anyone in the league in need of a change of scenery it is him.

I like Simons much less than other POR fans, but a change of scenery to a bad team where he can play heavy minutes might do much to reveal his real potential.

I’d move him a heartbeat in the right deal but I am in the minority.

Yeah it was just an example of a player stuck behind vets that might be more appealing than a rookie if the Suns were actually trying to get out of being a lottery team. Simons hasnt shown much in the role he has been in, but he definitely showed enough flashes and is getting strong enough that I think much of the limitations will soon be shed away and if he gets an opportunity is primed to capitalize.
I get there are a ton of guards in this draft, but there again none have any more upside that will be available at 10 than he does and none for the most part are any more proven than he is even the ones that are older than him right now , at least not the ones that have any real upside as two way players.
The other factor here that threw off the point I was making is the disgruntled reactions by some people that Oubre is worth more. But if he is worth retaining and paying than he should not be in trade proposals with bad draft picks attached as incentives when Oubre would be the only incentive and the 10th pick may in fact be looked at negatively by someone trading for Oubre and they might in fact prefer to have the 17th pick from Boston instead and get a similar low ceiling prospect at a lesser salary.

You just keep digging in. Do you think Simons is starting over Booker or Rubio if he went to the Suns? Lol.

Simons has no where near the value of a lottery pick in this draft or any other. There are at least 7 PGs not to mention a series of players at other positions I would rather select than trade the pick for Simons. Simons may fetch a late first in a bad draft.

He isn't in the same stratosphere as a player like Oubre. The reasons Oubre gets floated in trade ideas on the board have been sighted again and again and it has nothing to do with him being a bad basketball player. To call the 10th pick in this draft negative value is comically ignorant.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Stillwater]

I like Simons much less than other POR fans, but a change of scenery to a bad team where he can play heavy minutes might do much to reveal his real potential.

I’d move him a heartbeat in the right deal but I am in the minority.

Yeah it was just an example of a player stuck behind vets that might be more appealing than a rookie if the Suns were actually trying to get out of being a lottery team. Simons hasnt shown much in the role he has been in, but he definitely showed enough flashes and is getting strong enough that I think much of the limitations will soon be shed away and if he gets an opportunity is primed to capitalize.
I get there are a ton of guards in this draft, but there again none have any more upside that will be available at 10 than he does and none for the most part are any more proven than he is even the ones that are older than him right now , at least not the ones that have any real upside as two way players.
The other factor here that threw off the point I was making is the disgruntled reactions by some people that Oubre is worth more. But if he is worth retaining and paying than he should not be in trade proposals with bad draft picks attached as incentives when Oubre would be the only incentive and the 10th pick may in fact be looked at negatively by someone trading for Oubre and they might in fact prefer to have the 17th pick from Boston instead and get a similar low ceiling prospect at a lesser salary.

You just keep digging in. Do you think Simons is starting over Booker or Rubio if he went to the Suns? Lol.

Simons has no where near the value of a lottery pick in this draft or any other. There are at least 7 PGs not to mention a series of players at other positions I would rather select than trade the pick for Simons. Simons may fetch a late first in a bad draft.

He isn't in the same stratosphere as a player like Oubre. The reasons Oubre gets floated in trade ideas on the board have been sighted again and again and it has nothing to do with him being a bad basketball player. To call the 10th pick in this draft negative value is comically ignorant.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

you mad bro lol
I dont agree at all.
I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.
Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

[JRoy]

Yeah it was just an example of a player stuck behind vets that might be more appealing than a rookie if the Suns were actually trying to get out of being a lottery team. Simons hasnt shown much in the role he has been in, but he definitely showed enough flashes and is getting strong enough that I think much of the limitations will soon be shed away and if he gets an opportunity is primed to capitalize.
I get there are a ton of guards in this draft, but there again none have any more upside that will be available at 10 than he does and none for the most part are any more proven than he is even the ones that are older than him right now , at least not the ones that have any real upside as two way players.
The other factor here that threw off the point I was making is the disgruntled reactions by some people that Oubre is worth more. But if he is worth retaining and paying than he should not be in trade proposals with bad draft picks attached as incentives when Oubre would be the only incentive and the 10th pick may in fact be looked at negatively by someone trading for Oubre and they might in fact prefer to have the 17th pick from Boston instead and get a similar low ceiling prospect at a lesser salary.

