Best Player for Oubre + #10?

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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#81 » by jredsaz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:50 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Stillwater wrote:you cant figure it out cant help you... in simpleton terms it means you take a 2nd or 3rd year player for your 10th
I don't see that as a good choice. 10th pick has 4 controllable years on a rookie scale deal and RFA. Plus I get to choose a player that fits my team/system and develop him from the get. Why am I sacrificing that for a project with less control?

Who are some players you put into this category?

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thats understandable probably even moreso than trading Oubre in the first place which I didnt really get the point of,unless the Suns dont see him in their long term plans at which point I have to assume the OP was suggesting by making this proposal.
The contract is only Gauranteed through 20-21 so you will either have to try to move him with the 10th on draft day to say Portland? for SImons and take Ariza and his partial G of 1.8 mil then just waive him before it gets locked in and you have acquired a good guard prospect stuck behind two highly paid guards through 23-24 season.
Or the Suns can do the same thing for somebody else like that if there are any.
The only other options are just taking a bpa wing instead of a guard and dumping Oubre's expiring at the deadline next season if his agent is pushing a deal more than the Suns are willing to pay. The only other play is to let him test the FA market and underpay him when he sees its dried up.
So you think Oubre is such a negative value that the Suns need attach the 10th pick in order to move him for a player who averages 9/2/2 on god awful efficiency and a vet on a non-guaranteed deal (which becomes guaranteed after a trade btw)?

That's just poor player and asset valuation.

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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#82 » by jredsaz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:52 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Why even float such an idea if you think he's injury prone?

"This player is injury prone. I think I'll trade for him"

Makes no sense

It's strange how some people are basically saying "he's injury prone, you should trade him to us", when Pacers don't even want to trade him in the first place
Thread is literally called "best player for oubre and 10" not "what player do you want for oubre and 10".

I would personally have a hard time giving him a max not only for injuries but also for production.

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How can Oladipo be the best player for Oubre + #10 if the Pacers aren't trading him?
Dear god. I literally wrote a question mark after the name Victor Oladipo. I think he gets moved but it's clearly debatable.

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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#83 » by jredsaz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:54 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Sigh.

Y’all didn’t trade Booker at first chance for lesser value just to save money. You sold your GLeague team. Then you’d likely trade an Oubre, or a Rubio well before you trade a Booker, right?
Booker isn't coming off of a serious injury and fankly Dipo hasn't shown near the production Booker has. I think Indy should move Dipo because I'm not sure if he is worth a max contract and with the money situation I would rather keep a good team intact.

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Not a big fan of defense, are you?

I mean, Oladipo has had a 23/5/4 season when he also was an all defensive team SG and lead his team to the playoffs. Bookers best has been a 27/4/7 season where he was a terrible defender and did not lead his team anywhere. I like Booker a lot, but let’s be fair to Vic too.
His defense has been great. I get what you're saying. I just expected to see more seasons like that on his resume and I am hesitant to max him out in part because of that. When everything is right with Dipo he is a stud and an ideal combo guard.

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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#84 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Aug 1, 2020 7:31 pm

jredsaz wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
jredsaz wrote:Booker isn't coming off of a serious injury and fankly Dipo hasn't shown near the production Booker has. I think Indy should move Dipo because I'm not sure if he is worth a max contract and with the money situation I would rather keep a good team intact.

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Not a big fan of defense, are you?

I mean, Oladipo has had a 23/5/4 season when he also was an all defensive team SG and lead his team to the playoffs. Bookers best has been a 27/4/7 season where he was a terrible defender and did not lead his team anywhere. I like Booker a lot, but let’s be fair to Vic too.
His defense has been great. I get what you're saying. I just expected to see more seasons like that on his resume and I am hesitant to max him out in part because of that. When everything is right with Dipo he is a stud and an ideal combo guard.

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Fair enough. The devastating injury he's just now bouncing back from definitely was a killer, for sure. Without that, we'd all likely know just where he lies as a player.
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#85 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Aug 1, 2020 7:32 pm

jredsaz wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jredsaz wrote:I don't see that as a good choice. 10th pick has 4 controllable years on a rookie scale deal and RFA. Plus I get to choose a player that fits my team/system and develop him from the get. Why am I sacrificing that for a project with less control?

Who are some players you put into this category?

