Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl

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Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#1 » by giberish » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:00 am

For this deal I'm assuming that the Hawks don't get a top-4 pick - dropping into the 5-7 range; that Orlando's pick remains near #15; and that wherever the Bulls and the Knicks are set to pick they plan on drafting guards. I'm sure I'll also get told that I'm wildly off on value in places.

NYK trades RJ Barrett for Aaron Gordon + Orlando 1st (#15 or so)

The Knicks move Barrett (who had some good spots and bad spots as a rookie) for more win-now help in Gordon and get a mid-1st to add another rookie. Their starting backcourt becomes their own 1st and an outside vet FA such as FVV. Gordon comes in as their starting PF - which IMO they actually need as Randle is best as a bench gunner and Portis should be waived.

Atlanta trades their own 1st (#5-7) for RJ Barrett

Atlanta looks for Barrett as a 3rd guy around Young and Collins. He has enough size at SG to become a solid defender (needed next to Young). If they move up in the lottery I'd expect them to just draft a guy (Edwards??) but move down and they may not find anyone that interesting. Trading the pick for some 30 yo vet doesn't make sense with Young and Collins and Barrett may be the most interesting young guy available.

Chicago trades Zack LaVine for Atlanta 1st (#5-7)

If Chicago decides their own pick (perhaps they move up for Edwards/Ball/??) their backcourt rotation gets a bit full so they move LaVine for a lottery pick. Perhaps to draft a SF (a position Atlanta doesn't need as much).

Orlando trades Aaron Gordon + 1st (#15 or so) for Zack LaVine


Orlando trades for more shooting/offense-creations to balance out the size and defense of the rest of their roster.
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#2 » by pipfan » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:48 am

Bulls fan here, looks good for everyone but NY
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#3 » by Resistance » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:41 am

...................2020-21..........2021-22.........2022-23...
Gordon.......$18,136,364.....$16,409,091.........?.........
Barrett.........$8,231,760......$8,623,920....$10,900,635


Next season, there is a $9.9 million difference between Gordon and Barrett which isn't too bad.

Since Barrett still has three years left on a rookie contract, it isn't too much of a stretch to convert him back to an equivalent pick in the 2020 draft.

NYK trades RJ Barrett for Aaron Gordon + Orlando 1st (#15 or so)



Atlanta trades their own 1st (#5-7) for RJ Barrett


If we use the implied #7 for Barrett, then

#7 (Barrett) = Gordon + #15.

#7 (Barrett) = (#10) Gordon + #15.


Maybe in the right situation, Gordon is worth #10.



I don't have the 2020-21 Knicks as the right situation


Julius Randle
Aaron Gordon
Wayne Ellington
Frank Ntilikina
Dennis Smith
Kevin Knox
Reggie Bullock
Damyean Dotson
Mitchell Robinson
Theo Pinson
Ignas Brazdeikis
Jared Harper
Kenny Wooten

#6
#15
#27
#38

Payton ($1 million buyout)
Noah (stretch charge)


is $95 million in charges against team salary. The two players that shouldn't play too much together in Randle and Gordon are going to be $37 million in salary. With a $109 million salary cap, they will have up to $14 million in cap space to do some combination of eat salary for compensation and sign free agents.


Any combination of Gordon, Randle and Robinson at PF and Center will have spacing problems. Knox and DSJ seem to be more fringe than solid roatation players.

The rookies (#6, #15, #27, #38) are more likely to be more raw than make huge contributions.

Code: Select all

Center   Robinson         
PF   Gordon   Randle   Wooten   
SF   Bullock   Brazdeikis     Knox   
SG   Ellington   Dotson   Pinson   Harper
PG   Frank Ntilikina   DSJ      
            
#6, #15, #27, #38      

$14 million cap space      



If they don't bring Ellington back, they could carve out an additional $7.2 million in cap space.

Code: Select all

Center   Robinson         
PF   Gordon   Randle   Wooten   
SF   Bullock   Brazdeikis    Knox   
SG   Dotson   Pinson   Harper
PG   Frank Ntilikina   DSJ      
            
#6, #15, #27, #38      

$21.2 million cap space      




I think that NYK should gamble on upside with Barrett than trade for Gordon and #15. If they could snap their fingers and have Randle and his contract disappear, then perhaps a trade for Gordon would make more sense.
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#4 » by Richard4444 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 12:53 pm

I think Knicks only would deal Barret for a young star. Gordon is not. Thus, they should gamble with Barret. I think he will become a good shooter eventually.

Knicks has to try to move Randle. And in any way they should re-sign Wayne, who is an undersized washed overpriced average shooter.
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#5 » by ChettheJet » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:20 pm

No from the Bulls. Too many people place more value on potential of the unknown player than what hey have in their hand. Sometimes the discussion is this player can't play next to that player and Lavine has been part of that. but like here, other times the plan is to draft a pair of freshmen and they're going to be an instant match as teammates.