You just keep digging in. Do you think Simons is starting over Booker or Rubio if he went to the Suns? Lol.

Simons has no where near the value of a lottery pick in this draft or any other. There are at least 7 PGs not to mention a series of players at other positions I would rather select than trade the pick for Simons. Simons may fetch a late first in a bad draft.

He isn't in the same stratosphere as a player like Oubre. The reasons Oubre gets floated in trade ideas on the board have been sighted again and again and it has nothing to do with him being a bad basketball player. To call the 10th pick in this draft negative value is comically ignorant.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

you mad bro lol
I dont agree at all.
I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.
Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

I’d rather have the pick than either of those guys; Oubre because he will get paid more than he is worth and Simons because he’s more of what POR already has in small offense only guards (except he is also much worse).

[Stillwater]

You just keep digging in. Do you think Simons is starting over Booker or Rubio if he went to the Suns? Lol.

Simons has no where near the value of a lottery pick in this draft or any other. There are at least 7 PGs not to mention a series of players at other positions I would rather select than trade the pick for Simons. Simons may fetch a late first in a bad draft.

He isn't in the same stratosphere as a player like Oubre. The reasons Oubre gets floated in trade ideas on the board have been sighted again and again and it has nothing to do with him being a bad basketball player. To call the 10th pick in this draft negative value is comically ignorant.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

you mad bro lol
I dont agree at all.
I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.
Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

I’d rather have the pick than either of those guys; Oubre because he will get paid more than he is worth and Simons because he’s more of what POR already has in small offense only guards (except he is also much worse).

One thing for sure is the Suns dont know what they are doing at all example : the Suns paid the Pacers to get rid of Warren, while the Pacers used the deal to their advantage to accumulate assets.and their fans have every right to fear the worst...
I think to move Oubre knowing he wants to get paid would take the 10th and all it would get them is a little higher floor prospect stuck behind some vets. end of theory.

Read on Twitter

[JRoy]

you mad bro lol
I dont agree at all.
I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.
Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

I’d rather have the pick than either of those guys; Oubre because he will get paid more than he is worth and Simons because he’s more of what POR already has in small offense only guards (except he is also much worse).

One thing for sure is the Suns dont know what they are doing at all example : the Suns paid the Pacers to get rid of Warren, while the Pacers used the deal to their advantage to accumulate assets.and their fans have every right to fear the worst...
I think to move Oubre knowing he wants to get paid would take the 10th and all it would get them is a little higher floor prospect stuck behind some vets. end of theory.

Read on Twitter

Not sure what Warren has to do with this but ok.

I don’t think Oubre is negative but he’s not worth a lotto pick.

POR has some serious holes and needs quality two way wing talent on good contracts and that is going to be tough to manage. IMO, POR can’t settle for half measures like KO.

[Scoot McGroot]

Yeah it was just an example of a player stuck behind vets that might be more appealing than a rookie if the Suns were actually trying to get out of being a lottery team. Simons hasnt shown much in the role he has been in, but he definitely showed enough flashes and is getting strong enough that I think much of the limitations will soon be shed away and if he gets an opportunity is primed to capitalize.
I get there are a ton of guards in this draft, but there again none have any more upside that will be available at 10 than he does and none for the most part are any more proven than he is even the ones that are older than him right now , at least not the ones that have any real upside as two way players.
The other factor here that threw off the point I was making is the disgruntled reactions by some people that Oubre is worth more. But if he is worth retaining and paying than he should not be in trade proposals with bad draft picks attached as incentives when Oubre would be the only incentive and the 10th pick may in fact be looked at negatively by someone trading for Oubre and they might in fact prefer to have the 17th pick from Boston instead and get a similar low ceiling prospect at a lesser salary.

You just keep digging in. Do you think Simons is starting over Booker or Rubio if he went to the Suns? Lol.

Simons has no where near the value of a lottery pick in this draft or any other. There are at least 7 PGs not to mention a series of players at other positions I would rather select than trade the pick for Simons. Simons may fetch a late first in a bad draft.

He isn't in the same stratosphere as a player like Oubre. The reasons Oubre gets floated in trade ideas on the board have been sighted again and again and it has nothing to do with him being a bad basketball player. To call the 10th pick in this draft negative value is comically ignorant.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

you mad bro lol

This is never helpful, and a really bad retort that doesn't answer anything.

I dont agree at all.

