Jazz / Magic draft day

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Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#1 » by Catchall » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:00 am

ORL trades Al Farouq Aminu + #17 pick (where I predict they'll be drafting after the bubble)

UTA trades Royce O'Neale + #23 (again, where I predict they'll be drafting)

Rationale for Orlando: Add a solid 3D wing who guards 1 - 4. Clear a bit of log jam at the 4.

Rationale for Utah: Move up several spots in the draft and add a backup with more size to balance the roster.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#2 » by Godaddycurse » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:27 am

seems really bad for utah. I have oneale as more valuable than moving up 6 spots given his contract, and aminu as negative value.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#3 » by Skin » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:00 am

I admit I don't know what makes O'Neale a desirable trade target. This feels like the trade offers I used to make. Vucevic + 1st pick to move up any amount of spots... but those never get traction so I can't see this being doable either. A SF who averages 6.3 ppg in his 3rd year and doesn't have a 7' wingspan (an Orlando must) doesn't work.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#4 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:14 pm

This might be a good trade; Aminu just might work out in Utah but they aren't a gambling-type team in general and they seem to like Oneal. So I suspect they say no. Utah is, in my opinion, the most team-oriented NBA team - so personalities are vital.

Not to sure about Orlando making this deal, but they might. The higher draft pick just might be the most valuable piece of this deal. So Orlando will probably say no.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#5 » by tiderulz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:18 pm

Catchall wrote:ORL trades Al Farouq Aminu + #17 pick (where I predict they'll be drafting after the bubble)

UTA trades Royce O'Neale + #23 (again, where I predict they'll be drafting)

Rationale for Orlando: Add a solid 3D wing who guards 1 - 4. Clear a bit of log jam at the 4.

Rationale for Utah: Move up several spots in the draft and add a backup with more size to balance the roster.

sorry, Oneal is 6'4, i cant see him guarding the 4 spot. Aminu a proven starter/6th man, I dont think Oneal has proven that. Yes Aminu got hurt, but should be okay coming back into next year.

I pass if im Orlando, take Kira Lewis at #17 and call it a day.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#6 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:26 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:seems really bad for utah. I have oneale as more valuable than moving up 6 spots given his contract, and aminu as negative value.



Yeah I'm always going to have a soft spot for Aminu, but Royce is clearly the superior player at this point, locked into a great contract and moving up this little this deep holds minimal value. I don't get this for Utah in the slightest.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#7 » by NotACat » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:27 pm

I can't see any team wanting to move back 6 spots in the draft to swap backup role players that has a marginal impact on the team.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#8 » by Godaddycurse » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:30 pm

NotACat wrote:I can't see any team wanting to move back 6 spots in the draft to swap backup role players that has a marginal impact on the team.


To be fair Oneale on the starting lineup instead of Conley made the Jazz much more effective and helped cover up bogdanovic's deficiency. I agree with OP's premise that jazz need more size at the 4 but i dont think aminu is that guy.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#9 » by tiderulz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:30 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:seems really bad for utah. I have oneale as more valuable than moving up 6 spots given his contract, and aminu as negative value.



Yeah I'm always going to have a soft spot for Aminu, but Royce is clearly the superior player at this point, locked into a great contract and moving up this little this deep holds minimal value. I don't get this for Utah in the slightest.

can i ask how you define that Royce is "clearly superior player"?
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#10 » by NotACat » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:32 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
NotACat wrote:I can't see any team wanting to move back 6 spots in the draft to swap backup role players that has a marginal impact on the team.


To be fair Oneale on the starting lineup instead of Conley made the Jazz much more effective and helped cover up bogdanovic's deficiency. I agree with OP's premise that jazz need more size at the 4 but i dont think aminu is that guy.

I'm not doubting Oneale is a good player, but I don't think he's worth moving back 6 spots in the draft for when Orlando also has Chuma Okeke who hasn't even started his rookie contract.


EDIT: Thinking more about this, if Oneale could start at the 2 and play next next to Chuma and Isaac, this is a great deal for Orlando. I haven't watched him enough to know about his agility though
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#11 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:33 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:seems really bad for utah. I have oneale as more valuable than moving up 6 spots given his contract, and aminu as negative value.



Yeah I'm always going to have a soft spot for Aminu, but Royce is clearly the superior player at this point, locked into a great contract and moving up this little this deep holds minimal value. I don't get this for Utah in the slightest.

can i ask how you define that Royce is "clearly superior player"?


I don't want to be trite, but he's better at playing basketball....

