Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th)

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Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#1 » by pr0gr4m » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:26 pm

Lowry, OG for Hield, Bagley, Joseph, Holmes, and 12th.

The Kings get a clean slate next season, a great vet in Lowry with championship experience, and OG a good young player they can develop with Fox.

The Raptors can use Hield in their system better than the Kings and put Bagley through their development system to turn into another Siakam.

Bagley/Holmes
Siakam/
Nesmith(12th)
Powell/Hield
FVV/Joseph/Davis/Terry(29th)

The Raptors could trade FVV at the deadline for cap relief and/or boost the value of Hield and trade him at the deadline. If neither of those seem like an option they could trade Joseph and/or Powell who would be cheap bench upgrades for most contenders.

If by some miracle of God Giannis is willing to go to Toronto they would have Siakam as a tradeable asset to gain a prolific wing scorer such as Beal.

Giannis/Holmes
Bagley/
Nesmith/
Beal/Powell
Davis/Joseph/Terry(29th)


Thoughts?

I consider this a high risk, high reward trade for Toronto that would test their developmental system. I believe there is little difference between Hield and FVV/Powell. He should look much better in their system.

The Kings would get a fresh restart with Lowry leading them for a year. It would set a new standard of culture and expectation. He could mentor Fox, Barnes, and Parker. OG would set a defensive standard for Parker and Barnes as well creating internal competition for minutes.
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Re: Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/12th 

Post#2 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:28 pm

Not sure why toronto is trading away the best veteran and best prospect/young player and losing 2021 cap space in the process too. OG is not getting traded unless a star is coming back
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Re: Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/12th 

Post#3 » by pr0gr4m » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:30 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:Not sure why toronto is trading away the best player and best prospect and losing 2021 cap space in the process too.

To get a chance at a possibly franchise altering player and a lottery pick.

Lowry is a one year rental that will decline soon if not next year. OG while a great defensive prospect isn't the late game scorer that Toronto requires. Bagley and the 12th pick (Nesmith, Terry, etc) have a chance to develop into that superstar they need.

2021 cap space can be easily created by trading Powell, Joseph, Hield, or even Siakam. The thought Giannis would come to Toronto is a bit of a pipedream too.
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Re: Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/12th 

Post#4 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:31 pm

pr0gr4m wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:Not sure why toronto is trading away the best player and best prospect and losing 2021 cap space in the process too.

To get a chance at a possibly franchise altering player and a lottery pick.


If you mean bagley who is approaching bust status and plays same position as siakam we will pass.
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Re: Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/12th 

Post#5 » by pr0gr4m » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:38 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:Not sure why toronto is trading away the best player and best prospect and losing 2021 cap space in the process too.

To get a chance at a possibly franchise altering player and a lottery pick.


If you mean bagley who is approaching bust status and plays same position as siakam we will pass.

Bagley played 90% of his minutes at center last season before his injury. A 2nd overall pick doesn't come that cheap unless there are extreme circumstances.

How is Bagley a bust? He isn't even 21 years old yet. On the Kings there's a high likelihood he is a bust, but on the Raptors he has a chance to be a more talented Siakam.

Hield also has the potential to thrive in Toronto's system. Despite what fans of Sacramento may say it is likely they feel the trade is lopsided. However, OG and Lowry have high value after their playoff run while Hield is looked at as a bad contract.

Point being Ujiri could probably pull another future first round pick from the Kings as well due to current value and circumstances.
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Re: Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/12th 

Post#6 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:43 pm

pr0gr4m wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:To get a chance at a possibly franchise altering player and a lottery pick.


If you mean bagley who is approaching bust status and plays same position as siakam we will pass.

Bagley played 90% of his minutes at center last season before his injury. A 2nd overall pick doesn't come that cheap unless there are extreme circumstances.

How is Bagley a bust? He isn't even 21 years old yet. On the Kings there's a high likelihood he is a bust, but on the Raptors he has a chance to be a more talented Siakam.

Hield also has the potential to thrive in Toronto's system. Despite what fans of Sacramento may say it is likely they feel the trade is lopsided. However, OG and Lowry have high value after their playoff run while Hield is looked at as a bad contract.

Point being Ujiri could probably pull another future first round pick from the Kings as well due to current value and circumstances.