You don't agree that Simons wouldn't start over Rubio/Booker? Or you don't agree that Simons doesn't have the value of a lottery pick? Because, well, both of those are pretty darned correct, and I don't think that's a controversial belief.

I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.

Simons isn't being slept on. He just has played pretty terrible basketball overall. He's had a few flashes, but nowhere near showing that he's worth keeping around long-term, yet. Maybe that changes, much like it did for Oubre, but that's still a very big question. And Oubre got moved for almost nothing until he bounced back and proved that he might have something. Simons likely would cost about as much until he proves otherwise, also.

Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

I mean, the 10th pick by itself is obviously some positive value. If Phoenix didn't want it, I think 25+ other teams would line up to take it on for free. It doesn't have a chance to be a star, but I'd be confident I'd pick up someone at 10 that could help my team long-term.

[Stillwater]

You just keep digging in. Do you think Simons is starting over Booker or Rubio if he went to the Suns? Lol.

Simons has no where near the value of a lottery pick in this draft or any other. There are at least 7 PGs not to mention a series of players at other positions I would rather select than trade the pick for Simons. Simons may fetch a late first in a bad draft.

He isn't in the same stratosphere as a player like Oubre. The reasons Oubre gets floated in trade ideas on the board have been sighted again and again and it has nothing to do with him being a bad basketball player. To call the 10th pick in this draft negative value is comically ignorant.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

you mad bro lol

This is never helpful, and a really bad retort that doesn't answer anything.

I dont agree at all.

You don't agree that Simons wouldn't start over Rubio/Booker? Or you don't agree that Simons doesn't have the value of a lottery pick? Because, well, both of those are pretty darned correct, and I don't think that's a controversial belief.

I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.

Simons isn't being slept on. He just has played pretty terrible basketball overall. He's had a few flashes, but nowhere near showing that he's worth keeping around long-term, yet. Maybe that changes, much like it did for Oubre, but that's still a very big question. And Oubre got moved for almost nothing until he bounced back and proved that he might have something. Simons likely would cost about as much until he proves otherwise, also.

Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

I mean, the 10th pick by itself is obviously some positive value. If Phoenix didn't want it, I think 25+ other teams would line up to take it on for free. It doesn't have a chance to be a star, but I'd be confident I'd pick up someone at 10 that could help my team long-term.

all fair points, but I do not agree the tenth is worth more than what SImons has shown flashes of being even if those are anomolies due to his bad situation in Portland.
way back on April 10, 2019, Simons had his first career start against the Sacramento Kings while the Trail Blazers rested Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum for the final game of the regular season. Simons put up career highs across the board with 37 points, 6 rebounds, and 9 assists. That would mark the first Trail Blazers rookie to score 30+ points since Damian Lillard.

[jredsaz]

you mad bro lol

This is never helpful, and a really bad retort that doesn't answer anything.

I dont agree at all.

You don't agree that Simons wouldn't start over Rubio/Booker? Or you don't agree that Simons doesn't have the value of a lottery pick? Because, well, both of those are pretty darned correct, and I don't think that's a controversial belief.

I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.

Simons isn't being slept on. He just has played pretty terrible basketball overall. He's had a few flashes, but nowhere near showing that he's worth keeping around long-term, yet. Maybe that changes, much like it did for Oubre, but that's still a very big question. And Oubre got moved for almost nothing until he bounced back and proved that he might have something. Simons likely would cost about as much until he proves otherwise, also.

Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

I mean, the 10th pick by itself is obviously some positive value. If Phoenix didn't want it, I think 25+ other teams would line up to take it on for free. It doesn't have a chance to be a star, but I'd be confident I'd pick up someone at 10 that could help my team long-term.

all fair points, but I do not agree the tenth is worth more than what SImons has shown flashes of being even if those are anomolies due to his bad situation in Portland.
way back on April 10, 2019, Simons had his first career start against the Sacramento Kings while the Trail Blazers rested Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum for the final game of the regular season. Simons put up career highs across the board with 37 points, 6 rebounds, and 9 assists. That would mark the first Trail Blazers rookie to score 30+ points since Damian Lillard.

You must have a poster of Simons on your bedroom wall

He may be worth a late first probably more like a second an some cap space.

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[jredsaz]

you mad bro lol
I dont agree at all.
I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.
Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

I’d rather have the pick than either of those guys; Oubre because he will get paid more than he is worth and Simons because he’s more of what POR already has in small offense only guards (except he is also much worse).

