LaVine to Milwaukee

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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#21 » by pipfan » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:48 pm

Pass from the Bulls-not nearly worth it
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#22 » by slos » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:06 pm

Resistance wrote:Once LaVine gets slotted/labeled as a sixth man on a contender, it will be hard to shake that reputation. Sixth men tend to get paid less and I have him not being happy being demoted to a sixth man role instead of having the spotlight like he currently has in Chicago.

His destiny on a contender very well could be as a sixth man, but I don't have him ready to happily accept that role at this point in his career.


LaVine is now clear that he wants to win and it’s also clear that a team that wants to win can’t have LaVine as 1st or 2nd best player. Maybe LaVine will never cope with this, but if he ever does now it’s the time.

What better opportunity could he get to change his mindset than joining the best team in the NBA? Sure there are some red flags and the 6th role (even if he plays 30 mpg) is something tough for the player, but I see plenty of possibilities for this to work both for the team and the player.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#23 » by Resistance » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:16 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
Resistance wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:And that is news? All superior skilled professional athletes think highly of themselves. Sorry, but I find this to be a waters is wet detail.



From the OP...

Bucks slide Donte into the starting lineup and use LaVine as a super 6th, something like rich men Lou. He may be finishing the games in case Bled gets cold again in crunch time.



I don't have him taking it well when he is coming off the bench in Milwaukee when he thinks that he should have been an All-Star this season.

Maybe. Maybe not. I think a big part hinging on this trade would be LaVine’s actual input to this exact line of questioning.

But if Bucks can pull the trigger for this cost, as long as LaVine’s answer wasn’t outright melancholy, low risk high reward for championship minded team.




He has a contract and he isn't important enough in the basketball world for Milwaukee (or any potential destination) needing to make nice and ask him if he will be happy with his role if he is traded to their team.


............Offense......Defense
2017-18......#10..........#18...
2018-19.......#4...........#1....
2019-20.......#6...........#1....


I have Milwaukee as good enough that they don't need to be kissing LaVine's feet about a potential trade.


He did the offer sheet with Sacramento several years ago to push Chicago on a contract. I haven't seen anything since to show he has shifted to were he has put the team ahead of himself. He is now 25 with two years left on his contract. His next contract will cover what are supposed to be his prine years and when most players expect to maximize their earnings. If he gets slotted as a sixth man in Milwaukee, then it will be much more difficult for him to get a fat contract a few years from now. If he was older and already had a fat contract, then I could see him being more open to taking a sixth man role.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#24 » by Resistance » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:25 pm

slos wrote:
Resistance wrote:Once LaVine gets slotted/labeled as a sixth man on a contender, it will be hard to shake that reputation. Sixth men tend to get paid less and I have him not being happy being demoted to a sixth man role instead of having the spotlight like he currently has in Chicago.

His destiny on a contender very well could be as a sixth man, but I don't have him ready to happily accept that role at this point in his career.


LaVine is now clear that he wants to win and it’s also clear that a team that wants to win can’t have LaVine as 1st or 2nd best player. Maybe LaVine will never cope with this, but if he ever does now it’s the time.

What better opportunity could he get to change his mindset than joining the best team in the NBA? Sure there are some red flags and the 6th role (even if he plays 30 mpg) is something tough for the player, but I see plenty of possibilities for this to work both for the team and the player.



LaVine is now clear that he wants to win and it’s also clear that a team that wants to win can’t have LaVine as 1st or 2nd best player. Maybe LaVine will never cope with this, but if he ever does now it’s the time.



I have it as too big a jump for LaVine to go from talking about being an All-Star to accept being a sixth man.



Does he want to win?


Probably so, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he is willng to do it as a sixth man.


Kobe was noted for not being open to being demoted on the totem pole as he got older. He wanted to win, but on his own terms which was being at the top.

Until I see or hear something different, I have LaVine with a similar mindset of wanting to win, but on his own terms.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#25 » by Couch Potato » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:13 pm

If I was the Bucks i'd trade for a more cost controlled rookie deal like Graham from the Hornets. Future backcourt of DDV and Graham would be more interesting. Bucks probably don't have the ammo for Graham but MJ is a bit clueless running the franchise.

Pacers first round pick , future Bucks first and Ersan to a tax repeater team that waives him and Bucks get little dead weight back ,but a late first which goes to Hornets as well and maybe a bucks future second i'd do for Graham. Yeah this means Bucks giving up on Bledsoe eventually. Sorry for derailing the trade thread a bit.

But Graham is RFA same time Giannis is due for a extension. So means Bucks probably have to trade off Bledsoe sooner rather then later down the road. Hill might be unguaranteed or team option. He maybe ready for vet minimum by then or near that ball park. Unless Brook falls off before then.