To get into specifics he's a better defender and a more consistent shooter -- the two most important traits for a role player.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#12 » by NotACat » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:34 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:seems really bad for utah. I have oneale as more valuable than moving up 6 spots given his contract, and aminu as negative value.



Yeah I'm always going to have a soft spot for Aminu, but Royce is clearly the superior player at this point, locked into a great contract and moving up this little this deep holds minimal value. I don't get this for Utah in the slightest.

can i ask how you define that Royce is "clearly superior player"?

While he's much smaller, he's still a great defender and has shot 39% from 3pt range on 3 attempts a game. Aminu will never bring that kind of spacing
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#13 » by eminence » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:52 pm

If Aminu wasn't coming off a fairly serious injury then maybe, as of now he's got negative value imo though and moving up a few spots in the mid 1st is not a huge deal. Bad deal for Utah.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#14 » by KqWIN » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:31 pm

Terrible deal for Utah. Royce is a crucial player for the Jazz going forward on a reasonable contract. Aminu just missed most of the season and is about to turn 30. I would consider his deal a negative.

As crazy as it sounds, I'm expecting Royce O'Neale to be UTA's 3rd most valuable/best player next season. He might already be there.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#15 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:38 pm

Ehh what is the real difference between O'Neal and a player like James Ennis taking into consideration the current makeup of the team?

I don't think the difference warrants dropping 6 spots.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#16 » by loserX » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:41 pm

Yeah, not to pile on, but I don't like it for Utah either. I don't hate Aminu and yes we could use a legit 4, but to me the difference between Royce and Aminu (especially coming off last season) is bigger than the difference between #17 and #23 in this draft.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#17 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:48 pm

Royce is an excellent defender. He has posted a 2.1 DBPM the past two seasons. That is very, very good for a swingman. I wouldnt touch this for Utah. Aminu is heralded as a good defender and has never surpasses 1.5 DBPM, is more limited positionally to only PF IMHO and is coming off an injury.

As for the difference b/t Royce and Ennis, one is a dime-a-dozen decent shooter with a career high DBPM of 0.7 and one is a dime-a-dozen shooter with arguably elite defensive metrics. There is a huge gulf in value between those guys.

Then again, Orlando isnt a Royce O'Neale from contending. Guys like Royce are more valuable to contending teams than a squad like Orlando.
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#18 » by tiderulz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:50 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:Royce is an excellent defender. He has posted a 2.1 DBPM the past two seasons. That is very, very good for a swingman. I wouldnt touch this for Utah. Aminu is heralded as a good defender and has never surpasses 1.5 DBPM, is more limited positionally to only PF IMHO and is coming off an injury.

As for the difference b/t Royce and Ennis, one is a dime-a-dozen decent shooter with a career high DBPM of 0.7 and one is a dime-a-dozen shooter with arguably elite defensive metrics. There is a huge gulf in value between those guys.

Then again, Orlando isnt a Royce O'Neale from contending. Guys like Royce are more valuable to contending teams than a squad like Orlando.

how much of that also benefits Oneal by playing with Gobert, vs whatever stiff Aminu had playing center in Portland? many defensive stats are reliant on the entire team on the floor. its not like ppg, where the individual person scores
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#19 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:13 pm

how much of that also benefits Oneal by playing with Gobert, vs whatever stiff Aminu had playing center in Portland?


In 18/19 Aminu played next to Nurkic who posted a 1.7 DBPM. That is very good, not Gobert, but not a stiff in any sense.

If Oneal was elevated by Gobert the entire team would be. That is not true. On the Jazz the top DBPM are as such:

O'Neil 2.1
Gobert 1.9
Davis 1.7
Ingles 0.7

After that, its all negatives. This isnt a Gobert benefit, Royce is a VERY good defender, and this deal is terrible for Utah
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Re: Jazz / Magic draft day 

Post#20 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:33 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Catchall wrote:ORL trades Al Farouq Aminu + #17 pick (where I predict they'll be drafting after the bubble)

UTA trades Royce O'Neale + #23 (again, where I predict they'll be drafting)

Rationale for Orlando: Add a solid 3D wing who guards 1 - 4. Clear a bit of log jam at the 4.

Rationale for Utah: Move up several spots in the draft and add a backup with more size to balance the roster.

sorry, Oneal is 6'4, i cant see him guarding the 4 spot. Aminu a proven starter/6th man, I dont think Oneal has proven that. Yes Aminu got hurt, but should be okay coming back into next year.

I pass if im Orlando, take Kira Lewis at #17 and call it a day.


He has played a lot of power forward this season, and defends just fine at this position. I wouldn't do this deal, Aminu is a negative value, and I think Royce alone could fetch a similar pick in that 14-22 range.
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