One thing for sure is the Suns dont know what they are doing at all example : the Suns paid the Pacers to get rid of Warren, while the Pacers used the deal to their advantage to accumulate assets.and their fans have every right to fear the worst...
I think to move Oubre knowing he wants to get paid would take the 10th and all it would get them is a little higher floor prospect stuck behind some vets. end of theory.

Read on Twitter

This is the best. There needs to be so much crow eaten on this board from people telling me and other Suns fans that Warren was an empty calorie scoring SF who couldn't shoot or play defense. Where they were right was that he didn't have a lot of value across the league because his +/- numbers were **** playing without an NBA roster.

He was moved for three reasons. The first was to loosen up space to add a loint guard. The second was to flip the roster in favor of shooting. At that time TJ wasn't a proven 3 point shooter. Third, Jones wanted a change of culture. He accomplished all three. He did it in a ham handed way.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Scoot McGroot]

you mad bro lol

This is never helpful, and a really bad retort that doesn't answer anything.

I dont agree at all.

You don't agree that Simons wouldn't start over Rubio/Booker? Or you don't agree that Simons doesn't have the value of a lottery pick? Because, well, both of those are pretty darned correct, and I don't think that's a controversial belief.

I have the understanding that Simons is being slept on because of his cicumstances and most of this draft class is being overrated.
But thats just my opinion, and I have no vested interest in the future of the Suns where as you do apparently since its such a touchy subject for you.

Simons isn't being slept on. He just has played pretty terrible basketball overall. He's had a few flashes, but nowhere near showing that he's worth keeping around long-term, yet. Maybe that changes, much like it did for Oubre, but that's still a very big question. And Oubre got moved for almost nothing until he bounced back and proved that he might have something. Simons likely would cost about as much until he proves otherwise, also.

Oubre is not worth whatever he thinks he is worth I can tell you that much is obvious. Simons is not worth much either...but the 10th pick in this draft isnt worth anything of positive value

I mean, the 10th pick by itself is obviously some positive value. If Phoenix didn't want it, I think 25+ other teams would line up to take it on for free. It doesn't have a chance to be a star, but I'd be confident I'd pick up someone at 10 that could help my team long-term.

all fair points, but I do not agree the tenth is worth more than what SImons has shown flashes of being even if those are anomolies due to his bad situation in Portland.
way back on April 10, 2019, Simons had his first career start against the Sacramento Kings while the Trail Blazers rested Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum for the final game of the regular season. Simons put up career highs across the board with 37 points, 6 rebounds, and 9 assists. That would mark the first Trail Blazers rookie to score 30+ points since Damian Lillard.

TJ Leaf put up 28/10/2/2/2 with no turnovers for Indy in the last game last year also on 4/10/19. He's only gotten closer to playing in Israel next year as to being a starter somewhere else. I wouldn't look at any single game, let alone the last game of the year, and especially not when he plays ALL 48 minutes and only 6 players total dressed. Skal put up 29/15 in that same game that Simons had his explosion. We're not talking about him in comparison to a lotto pick.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201904100POR.html

[Scoot McGroot]

I’d rather have the pick than either of those guys; Oubre because he will get paid more than he is worth and Simons because he’s more of what POR already has in small offense only guards (except he is also much worse).

One thing for sure is the Suns dont know what they are doing at all example : the Suns paid the Pacers to get rid of Warren, while the Pacers used the deal to their advantage to accumulate assets.and their fans have every right to fear the worst...
I think to move Oubre knowing he wants to get paid would take the 10th and all it would get them is a little higher floor prospect stuck behind some vets. end of theory.

Read on Twitter

This is the best. There needs to be so much crow eaten on this board from people telling me and other Suns fans that Warren was an empty calorie scoring SF who couldn't shoot or play defense. Where they were right was that he didn't have a lot of value across the league because his +/- numbers were **** playing without an NBA roster.

He was moved for three reasons. The first was to loosen up space to add a loint guard. The second was to flip the roster in favor of shooting. At that time TJ wasn't a proven 3 point shooter. Third, Jones wanted a change of culture. He accomplished all three. He did it in a ham handed way.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

He didn't play defense at all in Phoenix, though, so no one knew if he could. That was a pretty fair assumption. And it took him most of this season to be usable, defensively, let alone turn into "good" late in the year. He certainly wasn't that in Phoenix, nor when he arrived in Indy. And he didn't have a ton of trade value because Jones wanted back 0 salary, and he wanted it completed before the draft, so there were very few buyers.