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thats understandable probably even moreso than trading Oubre in the first place which I didnt really get the point of,unless the Suns dont see him in their long term plans at which point I have to assume the OP was suggesting by making this proposal.
The contract is only Gauranteed through 20-21 so you will either have to try to move him with the 10th on draft day to say Portland? for SImons and take Ariza and his partial G of 1.8 mil then just waive him before it gets locked in and you have acquired a good guard prospect stuck behind two highly paid guards through 23-24 season.
Or the Suns can do the same thing for somebody else like that if there are any.
The only other options are just taking a bpa wing instead of a guard and dumping Oubre's expiring at the deadline next season if his agent is pushing a deal more than the Suns are willing to pay. The only other play is to let him test the FA market and underpay him when he sees its dried up.
So you think Oubre is such a negative value that the Suns need attach the 10th pick in order to move him for a player who averages 9/2/2 on god awful efficiency and a vet on a non-guaranteed deal (which becomes guaranteed after a trade btw)?

That's just poor player and asset valuation.

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To be clear, a trade alone doesn't guarantee a non-guaranteed salary. However, a team can only use guaranteed salary to salary match the requirements of a trade, so that's where that comes from. If you want to use the player with a non-guaranteed salary to match salaries to make a trade legal, then yes, you have to guarantee that salary.
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#86 » by Stillwater » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:51 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Stillwater wrote:thats understandable probably even moreso than trading Oubre in the first place which I didnt really get the point of,unless the Suns dont see him in their long term plans at which point I have to assume the OP was suggesting by making this proposal.
The contract is only Gauranteed through 20-21 so you will either have to try to move him with the 10th on draft day to say Portland? for SImons and take Ariza and his partial G of 1.8 mil then just waive him before it gets locked in and you have acquired a good guard prospect stuck behind two highly paid guards through 23-24 season.
Or the Suns can do the same thing for somebody else like that if there are any.
The only other options are just taking a bpa wing instead of a guard and dumping Oubre's expiring at the deadline next season if his agent is pushing a deal more than the Suns are willing to pay. The only other play is to let him test the FA market and underpay him when he sees its dried up.
So you think Oubre is such a negative value that the Suns need attach the 10th pick in order to move him for a player who averages 9/2/2 on god awful efficiency and a vet on a non-guaranteed deal (which becomes guaranteed after a trade btw)?

That's just poor player and asset valuation.

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To be clear, a trade alone doesn't guarantee a non-guaranteed salary. However, a team can only use guaranteed salary to salary match the requirements of a trade, so that's where that comes from. If you want to use the player with a non-guaranteed salary to match salaries to make a trade legal, then yes, you have to guarantee that salary.

yep my mistake forgot about the partial having to become full in order to match salary straight up for the over paid Oubre.
If Oubre is worth paying at the end of this current deal why would anyone be proposing moving him ?
My take is he must not be or nobody would be trying to use him and the 10th pick in the weakest draft since 2013 to get an upgrade...
They must rather be trying to get something besides nothing for him and see a player like Simons who is already better than most of the guard prospects in this draft and definitely better than whomever will be available at 10 . He is a project though because he came into the league so young and has been stuck behind Dame and CJ.
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#87 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Aug 1, 2020 9:24 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
jredsaz wrote:So you think Oubre is such a negative value that the Suns need attach the 10th pick in order to move him for a player who averages 9/2/2 on god awful efficiency and a vet on a non-guaranteed deal (which becomes guaranteed after a trade btw)?

That's just poor player and asset valuation.

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To be clear, a trade alone doesn't guarantee a non-guaranteed salary. However, a team can only use guaranteed salary to salary match the requirements of a trade, so that's where that comes from. If you want to use the player with a non-guaranteed salary to match salaries to make a trade legal, then yes, you have to guarantee that salary.

yep my mistake forgot about the partial having to become full in order to match salary straight up for the over paid Oubre.
If Oubre is worth paying at the end of this current deal why would anyone be proposing moving him ?
My take is he must not be or nobody would be trying to use him and the 10th pick in the weakest draft since 2013 to get an upgrade...
They must rather be trying to get something besides nothing for him and see a player like Simons who is already better than most of the guard prospects in this draft and definitely better than whomever will be available at 10 . He is a project though because he came into the league so young and has been stuck behind Dame and CJ.


