Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall

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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#61 » by rugbyrugger23 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:16 pm

Rockazoids wrote:
Mr Puddles wrote:
E S V L wrote:
The Nicks package is way better than the one from the Suns you referred to. I believe that Barret will likely become a Kawai type of player, whereas Okongwu can be the next Clarke.


It might be your personal opinion that Barret will likely become a Kawai type player, but his actual performance thus far puts him stratospheres away from reaching that level of play. His rookie year was slightly better than Josh Jackson's rookie season.

Not saying that Barrett can't improve, but as of right now he doesn't have the kind of value you're attributing to him.

A rookie RJ Barrett
14.3 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 2.6 APG, 1.0 SPG, 40.2 FG%, 32.0 3P%, 61.4 FT%, 47.9 TS%

A rookie Brandon Ingram
9.4 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 2.1 APG, 0.6 SPG, 40.2 FG%, 29.4 3P%, 62.2 FT% , 47.4 TS%

20/19 Brandon Ingram
24.2 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.0 SPG , 46.4 FG%, 38.4 3P%, 85.8 FT%, 58.8 TS%

Look how far a rookie Ingram has come.

You realize anyone — who cared enough — could post even better rookie stats for a gang load of players who are not even in the league or barely hanging on. Development is not linear nor guaranteed.

One could also post stats for superstars now that looked like bench warmers as rookie and sophomore players.

Note: this is not a knock on Barrett, just stating the obvious.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#62 » by Knickfan1982 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:35 pm

Showtime23 wrote:JJJ, Ayton, Beal, Oladipo


J. Jonah Jamison. I don't want to trade for Spider Man's enemy. He's the only one keeping us safe.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#63 » by Knickfan1982 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:37 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:This doesnt involve RJ, but what about:

SAC TRADES
Buddy Hield (24M)
#12

NYK TRADES
Bobby Portis (15M EC)
Kevin Knox (4.6M TO)
Reggie Bullock (4.2M EC)
#6
#27

SAC gets some expirings to clear money and resign Bogdan. They move up to #6 to draft Deni Avdija, use 27 on Desmond Bane.

G - DeAaron Fox / Cory Joseph
G - Bogdan Bogdanovic / Desmond Bane
F - Deni Avdija / Reggie Bullock
F - Harrison Barnes / Nemanja Bjelica / Bobby Portis
C - Richaun Holmes / Marvin Bagley / Bobby Portis

NYK moves down for a huge needed 3PT shotting boost in the arm in Hield. They use #12 on Cole Anthony and 38 on Robert Woodard and pay Christian Wood some decent money on a big, shorter term deal.

G - Cole Anthony / Frank Ntilikina / Dennis Smith Jr
G - Buddy Hield / Frank Ntilikina / Wayne Ellington
F - RJ Barrett / Robert Woodard / Ignas Brazdeikis
F - Christian Wood / Taj Gibson / (Robert Woodard)
C - Mitchell Robinson / Julius Randle / (Taj Gibson)


I think that's a bit high.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#64 » by Knickfan1982 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:38 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:This can be done without GSW involved, but if Bulls are going tank, why not...

To GSW: OPJ + Sato (via TPE) + #27 (2020 Clippers FRP via Knicks)

To Bulls: Wiggins + Barrett + #6 (2020 Knicks FRP)

To Knicks: LaVine + #3 (2020 GSW FRP)



Warriors swap out Wiggins for OPJ at cost of their FRP. They give him and Sato a try or have non negative trade ballast + 2021 Wolves FRP + Own FFRP for subsequent consolidation trade.

Bulls give Barrett with White backcourt a try while getting back-to-back FRPs. Either draft 2x players of the future or consolidate and move up draft board.

Knicks give Thibs a win-now guy in LaVine and move up in draft so he can draft his guy.

While I utterly hate the premise this is not awful if we manage to get Lamelo Ball.

That's actually not horrible
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#65 » by Knickfan1982 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:40 pm

E S V L wrote:
NYG wrote:Who is the best player the Knicks could get for Barrett and 6? No need to match salary.


If the Memphis management sees Barret as SF and Okongwu as an elite big, it can decide to offer Jaren Jackson Jr.