Otherwise, the long-range shooting was still a huge question mark this season. He really settled into a 35-36% shooter from 3, but feasting in the mid-range until last night's 9/12 explosion from beyond the arc jumped him to almost 40% on the season from 3. Even then, he's only proven after 2 years of massively improved shooting that he's maybe settling in as reliable from beyond the arc. He had a much longer history of being terrible there.

[Stillwater]

I’d rather have the pick than either of those guys; Oubre because he will get paid more than he is worth and Simons because he’s more of what POR already has in small offense only guards (except he is also much worse).

One thing for sure is the Suns dont know what they are doing at all example : the Suns paid the Pacers to get rid of Warren, while the Pacers used the deal to their advantage to accumulate assets.and their fans have every right to fear the worst...
I think to move Oubre knowing he wants to get paid would take the 10th and all it would get them is a little higher floor prospect stuck behind some vets. end of theory.

Read on Twitter

This is the best. There needs to be so much crow eaten on this board from people telling me and other Suns fans that Warren was an empty calorie scoring SF who couldn't shoot or play defense. Where they were right was that he didn't have a lot of value across the league because his +/- numbers were **** playing without an NBA roster.

He was moved for three reasons. The first was to loosen up space to add a loint guard. The second was to flip the roster in favor of shooting. At that time TJ wasn't a proven 3 point shooter. Third, Jones wanted a change of culture. He accomplished all three. He did it in a ham handed way.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

still dont get it... Simons will do the same damn thing after Portland gives him up for a 10th pick in a weak draft and a player that is not the same level of player at the same position as the one they traded for cash lol

[jredsaz]

One thing for sure is the Suns dont know what they are doing at all example : the Suns paid the Pacers to get rid of Warren, while the Pacers used the deal to their advantage to accumulate assets.and their fans have every right to fear the worst...
I think to move Oubre knowing he wants to get paid would take the 10th and all it would get them is a little higher floor prospect stuck behind some vets. end of theory.

Read on Twitter

This is the best. There needs to be so much crow eaten on this board from people telling me and other Suns fans that Warren was an empty calorie scoring SF who couldn't shoot or play defense. Where they were right was that he didn't have a lot of value across the league because his +/- numbers were **** playing without an NBA roster.

He was moved for three reasons. The first was to loosen up space to add a loint guard. The second was to flip the roster in favor of shooting. At that time TJ wasn't a proven 3 point shooter. Third, Jones wanted a change of culture. He accomplished all three. He did it in a ham handed way.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

He didn't play defense at all in Phoenix, though, so no one knew if he could. That was a pretty fair assumption. And it took him most of this season to be usable, defensively, let alone turn into "good" late in the year. He certainly wasn't that in Phoenix, nor when he arrived in Indy. And he didn't have a ton of trade value because Jones wanted back 0 salary, and he wanted it completed before the draft, so there were very few buyers.

Otherwise, the long-range shooting was still a huge question mark this season. He really settled into a 35-36% shooter from 3, but feasting in the mid-range until last night's 9/12 explosion from beyond the arc jumped him to almost 40% on the season from 3. Even then, he's only proven after 2 years of massively improved shooting that he's maybe settling in as reliable from beyond the arc. He had a much longer history of being terrible there.

All thats fine but that backs up my point. He wasn't incapable of being a serviceable defender. He was on a team with a different coach every year actively trying to tank. He showed flashes of good defense often with the Suns. He just didn't have any consistency just like everything else in the franchise. People called him hopeless and it was in large part based on DRPM and DBPM and next to zero actual knowledge.

He turned into a league average shooter like Suns fans predicted he would. Its because he has an amazing stroke. You watch him you knew it would develop.

And absolutely right about the value. He wasn't traded for cash considerations alone. He was traded for $10+ million in cap space before the draft. I would have liked a different method pursued but I don't know what was and was not on the table.

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[jredsaz]

One thing for sure is the Suns dont know what they are doing at all example : the Suns paid the Pacers to get rid of Warren, while the Pacers used the deal to their advantage to accumulate assets.and their fans have every right to fear the worst...
I think to move Oubre knowing he wants to get paid would take the 10th and all it would get them is a little higher floor prospect stuck behind some vets. end of theory.