Nah. He’s ok. It’s likely more that Phoenix has Bridges and Ayton there, as well as Saric and Cam Johnson, and Oubre is still young enough he’s going to really explore free agency, so he’ll either be highest paid he can be, or be gone. Plus, it’s just likely the best kind of consolidation trade for Phoenix to use him rather than a bad salary.
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#88 » by jredsaz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 9:54 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:

Not a big fan of defense, are you?

I mean, Oladipo has had a 23/5/4 season when he also was an all defensive team SG and lead his team to the playoffs. Bookers best has been a 27/4/7 season where he was a terrible defender and did not lead his team anywhere. I like Booker a lot, but let’s be fair to Vic too.
His defense has been great. I get what you're saying. I just expected to see more seasons like that on his resume and I am hesitant to max him out in part because of that. When everything is right with Dipo he is a stud and an ideal combo guard.

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Fair enough. The devastating injury he's just now bouncing back from definitely was a killer, for sure. Without that, we'd all likely know just where he lies as a player.
Absolutely. Starting tonight!!! Excited to watch hkm play.

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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#89 » by jredsaz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:00 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
To be clear, a trade alone doesn't guarantee a non-guaranteed salary. However, a team can only use guaranteed salary to salary match the requirements of a trade, so that's where that comes from. If you want to use the player with a non-guaranteed salary to match salaries to make a trade legal, then yes, you have to guarantee that salary.

yep my mistake forgot about the partial having to become full in order to match salary straight up for the over paid Oubre.
If Oubre is worth paying at the end of this current deal why would anyone be proposing moving him ?
My take is he must not be or nobody would be trying to use him and the 10th pick in the weakest draft since 2013 to get an upgrade...
They must rather be trying to get something besides nothing for him and see a player like Simons who is already better than most of the guard prospects in this draft and definitely better than whomever will be available at 10 . He is a project though because he came into the league so young and has been stuck behind Dame and CJ.


Nah. He’s ok. It’s likely more that Phoenix has Bridges and Ayton there, as well as Saric and Cam Johnson, and Oubre is still young enough he’s going to really explore free agency, so he’ll either be highest paid he can be, or be gone. Plus, it’s just likely the best kind of consolidation trade for Phoenix to use him rather than a bad salary.
This is more like it. Zac Lowe just praised Oubre as a good player on his most recent podcast. He has weaknesses but a lot of upside. The reason he is mentioned in trades is a) Suns have Mikal and Cam b) he has a large enough salary to move and acquire something back c) he has value around the league and d) his impending free agency. Its 50/50 if he is moved. Ayton allows for a three wing lineup and when they play that way its very effective.

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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#90 » by jredsaz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:18 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
jredsaz wrote:So you think Oubre is such a negative value that the Suns need attach the 10th pick in order to move him for a player who averages 9/2/2 on god awful efficiency and a vet on a non-guaranteed deal (which becomes guaranteed after a trade btw)?

That's just poor player and asset valuation.

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To be clear, a trade alone doesn't guarantee a non-guaranteed salary. However, a team can only use guaranteed salary to salary match the requirements of a trade, so that's where that comes from. If you want to use the player with a non-guaranteed salary to match salaries to make a trade legal, then yes, you have to guarantee that salary.

yep my mistake forgot about the partial having to become full in order to match salary straight up for the over paid Oubre.
If Oubre is worth paying at the end of this current deal why would anyone be proposing moving him ?
My take is he must not be or nobody would be trying to use him and the 10th pick in the weakest draft since 2013 to get an upgrade...
They must rather be trying to get something besides nothing for him and see a player like Simons who is already better than most of the guard prospects in this draft and definitely better than whomever will be available at 10 . He is a project though because he came into the league so young and has been stuck behind Dame and CJ.
I just have no idea how you think Simons is a better prospect than "anyone they can get at 10." Thats taking the its a bad draft idea way too far.