Right now and for the next two years Lavine is going to be the Bulls best player, if you care to make the case for someone else go right ahead. Are you telling me that their added lottery pick will be their best player in those same too years? Or with Lavine's departure does the player who by default becomes their best player match Lavine?

All trading Lavine for a single draft pick does is push the rebuilding process a couple of years down the road, which with the current core of young players, Markkanen, Carter, Gafford, and opens the door to them performing and pricing themselves out of consideration by the time the next wave of youth is ready and the process starts over.
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#6 » by tiderulz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:36 pm

giberish wrote:For this deal I'm assuming that the Hawks don't get a top-4 pick - dropping into the 5-7 range; that Orlando's pick remains near #15; and that wherever the Bulls and the Knicks are set to pick they plan on drafting guards. I'm sure I'll also get told that I'm wildly off on value in places.

NYK trades RJ Barrett for Aaron Gordon + Orlando 1st (#15 or so)

The Knicks move Barrett (who had some good spots and bad spots as a rookie) for more win-now help in Gordon and get a mid-1st to add another rookie. Their starting backcourt becomes their own 1st and an outside vet FA such as FVV. Gordon comes in as their starting PF - which IMO they actually need as Randle is best as a bench gunner and Portis should be waived.

Atlanta trades their own 1st (#5-7) for RJ Barrett

Atlanta looks for Barrett as a 3rd guy around Young and Collins. He has enough size at SG to become a solid defender (needed next to Young). If they move up in the lottery I'd expect them to just draft a guy (Edwards??) but move down and they may not find anyone that interesting. Trading the pick for some 30 yo vet doesn't make sense with Young and Collins and Barrett may be the most interesting young guy available.

Chicago trades Zack LaVine for Atlanta 1st (#5-7)

If Chicago decides their own pick (perhaps they move up for Edwards/Ball/??) their backcourt rotation gets a bit full so they move LaVine for a lottery pick. Perhaps to draft a SF (a position Atlanta doesn't need as much).

Orlando trades Aaron Gordon + 1st (#15 or so) for Zack LaVine


Orlando trades for more shooting/offense-creations to balance out the size and defense of the rest of their roster.

Overpay for Orlando. Overpay for Atlanta. NY gets too much.
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#7 » by tiderulz » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:37 pm

Richard4444 wrote:I think Knicks only would deal Barret for a young star. Gordon is not. Thus, they should gamble with Barret. I think he will become a good shooter eventually.

Knicks has to try to move Randle. And in any way they should re-sign Wayne, who is an undersized washed overpriced average shooter.

While Im sure the Knicks would like that, he doesnt command that trade value yet
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#8 » by Buzzard » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:58 pm

tiderulz wrote:
giberish wrote:For this deal I'm assuming that the Hawks don't get a top-4 pick - dropping into the 5-7 range; that Orlando's pick remains near #15; and that wherever the Bulls and the Knicks are set to pick they plan on drafting guards. I'm sure I'll also get told that I'm wildly off on value in places.

NYK trades RJ Barrett for Aaron Gordon + Orlando 1st (#15 or so)

The Knicks move Barrett (who had some good spots and bad spots as a rookie) for more win-now help in Gordon and get a mid-1st to add another rookie. Their starting backcourt becomes their own 1st and an outside vet FA such as FVV. Gordon comes in as their starting PF - which IMO they actually need as Randle is best as a bench gunner and Portis should be waived.

Atlanta trades their own 1st (#5-7) for RJ Barrett

Atlanta looks for Barrett as a 3rd guy around Young and Collins. He has enough size at SG to become a solid defender (needed next to Young). If they move up in the lottery I'd expect them to just draft a guy (Edwards??) but move down and they may not find anyone that interesting. Trading the pick for some 30 yo vet doesn't make sense with Young and Collins and Barrett may be the most interesting young guy available.

Chicago trades Zack LaVine for Atlanta 1st (#5-7)

If Chicago decides their own pick (perhaps they move up for Edwards/Ball/??) their backcourt rotation gets a bit full so they move LaVine for a lottery pick. Perhaps to draft a SF (a position Atlanta doesn't need as much).

Orlando trades Aaron Gordon + 1st (#15 or so) for Zack LaVine


Orlando trades for more shooting/offense-creations to balance out the size and defense of the rest of their roster.

Overpay for Orlando. Overpay for Atlanta. NY gets too much.

