Murray comes home: Denver/Phoenix/Toronto

Godaddycurse · Post #1 » by **Godaddycurse** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:11 pm

Denver trades: Murray, Diop, (2021 top 5 protected 1st)
Denver receives: FVV (S&T 21-23 mil starting), Oubre, PHX 2021 2nd

Toronto trades: FVV (S&T), Powell
Toronto receives: Murray, Diop, (Denver 2021 1st)

Phoenix trades: Oubre, 2021 2nd
Phoenix receives Powell

Why for Denver: balance roster and improves their defense. FVV can play off ball and share playmaking w/ Jokic.
Why for Toronto: bring back a young canadian w/ upside and get ~10 mil more space for 2021 FA
Why for phoenix: gets some more cap and fill 3rd guard opening w/ a better player

I wasn't sure if denver should throw in a first or not so i put it in brackets. Contract and on court production wise they should throw in a 1st, but depending on how high you value murrays upside and how much discount toronto should give for doing a S&T, i can see argument for it not being required. i think toronto would still do it without the 1st.. maybe just 2 seconds instead (phx 2nd + another denver 2nd)?

Lineup:

Jokic/Plumlee
Grant/MPJ
Oubre/Craig
Harris/Barton
FVV/Morris

Ayton/Kaminsky
FA (Gallinari?)
Bridges/Johnson
Booker/Powell
Rubio/#10

Gasol/Boucher
Siakam
OG/Diop
Murray/McCaw
Lowry/TDII

Fo-Real · Post #2 » by **Fo-Real** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:27 pm

Phoenix respectfully declines.

Godaddycurse · Post #3 » by **Godaddycurse** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:34 pm

Fo-Real wrote:Phoenix respectfully declines.

Yea powell for oubre or the 10th was brought up before and i know it's a mixed opinion on whether phoenix would do it. I suspect with the stagnant cap, being able to shave 3+ mil from the cap will make the difference in whether they can land a quality PF like gallinari or grant.

mademan · Post #4 » by **mademan** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:47 pm

I dont wanna be on the hook for Murrays 5/170. Thats crazy amount of money for a guy who's not a star and isnt clear cut to become a star.

Godaddycurse · Post #5 » by **Godaddycurse** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:48 pm

mademan wrote:I dont wanna be on the hook for Murrays 5/170. Thats crazy amount of money for a guy who's not a star and isnt clear cut to become a star.

he's making 5/157 now because of covid cap. I think playing with lowry and nurse can unlock his potential further, but its definitely a gamble.

mademan · Post #6 » by **mademan** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:50 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
mademan wrote:I dont wanna be on the hook for Murrays 5/170. Thats crazy amount of money for a guy who's not a star and isnt clear cut to become a star.

he's making 5/157 now because of covid cap. I think playing with lowry and nurse can unlock his potential further, but its definitely a gamble.

Youre talking about 30mill/year for a guy, who, at best, has been an above average starter who hasnt significantly improved since his sophomore year and doesnt have great physical gifts. Thats not the kind of money you pay to someone hoping they'll improve.

youngthegiant · Post #7 » by **youngthegiant** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 5:15 pm

Denver says no.

youngthegiant · Post #8 » by **youngthegiant** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 5:23 pm

mademan wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
mademan wrote:I dont wanna be on the hook for Murrays 5/170. Thats crazy amount of money for a guy who's not a star and isnt clear cut to become a star.

he's making 5/157 now because of covid cap. I think playing with lowry and nurse can unlock his potential further, but its definitely a gamble.

Youre talking about 30mill/year for a guy, who, at best, has been an above average starter who hasnt significantly improved since his sophomore year and doesnt have great physical gifts. Thats not the kind of money you pay to someone hoping they'll improve.

Numbers are numbers. Murray doesn't get to shoot 19-20 shots a game like other pgs. He's the #2 option on a top 3 western conference team for 2 years in a row. Denver would not be where they are without him and he definitely has the potential to break out with a better coach who can get him better offensive looks.

