Magic, Sixers, Warriors: Blow up, shoot up, match up

youngcrev · Post #1 » by **youngcrev** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 9:32 pm

ORLANDO TRADES
Evan Fournier and Aaron Gordon
for
Andrew Wiggins, Mike Scott and GSW 1st round pick

The Magic try to get themselves off the treadmill. Giving up 2 quality players and eating Wiggins is the price to get to the top of the draft. Possibly follow this up with a Vucevic deal depending on the market for him.

PHILADELPHIA TRADES
Josh Richardson, Mike Scott and ATL 2nd round pick (#34 overall)
for
Evan Fournier and GSW '21 1st (lottery protected)

The Sixers move on from Richardson for a guy that can provide more playmaking and shooting to better compliment the roster.

GOLDEN STATE TRADES
Andrew Wiggins, 2020 1st round pick and 2021 1st round pick (lottery protected)
for
Aaron Gordon, Josh Richardson, ATL 2nd round pick (#34 overall)

The Warriors get out of the Wiggins deal and get some quality win now pieces to help them match up with the LA squads in the West.

jjohns828 · Post #2 » by **jjohns828** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 9:40 pm

If I really believed in anyone at the top of the draft I'd have to consider it but I don't believe in anyone enough to take on Wiggins and his contract to get them.

youngcrev · Post #3 » by **youngcrev** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 10:06 pm

jjohns828 wrote:If I really believed in anyone at the top of the draft I'd have to consider it but I don't believe in anyone enough to take on Wiggins and his contract to get them.

That's fair, though if it were a really strong draft at the top, I don't imagine that package gets it done. I view it as means to put themselves in a better position to draft at the top of the draft next year as well. Back end of the playoffs without a young franchise player talent in place feels like exactly where you don't want to be.

NotACat · Post #4 » by **NotACat** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 10:15 pm

jjohns828 wrote:If I really believed in anyone at the top of the draft I'd have to consider it but I don't believe in anyone enough to take on Wiggins and his contract to get them.

Yup, it arguably leaves our team in a worse spot

Skybox · Post #5 » by **Skybox** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 10:32 pm

I'd do it from Magic perspective and then I watch Wiggins go for 25ppg on a defensive minded team. He's def FAR from complete but I'd take that shot considering the makeup of the rest of the team, not to mention Okeke, #16, and that high pick coming in. I don't even know who I'd want at the top of the draft but there are certainly some solid pieces. Wiggins and Fultz could be a dynamic backcourt - if all Wiggins is asked to do is score. I know the contract, but ...

Post #6 » by **gswhoops** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 10:44 pm

youngcrev wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:If I really believed in anyone at the top of the draft I'd have to consider it but I don't believe in anyone enough to take on Wiggins and his contract to get them.

That's fair, though if it were a really strong draft at the top, I don't imagine that package gets it done.

I feel like this point gets lost a lot when people talk about this being a "weak draft"

If it were a strong or even an average draft, there's precisely zero chance the potential #1 overall pick would be available for Aaron Gordon and Josh Richardson.

Post #7 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 11:31 pm

This is brutal for Orlando. I have Wiggs+the 1st at neutral value at best. This is essentially assigning no value to AG or Fournier.

Also with Isaac’s injury, I don’t think Orlando will actively be trying to trade Gordon.

youngcrev · Post #8 » by **youngcrev** » Mon Aug 3, 2020 11:39 pm

Mamba4Goat wrote:This is brutal for Orlando. I have Wiggs+the 1st at neutral value at best. This is essentially assigning no value to AG or Fournier.

Also with Isaac’s injury, I don’t think Orlando will actively be trying to trade Gordon.

Meaning what, to absorb his salary straight up or for an expiring?

I don't think it's a high value package, but I also don't think Gordon or Fournier are particularly high value pieces (particularly if we are putting it in terms of absorbing salary)

jjohns828 · Post #9 » by **jjohns828** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 12:04 am

gswhoops wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
jjohns828 wrote:If I really believed in anyone at the top of the draft I'd have to consider it but I don't believe in anyone enough to take on Wiggins and his contract to get them.

That's fair, though if it were a really strong draft at the top, I don't imagine that package gets it done.

I feel like this point gets lost a lot when people talk about this being a "weak draft"

If it were a strong or even an average draft, there's precisely zero chance the potential #1 overall pick would be available for Aaron Gordon and Josh Richardson.

I get that, but usually even in a weak draft I have a prospect that I personally believe in as a future building block. However, in this draft I wouldn't feel good about leaving the draft with any of the top prospects and saying I took on Wiggins and his contract to get them.

jonbob17 · Post #10 » by **jonbob17** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 12:05 am

The Magic might do something like that for the Minnesota 2021 FRP.

Commodor · Post #11 » by **Commodor** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 4:00 am

I get that Wiggins is a negative value, but wouldn’t the point of these moves to be to get ORL into tank mode and accrue assets while they do it?

At worst his contract is up in 3 years, when their picks will be due for the next deal. There should still be plenty of room for Isaac and whoever else they want to keep.