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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#91 » by Fo-Real » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:22 pm

Oubre has gotten better every year. This year it can be said was a breakout one but some still don't acknowledge it. Don't know how this degenerated into a Dipo trade argument but none of that **** is relevant because it ain't happening. I have said all along we should keep Kelly, he is big enough to play some minutes at Pf when Bridges is in. I can see the logic of we have Bridges, Cam and Saric so we should see what would be the best way to upgrade but nothing I have seen offered makes me say its worth a ****. Kelly and the 10 are in the sale window, if an offer comes in that makes sense then it makes sense to trade. If no offer is worthy, the Suns should be more than happy tipping off the 2020-21 season with Kelly Oubre wearing a Suns logo across his chest and using the 10 pick on the best available player. I liked where we were without suspensions and injuries, we will only get better playing together longer. Free-agency can be dealt with at the end of 2021!!
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#92 » by jredsaz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:59 pm

Fo-Real wrote:Oubre has gotten better every year. This year it can be said was a breakout one but some still don't acknowledge it. Don't know how this degenerated into a Dipo trade argument but none of that **** is relevant because it ain't happening. I have said all along we should keep Kelly, he is big enough to play some minutes at Pf when Bridges is in. I can see the logic of we have Bridges, Cam and Saric so we should see what would be the best way to upgrade but nothing I have seen offered makes me say its worth a ****. Kelly and the 10 are in the sale window, if an offer comes in that makes sense then it makes sense to trade. If no offer is worthy, the Suns should be more than happy tipping off the 2020-21 season with Kelly Oubre wearing a Suns logo across his chest and using the 10 pick on the best available player. I liked where we were without suspensions and injuries, we will only get better playing together longer. Free-agency can be dealt with at the end of 2021!!
I agree with most of what this guy said particularly the part about Oubre and 10. It's a package that is available for the right offer.

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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#93 » by Stillwater » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:36 pm

jredsaz wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
To be clear, a trade alone doesn't guarantee a non-guaranteed salary. However, a team can only use guaranteed salary to salary match the requirements of a trade, so that's where that comes from. If you want to use the player with a non-guaranteed salary to match salaries to make a trade legal, then yes, you have to guarantee that salary.

yep my mistake forgot about the partial having to become full in order to match salary straight up for the over paid Oubre.
If Oubre is worth paying at the end of this current deal why would anyone be proposing moving him ?
My take is he must not be or nobody would be trying to use him and the 10th pick in the weakest draft since 2013 to get an upgrade...
They must rather be trying to get something besides nothing for him and see a player like Simons who is already better than most of the guard prospects in this draft and definitely better than whomever will be available at 10 . He is a project though because he came into the league so young and has been stuck behind Dame and CJ.
I just have no idea how you think Simons is a better prospect than "anyone they can get at 10." Thats taking the its a bad draft idea way too far.

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SImons IS a damn good developing guard that should be starting as soon as next season but he wont be in Portland.
Maybe your org will see Kira or some other pg as a better option or maybe they are looking to add depth elsewhere who knows esp if they plan to keep Oubre. However given the rebuild has gone on long over time I assume they want some pieces that are farther along in their development and that was pretty obvious with the upper classman picks last draft. Maybe you can take Riller at 10 and strike gold
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#94 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:00 am

Stillwater wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Stillwater wrote:yep my mistake forgot about the partial having to become full in order to match salary straight up for the over paid Oubre.
If Oubre is worth paying at the end of this current deal why would anyone be proposing moving him ?
My take is he must not be or nobody would be trying to use him and the 10th pick in the weakest draft since 2013 to get an upgrade...
They must rather be trying to get something besides nothing for him and see a player like Simons who is already better than most of the guard prospects in this draft and definitely better than whomever will be available at 10 . He is a project though because he came into the league so young and has been stuck behind Dame and CJ.
I just have no idea how you think Simons is a better prospect than "anyone they can get at 10." Thats taking the its a bad draft idea way too far.

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SImons IS a damn good developing guard that should be starting as soon as next season but he wont be in Portland.
Maybe your org will see Kira or some other pg as a better option or maybe they are looking to add depth elsewhere who knows esp if they plan to keep Oubre. However given the rebuild has gone on long over time I assume they want some pieces that are farther along in their development and that was pretty obvious with the upper classman picks last draft. Maybe you can take Riller at 10 and strike gold


Simons is likely closer to being out of the league than being a starting guard somewhere in the league. He just had an absolutely terrible season on advanced stats.
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#95 » by Topofthekey » Sun Aug 2, 2020 6:27 am

jredsaz wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
jredsaz wrote:Thread is literally called "best player for oubre and 10" not "what player do you want for oubre and 10".

I would personally have a hard time giving him a max not only for injuries but also for production.