Post #9 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 7:42 pm

As much as I think Murray is getting a bad rap on here I don't think Toronto does this. Murray can be great but I don't think Masai wants to n take on that deal especially when he's got his eyes on Antetokounmpo. Murray's numbers are down because he plays with a great passing big in Jokic

Godaddycurse · Post #10 » by **Godaddycurse** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 7:50 pm

Mr Swagtastic wrote:As much as I think Murray is getting a bad rap on here I don't think Toronto does this. Murray can be great but I don't think Masai wants to n take on that deal especially when he's got his eyes on Antetokounmpo. Murray's numbers are down because he plays with a great passing big in Jokic

I think we would still have enough room for giannis, but it will be tight:

Siakam 29
OG 10
Murray 29
TDII 2
2020 1st 2

jimmy keys · Post #11 » by **jimmy keys** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 8:21 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
Mr Swagtastic wrote:As much as I think Murray is getting a bad rap on here I don't think Toronto does this. Murray can be great but I don't think Masai wants to n take on that deal especially when he's got his eyes on Antetokounmpo. Murray's numbers are down because he plays with a great passing big in Jokic

I think we would still have enough room for giannis, but it will be tight:

Siakam 29
OG 10
Murray 29
TDII 2
2020 1st 2

They would.

Murray
TD II
OG
Siakam
Antetokounmpo

Would be ridiculous.

Post #12 » by **NuggetsWY** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 10:08 pm

I will re-state my official position: I do not believe Denver should make any trades --- but this one comes close.

I see no reason for Phoenix to be interested in this trade. Powell is clearly a guard and probably not going to be a major contributor in Phoenix, plus he's 27 years old - not likely to be a major piece when the rest of the team is ready to contend for a title. Oubre may or may not be a major piece in the future of Phoenix but he's only 24 and he's a forward (that could play some guard). He's a better fit INO. If Phoenix is going to be involved in this trade, they'd want at least a middle-1st instead of giving up a 2nd.

I'm not convinced Toronto would like this trade. Murray next to Lowry seems like a lot of redundancy but I'd bet it would work. Van Vleet & Powell are perfect fits in Toronto's system with the current roster (my opinion) and I'm not sure they'd be interested in Bates-Diop. He'd be a "future potential" gamble and they are in a "compete now" mode - rightfully so. That's why the Denver 1st probably isn't very important to Toronto.

Denver will absolutely say no. They would be trading their second best player and the player they would say is the best in the trade and their fit would be worse. Van Vleet would be nice playing off from Jokic and while most players can fit next to Jokic, he'd be excellent there. But losing Murray just wouldn't be worth it in my eyes. I loved Oubre's potential when he was younger and I wouldn't object to him in Denver, but adding two very good players does not equal trading one better player. Adding a 2nd does nothing for Denver and even trading their 1st wouldn't be that big of a deal. 2nds are cheap to buy and with their deep roster, there's not much playing time anyway. Another reason not to trade their #2 player for two replacements.

Saul Goodman · Post #13 » by **Saul Goodman** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 1:16 am

As a Raptors fan who is a Murray believer, I would rather have VanVleet and Powell.

Godaddycurse · Post #14 » by **Godaddycurse** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 1:23 am

Saul Goodman wrote:As a Raptors fan who is a Murray believer, I would rather have VanVleet and Powell.

But we cant keep both powell and fvv if we want a shot at giannis

Alatan · Post #15 » by **Alatan** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 1:11 pm

The value for Denver is suspect and Phoenix straight up declines, i think. Apart from that i dont think Denver is going places by replacing Murray with FVV. The only interesting player for Denver here is Oubre but considering we have MPJ and Bol as our projected 3 and 4 i doubt that he is a long term fit.

Post #16 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 5:08 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
Mr Swagtastic wrote:As much as I think Murray is getting a bad rap on here I don't think Toronto does this. Murray can be great but I don't think Masai wants to n take on that deal especially when he's got his eyes on Antetokounmpo. Murray's numbers are down because he plays with a great passing big in Jokic

I think we would still have enough room for giannis, but it will be tight:

Siakam 29
OG 10
Murray 29
TDII 2
2020 1st 2

Yeah that team has no bench after this. They would have to sign a bunch of ring chasing veterans to take discounts to sign here. I get Murray is younger and has term on his contract but idk if he's playing up to it. Again like I said I think the fact Denver is such a deep team and has Jokic might be a factor. However idk if Masai sees Murray as a guy to land Giannis Antetokounmpo