Jackson doesn't have enough control left to sacrifice a lotto pick and a recent lotto pick.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#66 » by Knickfan1982 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:40 pm

ChettheJet wrote:Bulls offer up a second round pick to go with Zach Lavine and Thad Young. Lavine is either a no defense one dimensional player that Thibs would hate, or he's one of the guys Thibs wishes he hadn't traded in MINN, both opinions show up here. Young is a steady veteran PF off the bench who could fill in start for a team being built from nowhere. Do the Knicks like Kris Dunn, work him in and send back Kevin Knox who either is a bust or a building block depending on who is posting.

Until there's some kind of hint what direction the Knicks are going to take, who knows what a good offer is.


Lavine, Young and a second rounder for Barrett and the #6?

That's not a serious offer. Young is expensive and not at all interesting.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#67 » by E S V L » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:54 pm

Knickfan1982 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
NYG wrote:Who is the best player the Knicks could get for Barrett and 6? No need to match salary.


If the Memphis management sees Barret as SF and Okongwu as an elite big, it can decide to offer Jaren Jackson Jr.


Jackson doesn't have enough control left to sacrifice a lotto pick and a recent lotto pick.


Could you please kindly elaborate on what this 20y old PO starter at PF hasn’t sacrificed yet?
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#68 » by Buzzard » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:12 pm

NYG wrote:
Catchall wrote:It's probably too early to trade Barrett. It's not clear what kind of player he'll be. Rookies usually take strides by their 3rd season. People were questioning Tatum his first two seasons. Barrett could be pretty special if he keeps developing.


What about the 6th Overall Pick on its own?

6th Overall = Which Veteran? Keep in mind salary matching isn’t necessary

I am not sure #6 gets you any kind of really good vet still in his prime. Maybe Houston cutting cost with Covington and Gordon but neither are in their prime.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#69 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:25 pm

This is a tough valuation if only because I strongly believe most people here aren't too familiar with Barrett and are not even sure what to expect of him.

I personally think this kid will become a quality starter at the very, very least, and on both ends. He's got the physical tools, smarts, and is very coachable, not to mention a hard worker.

I also think he needs a proper coaching and development team around him in NY in order to really thrive, which I don't believe he has at the moment.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#70 » by BlazersBroncos » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:54 pm

A rookie RJ Barrett
14.3 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 2.6 APG, 1.0 SPG, 40.2 FG%, 32.0 3P%, 61.4 FT%, 47.9 TS%

A rookie Brandon Ingram
9.4 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 2.1 APG, 0.6 SPG, 40.2 FG%, 29.4 3P%, 62.2 FT% , 47.4 TS%


Brandon was like a baby bird trying to understand how to exist as a rookie. He had much, much better and more unique physical tools than RJ.

Barrett was touted as more or less NBA ready but is scoring 14ppg on 13 shots per game with a TS under .50. His passing has been a huge disappointment as well.

I think RJ is going to be a quality NBA starter, but I will eat my own face if he ever manages 24ppg. He looks like a utility guy, and if he develops into a 3rd option on a good team, that should be seen as a win. He has so far to go though. Its been a pretty poor year for him, but his teammates don't help much.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#71 » by Buzzard » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:51 pm

PistolPeteJR wrote:This is a tough valuation if only because I strongly believe most people here aren't too familiar with Barrett and are not even sure what to expect of him.

I personally think this kid will become a quality starter at the very, very least, and on both ends. He's got the physical tools, smarts, and is very coachable, not to mention a hard worker.

I also think he needs a proper coaching and development team around him in NY in order to really thrive, which I don't believe he has at the moment.

I was bashed pretty hard after the draft for stating Hunter and Reddish could end up being better than RJ. Could is a key word, as I never said they were locks for that. My reasoning was simple. Both Hunter and Reddish shot better in college from three and the charity stripe than Barrett.

My concern about Barrett not being able to shoot has not changed during his rookie season. I like Barrett's physical tools but he needs to spend a full off season doing nothing but shooting free throws and threes.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#72 » by rugbyrugger23 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:53 pm

Buzzard wrote:
NYG wrote:
Catchall wrote:It's probably too early to trade Barrett. It's not clear what kind of player he'll be. Rookies usually take strides by their 3rd season. People were questioning Tatum his first two seasons. Barrett could be pretty special if he keeps developing.


What about the 6th Overall Pick on its own?

6th Overall = Which Veteran? Keep in mind salary matching isn’t necessary

I am not sure #6 gets you any kind of really good vet still in his prime. Maybe Houston cutting cost with Covington and Gordon but neither are in their prime.