At best he develops chemistry as a 3rd option with fultz and whoever they draft. Then they have a young core to re-evaluate.

Posters on this trade act like it’s a bad thing they wouldn’t be more competitive? I don’t get it. Wouldn’t they want lower picks the next two years and gamble on younger pieces seeing if they can turn it around?

But either way I don’t like Gordon’s fit with Draymond, so I would prefer GSW to look elsewhere if they are dealing their picks.

Coxy · Post #12 » by **Coxy** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 4:28 am

Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, 2021 1st round pick (lottery protected) for Aaron Gordon, Josh Richardson, ATL 2nd round pick (#34 overall)

Golden State pass. The 1st could end up James Wiseman.

zaymon · Post #13 » by **zaymon** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 9:07 am

Coxy wrote:Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, 2021 1st round pick (lottery protected) for Aaron Gordon, Josh Richardson, ATL 2nd round pick (#34 overall)

Golden State pass. The 1st could end up James Wiseman.

Yeah James Wiseman who in some mocks is outside top 10. Its hard to play in the nba when you dont have feel for the game, cant guard in space and cant pass the ball. Tools are often not enough.

Coxy · Post #14 » by **Coxy** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 10:57 am

zaymon wrote:
Coxy wrote:Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, 2021 1st round pick (lottery protected) for Aaron Gordon, Josh Richardson, ATL 2nd round pick (#34 overall)

Golden State pass. The 1st could end up James Wiseman.

Yeah James Wiseman who in some mocks is outside top 10. Its hard to play in the nba when you dont have feel for the game, cant guard in space and cant pass the ball. Tools are often not enough.

Whatever, he’s the number 1 pick for mine, so I say GS pass.

NotACat · Post #15 » by **NotACat** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 11:35 am

Commodor wrote:I get that Wiggins is a negative value, but wouldn’t the point of these moves to be to get ORL into tank mode and accrue assets while they do it?

At worst his contract is up in 3 years, when their picks will be due for the next deal. There should still be plenty of room for Isaac and whoever else they want to keep.

At best he develops chemistry as a 3rd option with fultz and whoever they draft. Then they have a young core to re-evaluate.

Posters on this trade act like it’s a bad thing they wouldn’t be more competitive? I don’t get it. Wouldn’t they want lower picks the next two years and gamble on younger pieces seeing if they can turn it around?

But either way I don’t like Gordon’s fit with Draymond, so I would prefer GSW to look elsewhere if they are dealing their picks.

3 years is a long time for someone getting paid $30M+ and doesn't do anything well

It's simply not worth it, especially in this draft

jjohns828 · Post #16 » by **jjohns828** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 12:42 pm

NotACat wrote:
Commodor wrote:I get that Wiggins is a negative value, but wouldn’t the point of these moves to be to get ORL into tank mode and accrue assets while they do it?

At worst his contract is up in 3 years, when their picks will be due for the next deal. There should still be plenty of room for Isaac and whoever else they want to keep.

At best he develops chemistry as a 3rd option with fultz and whoever they draft. Then they have a young core to re-evaluate.

Posters on this trade act like it’s a bad thing they wouldn’t be more competitive? I don’t get it. Wouldn’t they want lower picks the next two years and gamble on younger pieces seeing if they can turn it around?

But either way I don’t like Gordon’s fit with Draymond, so I would prefer GSW to look elsewhere if they are dealing their picks.

3 years is a long time for someone getting paid $30M+ and doesn't do anything well

It's simply not worth it, especially in this draft

That’s my issue I believe in burning it down for next year but I’d rather get less positive compensation in the process because I don’t think getting to the top of this draft I worth taking on the negative that is Wiggins and his contract.

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VDT · Post #17 » by **VDT** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 1:33 pm

Its fine for the Magic who need to tank anyway.

I dont like it for the Warriors though. Is Gordon really a better player than Wiggins (contract aside)? And is one year of Richardson worth a high lottery pick? The thing is that there trade value and then there is playing value. And if Warriors were to trade their pick they would need a significantly upgrade on the court.

I also dont particularly like it for the Sixers either as Fournier is another defensive liability and his reduced offensive role with the Sixers would not justify it.

youngcrev · Post #18 » by **youngcrev** » Tue Aug 4, 2020 1:50 pm

VDT wrote:Its fine for the Magic who need to tank anyway.

I dont like it for the Warriors though. Is Gordon really a better player than Wiggins (contract aside)? And is one year of Richardson worth a high lottery pick? The thing is that there trade value and then there is playing value. And if Warriors were to trade their pick they would need a significantly upgrade on the court.

I also dont particularly like it for the Sixers either as Fournier is another defensive liability and his reduced offensive role with the Sixers would not justify it.

I don't really think there's any debate whether Gordon is a better player than Wiggins, and could be a key piece for them to match up with Lebron and Kawhi.

Not sure I'd consider Fournier a defensive liability, and I think he'd fit like a glove offensively as a guy that can play make on ball and make shots on the move off.