Three meh first's and a second for Graham does MJ say no? Bucks could recover a little bit of value trading Bledsoe later if need be. Hard to say. I'm not a GM. Call me crazy but I rather give a haul of 3 first and a second round pick for Graham then long term money in LaVine if Bulls even consider the original poster's idea.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#26 » by drosereturn » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:40 pm

No the MIL picks are garbage. no deal unless 3 unprotected future picks.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#27 » by drosereturn » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:47 pm

BullyKing wrote:
ChettheJet wrote:People worry about Lavine being a sixth man for a contender and not worth what he would ask for in two years from a contender. The heck with all that noise.

You're asking for the Bulls best player right F'n now, that #18 pick and a couple of guys to release rather than pay airfare for and a pick 4 years out is not helping the Bulls improve their team one bit. Let MIL go find some other 6th man for that low grade return and good luck having in division IND help you out grabbing up some playoff help.


So the Bucks aren't supposed to consider whether Lavine would sulk if not starting or whether he is resignable in two years in deciding whether to offer a distant future unprotected pick but they are supposed to consider/care that Lavine is currently the Bulls best player? Seems like you're labeling the wrong consideration as "noise".


Thats not the Bulls concern whether Lavine will resign or not. How the hell is AK supposed to know whether Giannis will be a future buck which decides Lavine resigning?
I mean your still taking the best player on a NBA team so you better prepare to pay up. Theres a lot of suitors including NYK/Nets who have boatload of assets to offer. Bucks are the beggers, not the Bulls.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#28 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:01 pm

slos wrote:
Resistance wrote:Once LaVine gets slotted/labeled as a sixth man on a contender, it will be hard to shake that reputation. Sixth men tend to get paid less and I have him not being happy being demoted to a sixth man role instead of having the spotlight like he currently has in Chicago.

His destiny on a contender very well could be as a sixth man, but I don't have him ready to happily accept that role at this point in his career.


LaVine is now clear that he wants to win and it’s also clear that a team that wants to win can’t have LaVine as 1st or 2nd best player. Maybe LaVine will never cope with this, but if he ever does now it’s the time.

What better opportunity could he get to change his mindset than joining the best team in the NBA? Sure there are some red flags and the 6th role (even if he plays 30 mpg) is something tough for the player, but I see plenty of possibilities for this to work both for the team and the player.


I think just about all the information posted about Lavine's mindset in this thread has been incorrect. It would be exhausting to try and combat all of the nonsense, so I'll post once and be done.

Lavine has been a team player on the Bulls from the start. There are dozens of articles stating this. This is a guy that offered to pay his coaches fines, a coach that considered the worst in the league and routinely throws his players under the bus.

Lavine took a backseat to Wiggins and Towns, when Wiggins was awful, but still had more field goal attempts than Zach. Lavine is a scorer, but the idea that this labels him a selfish player is nonsense. There is no other 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd option on the Bulls.

This article is one that goes into detail, but also note the stat given in the article.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/zach-lavine-remains-focused-winning-not-individual-accolades#:~:text=Zach%20LaVine%20remains%20focused%20on%20winning%2C%20not%20individual%20accolades,-By%20K.C.%20Johnson&text=PORTLAND%2C%20Ore.,a%20process%20predicated%20on%20winning.

To give you an idea of Zach LaVine's impact on the offense, in the last 4 games combined, the Bulls with...
LaVine on the court: 113.6 OffRTG, 0.7 NetRTG in 139 mins
LaVine off the court: 68.1 OffRTG, -34.4 NetRTG in 53 mins


Former coach of Lavine, Thibs, went into great detail about Lavine AFTER Lavine was gone, and loved his work ethic and mindset. Again, didn't have to praise him at all.

Another example, the bumbling head coach benches Zach, and Zach, who is apparently selfish, comes out the game after, doesn't sulk, and probably has the comeback performance of the year against the Hornets.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/11/24/20980316/chicago-bulls-zach-lavine-jim-boylen-hornets-buzzer-beater-comeback

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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#29 » by BullyKing » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:04 pm

Showtime23 wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
ChettheJet wrote:People worry about Lavine being a sixth man for a contender and not worth what he would ask for in two years from a contender. The heck with all that noise.

You're asking for the Bulls best player right F'n now, that #18 pick and a couple of guys to release rather than pay airfare for and a pick 4 years out is not helping the Bulls improve their team one bit. Let MIL go find some other 6th man for that low grade return and good luck having in division IND help you out grabbing up some playoff help.


So the Bucks aren't supposed to consider whether Lavine would sulk if not starting or whether he is resignable in two years in deciding whether to offer a distant future unprotected pick but they are supposed to consider/care that Lavine is currently the Bulls best player? Seems like you're labeling the wrong consideration as "noise".