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How can Oladipo be the best player for Oubre + #10 if the Pacers aren't trading him?
Dear god. I literally wrote a question mark after the name Victor Oladipo. I think he gets moved but it's clearly debatable.

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Regardless, Pacers aren't looking to trade him, so it matters very little whether you think he's injury prone or not
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#96 » by tobysunsfan » Sun Aug 2, 2020 10:43 am

Fo-Real wrote:Oubre has gotten better every year. This year it can be said was a breakout one but some still don't acknowledge it. Don't know how this degenerated into a Dipo trade argument but none of that **** is relevant because it ain't happening. I have said all along we should keep Kelly, he is big enough to play some minutes at Pf when Bridges is in. I can see the logic of we have Bridges, Cam and Saric so we should see what would be the best way to upgrade but nothing I have seen offered makes me say its worth a ****. Kelly and the 10 are in the sale window, if an offer comes in that makes sense then it makes sense to trade. If no offer is worthy, the Suns should be more than happy tipping off the 2020-21 season with Kelly Oubre wearing a Suns logo across his chest and using the 10 pick on the best available player. I liked where we were without suspensions and injuries, we will only get better playing together longer. Free-agency can be dealt with at the end of 2021!!

I agree, the Suns already have a top-10 5-man line-up in Rubio-Booker-Oubre-Bridges-Ayton. We shouldn't mess with that without good reason.
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#97 » by NotACat » Sun Aug 2, 2020 11:49 am

tobysunsfan wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:Oubre has gotten better every year. This year it can be said was a breakout one but some still don't acknowledge it. Don't know how this degenerated into a Dipo trade argument but none of that **** is relevant because it ain't happening. I have said all along we should keep Kelly, he is big enough to play some minutes at Pf when Bridges is in. I can see the logic of we have Bridges, Cam and Saric so we should see what would be the best way to upgrade but nothing I have seen offered makes me say its worth a ****. Kelly and the 10 are in the sale window, if an offer comes in that makes sense then it makes sense to trade. If no offer is worthy, the Suns should be more than happy tipping off the 2020-21 season with Kelly Oubre wearing a Suns logo across his chest and using the 10 pick on the best available player. I liked where we were without suspensions and injuries, we will only get better playing together longer. Free-agency can be dealt with at the end of 2021!!

I agree, the Suns already have a top-10 5-man line-up in Rubio-Booker-Oubre-Bridges-Ayton. We shouldn't mess with that without good reason.

Their lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Cam, and Ayton projects to be better going forward
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#98 » by Damkac » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:20 pm

Oubre + 10th for cash
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#99 » by Stillwater » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:00 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jredsaz wrote:I just have no idea how you think Simons is a better prospect than "anyone they can get at 10." Thats taking the its a bad draft idea way too far.

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SImons IS a damn good developing guard that should be starting as soon as next season but he wont be in Portland.
Maybe your org will see Kira or some other pg as a better option or maybe they are looking to add depth elsewhere who knows esp if they plan to keep Oubre. However given the rebuild has gone on long over time I assume they want some pieces that are farther along in their development and that was pretty obvious with the upper classman picks last draft. Maybe you can take Riller at 10 and strike gold


Simons is likely closer to being out of the league than being a starting guard somewhere in the league. He just had an absolutely terrible season on advanced stats.

yep in a terribly unusable situation to his stregths. If there was anyone in the league in need of a change of scenery it is him.
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Re: Best Player for Oubre + #10? 

Post#100 » by JRoy » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:11 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Stillwater wrote:SImons IS a damn good developing guard that should be starting as soon as next season but he wont be in Portland.
Maybe your org will see Kira or some other pg as a better option or maybe they are looking to add depth elsewhere who knows esp if they plan to keep Oubre. However given the rebuild has gone on long over time I assume they want some pieces that are farther along in their development and that was pretty obvious with the upper classman picks last draft. Maybe you can take Riller at 10 and strike gold


Simons is likely closer to being out of the league than being a starting guard somewhere in the league. He just had an absolutely terrible season on advanced stats.

yep in a terribly unusable situation to his stregths. If there was anyone in the league in need of a change of scenery it is him.


I like Simons much less than other POR fans, but a change of scenery to a bad team where he can play heavy minutes might do much to reveal his real potential.

I’d move him a heartbeat in the right deal but I am in the minority.

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