Read on Twitter

This is the best. There needs to be so much crow eaten on this board from people telling me and other Suns fans that Warren was an empty calorie scoring SF who couldn't shoot or play defense. Where they were right was that he didn't have a lot of value across the league because his +/- numbers were **** playing without an NBA roster.

He was moved for three reasons. The first was to loosen up space to add a loint guard. The second was to flip the roster in favor of shooting. At that time TJ wasn't a proven 3 point shooter. Third, Jones wanted a change of culture. He accomplished all three. He did it in a ham handed way.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

still dont get it... Simons will do the same damn thing after Portland gives him up for a 10th pick in a weak draft and a player that is not the same level of player at the same position as the one they traded for cash lol

By same damn thing do you mean play terrible basketball? Because I believe that.

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[Scoot McGroot]

This is the best. There needs to be so much crow eaten on this board from people telling me and other Suns fans that Warren was an empty calorie scoring SF who couldn't shoot or play defense. Where they were right was that he didn't have a lot of value across the league because his +/- numbers were **** playing without an NBA roster.

He was moved for three reasons. The first was to loosen up space to add a loint guard. The second was to flip the roster in favor of shooting. At that time TJ wasn't a proven 3 point shooter. Third, Jones wanted a change of culture. He accomplished all three. He did it in a ham handed way.

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He didn't play defense at all in Phoenix, though, so no one knew if he could. That was a pretty fair assumption. And it took him most of this season to be usable, defensively, let alone turn into "good" late in the year. He certainly wasn't that in Phoenix, nor when he arrived in Indy. And he didn't have a ton of trade value because Jones wanted back 0 salary, and he wanted it completed before the draft, so there were very few buyers.

Otherwise, the long-range shooting was still a huge question mark this season. He really settled into a 35-36% shooter from 3, but feasting in the mid-range until last night's 9/12 explosion from beyond the arc jumped him to almost 40% on the season from 3. Even then, he's only proven after 2 years of massively improved shooting that he's maybe settling in as reliable from beyond the arc. He had a much longer history of being terrible there.

All thats fine but that backs up my point. He wasn't incapable of being a serviceable defender. He was on a team with a different coach every year actively trying to tank. He showed flashes of good defense often with the Suns. He just didn't have any consistency just like everything else in the franchise. People called him hopeless and it was in large part based on DRPM and DBPM and next to zero actual knowledge.

He turned into a league average shooter like Suns fans predicted he would. Its because he has an amazing stroke. You watch him you knew it would develop.

And absolutely right about the value. He wasn't traded for cash considerations alone. He was traded for $10+ million in cap space before the draft. I would have liked a different method pursued but I don't know what was and was not on the table.

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Maybe. But most of the guys we all know will just turn out great and add massively different parts of their game around 25-27 just never do. We hope forever and it doesn’t happen. When a guy like Warren does, it’s definitely more the outlier, not the norm. And teams will rarely trade on that hope, but usually on what they’ve seen and consider themselves most likely to see.

[Buzzard]

He didn't play defense at all in Phoenix, though, so no one knew if he could. That was a pretty fair assumption. And it took him most of this season to be usable, defensively, let alone turn into "good" late in the year. He certainly wasn't that in Phoenix, nor when he arrived in Indy. And he didn't have a ton of trade value because Jones wanted back 0 salary, and he wanted it completed before the draft, so there were very few buyers.

Otherwise, the long-range shooting was still a huge question mark this season. He really settled into a 35-36% shooter from 3, but feasting in the mid-range until last night's 9/12 explosion from beyond the arc jumped him to almost 40% on the season from 3. Even then, he's only proven after 2 years of massively improved shooting that he's maybe settling in as reliable from beyond the arc. He had a much longer history of being terrible there.

All thats fine but that backs up my point. He wasn't incapable of being a serviceable defender. He was on a team with a different coach every year actively trying to tank. He showed flashes of good defense often with the Suns. He just didn't have any consistency just like everything else in the franchise. People called him hopeless and it was in large part based on DRPM and DBPM and next to zero actual knowledge.

He turned into a league average shooter like Suns fans predicted he would. Its because he has an amazing stroke. You watch him you knew it would develop.

And absolutely right about the value. He wasn't traded for cash considerations alone. He was traded for $10+ million in cap space before the draft. I would have liked a different method pursued but I don't know what was and was not on the table.