Thats not the Bulls concern whether Lavine will resign or not. How the hell is AK supposed to know whether Giannis will be a future buck which decides Lavine resigning?
I mean your still taking the best player on a NBA team so you better prepare to pay up. Theres a lot of suitors including NYK/Nets who have boatload of assets to offer. Bucks are the beggers, not the Bulls.


So its the Bucks concern that Lavine is the Bulls best player. Sorry but that's total lunacy and just clear homerism that the Bucks need to pay more because this is the Bulls best player but the Bulls shouldn't have to accept less if Lavine won't resign. There's no way to rationalize that other than bias.

And if the Knicks and Nets are ready to offer a "boatload of assets" for Lavine more power to you. Suffice to say, I think your opinion of Lavine is just slightly colored by your rooting interest given that you've frequently referred to him as a "stud."
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#30 » by AussieBuck » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:29 am

Unless you're entirely remodeling the Bucks away from our current defensive strategy, we aren't going to take on **** defenders at guard and Lavine isn't a compelling enough player to contemplate that.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#31 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:51 am

Can’t imagine any contender besides the Lakers being interested in LaVine. LaVine fits Bron-ball where he ISO’s until he gets tired and needs someone else to do it. But no other contender plays that style.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#32 » by Ruzious » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:09 pm

Couch Potato wrote:Bucks are taking on salary. Ersan and Wilson is $11.5M combined. LaVine is $19.5M. Not sure the salary of the pick. But LaVine be a expensive bench player. Nice to have extra weapons. But a bit costly. Also not enough minutes to go around. Also cap probably going down. Ersan isn't a fully guaranteed contract next season. So Bulls could trade him to a tax team for maybe a second round pick and that team waives him. I see the Bulls saying no. Not sure if the Bucks owners ready to be in the tax unless they win it all and want a back to back championship then maybe. Also LaVine most likely is a player Bud wouldn't want.

Has that been addressed - How does it fit under the CBA?

Even if it did, the Bucks would be best suited to get a talented young player in a rookie deal. Other than DDV, they're lacking that in their current salary structure. And it's not much of a deal for Chicago. I think it's a no for both teams.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#33 » by BadWolf » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:35 pm

Ruzious wrote:Even if it did, the Bucks would be best suited to get a talented young player in a rookie deal.


Not sure why this is pointed out so much, just about every team would prefer same production player on rookie. Stands correct for all the players, not just Lavine.

I think Zach would fit greatly on the Bucks. He's improving on defense and his shortcomings would be masked with other strong defenders. He'd fit perfectly with DDV now and as a backcourt of the future.

As far as a price... Don't think Bucks have what Bulls need, so it's a moot point
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#34 » by Ruzious » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:48 pm

BadWolf wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Even if it did, the Bucks would be best suited to get a talented young player in a rookie deal.


Not sure why this is pointed out so much, just about every team would prefer same production player on rookie. Stands correct for all the players, not just Lavine.

I think Zach would fit greatly on the Bucks. He's improving on defense and his shortcomings would be masked with other strong defenders. He'd fit perfectly with DDV now and as a backcourt of the future.

As far as a price... Don't think Bucks have what Bulls need, so it's a moot point

It's because the Bucks are limited financially - being in a very small market. They can't afford to go head on into the lux tax - and then the repeater lux tax - which becomes more brutal each year. And don't expect them to keep Ilyasova - with his contract next year being non-guaranteed. If they trade him, it'll be most likely for a player with a smaller contract. Either that, or they let him go for nothing. You gotta look at the math - not just the talent, and with Giannis new contract coming up, they especially can't throw money away. They need to take advantage of rookie contracts.
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Re: LaVine to Milwaukee 

Post#35 » by slos » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:53 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Couch Potato wrote:Bucks are taking on salary. Ersan and Wilson is $11.5M combined. LaVine is $19.5M. Not sure the salary of the pick. But LaVine be a expensive bench player. Nice to have extra weapons. But a bit costly. Also not enough minutes to go around. Also cap probably going down. Ersan isn't a fully guaranteed contract next season. So Bulls could trade him to a tax team for maybe a second round pick and that team waives him. I see the Bulls saying no. Not sure if the Bucks owners ready to be in the tax unless they win it all and want a back to back championship then maybe. Also LaVine most likely is a player Bud wouldn't want.

Has that been addressed - How does it fit under the CBA?

Even if it did, the Bucks would be best suited to get a talented young player in a rookie deal. Other than DDV, they're lacking that in their current salary structure. And it's not much of a deal for Chicago. I think it's a no for both teams.


Wilson and Ersan make 11.5M, so you need one more contract of 3M to make this trade legal. That’s exactly the contract that #18 will sign. That’s why I said that this trade needs Indiana to lose a spot in the standings to make it legal.

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