#6 for LaVine. Add all kinds of combinations of rostered players on both sides to taste.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#73 » by Buzzard » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:00 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
NYG wrote:
What about the 6th Overall Pick on its own?

6th Overall = Which Veteran? Keep in mind salary matching isn’t necessary

I am not sure #6 gets you any kind of really good vet still in his prime. Maybe Houston cutting cost with Covington and Gordon but neither are in their prime.

#6 for LaVine. Add all kinds of combinations of rostered players on both sides to taste.

This is probably a best case type deal for both teams. Providing the Bulls want to start a rebuild.
"Offense sells tickets, defense wins games, rebounding wins championships." Pat Summitt

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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#74 » by Crizzle » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:22 pm

Knickfan1982 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
NYG wrote:Who is the best player the Knicks could get for Barrett and 6? No need to match salary.


If the Memphis management sees Barret as SF and Okongwu as an elite big, it can decide to offer Jaren Jackson Jr.


Jackson doesn't have enough control left to sacrifice a lotto pick and a recent lotto pick.



lol whut?
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#75 » by drosestruts » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:35 pm

Buzzard wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:I am not sure #6 gets you any kind of really good vet still in his prime. Maybe Houston cutting cost with Covington and Gordon but neither are in their prime.

#6 for LaVine. Add all kinds of combinations of rostered players on both sides to taste.

This is probably a best case type deal for both teams. Providing the Bulls want to start a rebuild.


I personally like Zach LaVine but have honestly no idea how the new front office may view him, and if you were to move him to kick start a rebuild, I'm hard-pressed to imagine you'd be able to do much better than the #6 pick.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#76 » by Skin » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:50 pm

NYG wrote:Who is the best player the Knicks could get for Barrett and 6? No need to match salary.

The Knicks have to let the rebuild happen. Looking for a quick fix is not the way to go. Maybe you end up with a Top 3 pick, even. Part of me wants to see what LaMelo Ball would look like on the Knicks. hah
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#77 » by Buzzard » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 pm

Skin wrote:
NYG wrote:Who is the best player the Knicks could get for Barrett and 6? No need to match salary.

The Knicks have to let the rebuild happen. Looking for a quick fix is not the way to go. Maybe you end up with a Top 3 pick, even. Part of me wants to see what LaMelo Ball would look like on the Knicks. hah

I agree, you have to take your swings in the lottery until some of them pan out. Otherwise you risk ending up like the Magic when they traded for Ibaka.
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#78 » by Skin » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:39 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Skin wrote:
NYG wrote:Who is the best player the Knicks could get for Barrett and 6? No need to match salary.

The Knicks have to let the rebuild happen. Looking for a quick fix is not the way to go. Maybe you end up with a Top 3 pick, even. Part of me wants to see what LaMelo Ball would look like on the Knicks. hah

I agree, you have to take your swings in the lottery until some of them pan out. Otherwise you risk ending up like the Magic when they traded for Ibaka.

Bingo, Jingo, Jango!
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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#79 » by Buzzard » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:44 pm

Skin wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Skin wrote:The Knicks have to let the rebuild happen. Looking for a quick fix is not the way to go. Maybe you end up with a Top 3 pick, even. Part of me wants to see what LaMelo Ball would look like on the Knicks. hah

I agree, you have to take your swings in the lottery until some of them pan out. Otherwise you risk ending up like the Magic when they traded for Ibaka.

Bingo, Jingo, Jango!

I know the Ibaka reference hurt you but it is true about what they did back then. The only good thing I see with the Knicks adding Lavine for 6, is if Thibs can get Barrett and Michell turned around quick and playing well.

If not, they are wasting 19.5 million a season to still be a lottery team; while also being one prospect shorter than what they had before the trade.
"Offense sells tickets, defense wins games, rebounding wins championships." Pat Summitt

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Re: Best Player For RJ Barrett and 6th Overall 

Post#80 » by Knickfan1982 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:53 pm

E S V L wrote:
Knickfan1982 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
If the Memphis management sees Barret as SF and Okongwu as an elite big, it can decide to offer Jaren Jackson Jr.


Jackson doesn't have enough control left to sacrifice a lotto pick and a recent lotto pick.


Could you please kindly elaborate on what this 20y old PO starter at PF hasn’t sacrificed yet?



At least 2 years of control.

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