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Maybe. But most of the guys we all know will just turn out great and add massively different parts of their game around 25-27 just never do. We hope forever and it doesn’t happen. When a guy like Warren does, it’s definitely more the outlier, not the norm. And teams will rarely trade on that hope, but usually on what they’ve seen and consider themselves most likely to see.

Team defense is different than being a great one on one defender. Most players at this level are capable of playing team defense if they put in the effort; but usually that requires solid coaching and at least one great defender. I cannot speak to the coaching but the Suns never had the great defender while Warren was in Phoenix. Indy does with Turner, Sabonis, and Oladipo.

Warrens bread is buttered on his offense and excellent size to play his position. Now he is on a team with good defenders who play team defense. What Indy does with Brogdon and Warren is what I hope the Hawks can do with Trae and Collins. Add some defenders around them and play team defense.

[Scoot McGroot]

All thats fine but that backs up my point. He wasn't incapable of being a serviceable defender. He was on a team with a different coach every year actively trying to tank. He showed flashes of good defense often with the Suns. He just didn't have any consistency just like everything else in the franchise. People called him hopeless and it was in large part based on DRPM and DBPM and next to zero actual knowledge.

He turned into a league average shooter like Suns fans predicted he would. Its because he has an amazing stroke. You watch him you knew it would develop.

And absolutely right about the value. He wasn't traded for cash considerations alone. He was traded for $10+ million in cap space before the draft. I would have liked a different method pursued but I don't know what was and was not on the table.

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Maybe. But most of the guys we all know will just turn out great and add massively different parts of their game around 25-27 just never do. We hope forever and it doesn’t happen. When a guy like Warren does, it’s definitely more the outlier, not the norm. And teams will rarely trade on that hope, but usually on what they’ve seen and consider themselves most likely to see.

Team defense is different than being a great one on one defender. Most players at this level are capable of playing team defense if they put in the effort; but usually that requires solid coaching and at least one great defender. I cannot speak to the coaching but the Suns never had the great defender while Warren was in Phoenix. Indy does with Turner, Sabonis, and Oladipo.

Warrens bread is buttered on his offense and excellent size to play his position. Now he is on a team with good defenders who play team defense. What Indy does with Brogdon and Warren is what I hope the Hawks can do with Trae and Collins. Add some defenders around them and play team defense.

Sabonis is a pretty terrible defender. And Oladipo was out most all of this season, so Warren was doing it with just Turner behind him positive, and guys like an undersized Aaron Holiday at the 1, with a merely serviceable at best Jeremy Lamb on the wing.

He got coaching, but he improved on his own. And Turner cleaned up after him a bit and minimized his mistakes, but that's not what made Warren a good man defender like he improved solo this year.

[Fo-Real]

One thing for sure is the Suns dont know what they are doing at all example : the Suns paid the Pacers to get rid of Warren, while the Pacers used the deal to their advantage to accumulate assets.and their fans have every right to fear the worst...
I think to move Oubre knowing he wants to get paid would take the 10th and all it would get them is a little higher floor prospect stuck behind some vets. end of theory.

Read on Twitter

This is the best. There needs to be so much crow eaten on this board from people telling me and other Suns fans that Warren was an empty calorie scoring SF who couldn't shoot or play defense. Where they were right was that he didn't have a lot of value across the league because his +/- numbers were **** playing without an NBA roster.

He was moved for three reasons. The first was to loosen up space to add a loint guard. The second was to flip the roster in favor of shooting. At that time TJ wasn't a proven 3 point shooter. Third, Jones wanted a change of culture. He accomplished all three. He did it in a ham handed way.

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still dont get it... Simons will do the same damn thing after Portland gives him up for a 10th pick in a weak draft and a player that is not the same level of player at the same position as the one they traded for cash lol

Since you don't accept any reasons that people give you and your basketball intellect is superior to everyone (By the way, Oubre was ranked higher than TJ on the latest list of best Sf's), then how about a FLAT NO on the trade between the Suns and Portland, reasons be damned. Good luck with your reasons as to why or what you think otherwise.

[Texas Chuck]

There needs to be so much crow eaten on this board from people telling me and other Suns fans that Warren was an empty calorie scoring SF who couldn't shoot or play defense.

I think people are overreacting to a 50 pt outburst in an environment that has been producing some pretty silly offensive numbers.

That said, I am one of said people who have to eat a heaping serving of TJ Warren crow. I thought he was pretty capped as a bench scorer whose lack of defense and range would keep him from being a quality starter on a good team.

I was dead wrong,