I think Atlanta would look at it but I am positive the Knicks would not. Zach Lavine in Orlando is a offensive shot in the arm. Its not horrible for Chicago; they get a great pick for Lavine and shed some cap.
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#9 » by Jack Dempsey » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:59 pm

tiderulz wrote:
giberish wrote:For this deal I'm assuming that the Hawks don't get a top-4 pick - dropping into the 5-7 range; that Orlando's pick remains near #15; and that wherever the Bulls and the Knicks are set to pick they plan on drafting guards. I'm sure I'll also get told that I'm wildly off on value in places.

NYK trades RJ Barrett for Aaron Gordon + Orlando 1st (#15 or so)

The Knicks move Barrett (who had some good spots and bad spots as a rookie) for more win-now help in Gordon and get a mid-1st to add another rookie. Their starting backcourt becomes their own 1st and an outside vet FA such as FVV. Gordon comes in as their starting PF - which IMO they actually need as Randle is best as a bench gunner and Portis should be waived.

Atlanta trades their own 1st (#5-7) for RJ Barrett

Atlanta looks for Barrett as a 3rd guy around Young and Collins. He has enough size at SG to become a solid defender (needed next to Young). If they move up in the lottery I'd expect them to just draft a guy (Edwards??) but move down and they may not find anyone that interesting. Trading the pick for some 30 yo vet doesn't make sense with Young and Collins and Barrett may be the most interesting young guy available.

Chicago trades Zack LaVine for Atlanta 1st (#5-7)

If Chicago decides their own pick (perhaps they move up for Edwards/Ball/??) their backcourt rotation gets a bit full so they move LaVine for a lottery pick. Perhaps to draft a SF (a position Atlanta doesn't need as much).

Orlando trades Aaron Gordon + 1st (#15 or so) for Zack LaVine


Orlando trades for more shooting/offense-creations to balance out the size and defense of the rest of their roster.

Overpay for Orlando. Overpay for Atlanta. NY gets too much.

Huge overpay for Orlando but I wouldn't say it's an actual overpay for the Hawks. I don't like it for them because I don't think RJ fits well in Atlanta but a #5-7 pick in a weak draft is fine for him.
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#10 » by Buzzard » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:15 pm

Jack Dempsey wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
giberish wrote:For this deal I'm assuming that the Hawks don't get a top-4 pick - dropping into the 5-7 range; that Orlando's pick remains near #15; and that wherever the Bulls and the Knicks are set to pick they plan on drafting guards. I'm sure I'll also get told that I'm wildly off on value in places.

NYK trades RJ Barrett for Aaron Gordon + Orlando 1st (#15 or so)

The Knicks move Barrett (who had some good spots and bad spots as a rookie) for more win-now help in Gordon and get a mid-1st to add another rookie. Their starting backcourt becomes their own 1st and an outside vet FA such as FVV. Gordon comes in as their starting PF - which IMO they actually need as Randle is best as a bench gunner and Portis should be waived.

Atlanta trades their own 1st (#5-7) for RJ Barrett

Atlanta looks for Barrett as a 3rd guy around Young and Collins. He has enough size at SG to become a solid defender (needed next to Young). If they move up in the lottery I'd expect them to just draft a guy (Edwards??) but move down and they may not find anyone that interesting. Trading the pick for some 30 yo vet doesn't make sense with Young and Collins and Barrett may be the most interesting young guy available.

Chicago trades Zack LaVine for Atlanta 1st (#5-7)

If Chicago decides their own pick (perhaps they move up for Edwards/Ball/??) their backcourt rotation gets a bit full so they move LaVine for a lottery pick. Perhaps to draft a SF (a position Atlanta doesn't need as much).

Orlando trades Aaron Gordon + 1st (#15 or so) for Zack LaVine


Orlando trades for more shooting/offense-creations to balance out the size and defense of the rest of their roster.

Overpay for Orlando. Overpay for Atlanta. NY gets too much.

Huge overpay for Orlando but I wouldn't say it's an actual overpay for the Hawks. I don't like it for them because I don't think RJ fits well in Atlanta but a #5-7 pick in a weak draft is fine for him.

Orlando has to improve their guard play; especially on the offensive end. If you think you can get a better guard than Lavine, go for it. If Isaac is the great defender he is being touted as, covering for Lavine should not be a problem.

The one thing I do see going against this is if Orlando wants to tank. If that is the case, move Gordon or Isaac for a pick and get it started.
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Re: Unlikely 4-team deal NYK/Atl/Chi/Orl 

Post#11 » by Richard4444 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 3:00 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:I think Knicks only would deal Barret for a young star. Gordon is not. Thus, they should gamble with Barret. I think he will become a good shooter eventually.

Knicks has to try to move Randle. And in any way they should re-sign Wayne, who is an undersized washed overpriced average shooter.

While Im sure the Knicks would like that, he doesnt command that trade value yet


Knicks could package him along with multiples FRPs to get a young star. I wish Knicks dont do it.

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