A) they are both bad at defense so they dont fit nurse's system.
B) we are paying thomas 1m to do what hield is paid 25m to do
c) bagley near bust status is the boards opinion in other bagleys value thread
D) we dont need bagley if we want to get giannis. Esp when it involves eating hields big contract
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#7 » by kalenclayton » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:22 pm

Regardless of value, I don’t think this trade jives with the current direction of the Kings. This hurts their future for a rental in Lowry. The team does not have that great of a resulting surrounding cast and would likely top out as the 6th seed. It’s just not worth the price that is being paid.
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#8 » by BoogieTime » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:07 pm

Absolutely not Kings direction
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#9 » by Mr Swagtastic » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:26 pm

Think The Kings stick it out with Bagley for another year. If he can ever figure out his game then he's a guy I don't see them moving. I get Anunoby and Lowry make them better but this is a short term fix. The Kings still need front court help after this.

This is one of the Anunoby deals that I could live with but Hield probably has to be routed to a third team like Dallas for THJ and #18?
Lord Leoshes wrote:i personally would rather keep Chalmers over Lowry
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#10 » by kb02 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:16 pm

Absolutely the wrong direction. Fox and Lowry are on completely different ends of their careers. New Kings FO is rumored to be Gupta and Mcnair. Disciples of HInkie and Morey. Kings are more likely to undergo the process than to win now.
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#11 » by theocratic_n'_nature » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:01 pm

I've been to the Kings' board, these are the players you guys don't want (in respect to buddy vs bogi and Bagley vs any useful player).

Here's a quote from one of your mods
"The problem is that Bagley is made out of glass and his shooting isn't at par. He is predictable with his left hand. And defensively, he is pretty bad. He is a black hole and doesn't create with the ball. At this point, he is a very flawed player that relies on his sheer athleticism and overall springiness."

So no, you can't steal our guys no matter what year that pick is in. And for the record, OG isn't going anywhere.

Lowry is an expiring next year and that fact alone should be worth a FRP for a team looking to get under the tax/cap.

We can talk about a Powell + SRP for Bjelica + '20 FRP and a '21 pick swap if you'd like, but Buddy messes up our capspace for '21 and Bagley doesn't fit in our culture, so we're not going to talk about them.
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Re: Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/12th 

Post#12 » by patman66 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:14 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
If you mean bagley who is approaching bust status and plays same position as siakam we will pass.

Bagley played 90% of his minutes at center last season before his injury. A 2nd overall pick doesn't come that cheap unless there are extreme circumstances.

How is Bagley a bust? He isn't even 21 years old yet. On the Kings there's a high likelihood he is a bust, but on the Raptors he has a chance to be a more talented Siakam.

Hield also has the potential to thrive in Toronto's system. Despite what fans of Sacramento may say it is likely they feel the trade is lopsided. However, OG and Lowry have high value after their playoff run while Hield is looked at as a bad contract.

Point being Ujiri could probably pull another future first round pick from the Kings as well due to current value and circumstances.


A) they are both bad at defense so they dont fit nurse's system.
B) we are paying thomas 1m to do what hield is paid 25m to do
c) bagley near bust status is the boards opinion in other bagleys value thread
D) we dont need bagley if we want to get giannis. Esp when it involves eating hields big contract


I am with you until you get to #4, lowry will have zero value if it comes down to a S&T as most of the big deals. I can see Hield and Bagley just playing at 75% of his potential his first full year and a lottery pick with 3 years to go over OG
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#13 » by VDT » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:27 pm

It doesnt make sense for the Kings. Lowry plays the same position as their best player and they are not in a position to give a lottery pick and a recent #2 pick for OG who will need a new contract anyway.
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Re: Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/12th 

Post#14 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:27 pm

patman66 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:Bagley played 90% of his minutes at center last season before his injury. A 2nd overall pick doesn't come that cheap unless there are extreme circumstances.

How is Bagley a bust? He isn't even 21 years old yet. On the Kings there's a high likelihood he is a bust, but on the Raptors he has a chance to be a more talented Siakam.

Hield also has the potential to thrive in Toronto's system. Despite what fans of Sacramento may say it is likely they feel the trade is lopsided. However, OG and Lowry have high value after their playoff run while Hield is looked at as a bad contract.

Point being Ujiri could probably pull another future first round pick from the Kings as well due to current value and circumstances.


A) they are both bad at defense so they dont fit nurse's system.
B) we are paying thomas 1m to do what hield is paid 25m to do
c) bagley near bust status is the boards opinion in other bagleys value thread
D) we dont need bagley if we want to get giannis. Esp when it involves eating hields big contract


I am with you until you get to #4, lowry will have zero value if it comes down to a S&T as most of the big deals. I can see Hield and Bagley just playing at 75% of his potential his first full year and a lottery pick with 3 years to go over OG


I meant bagley and giannis are a bad fit together because neither space the floor and would clog the paint too much. Hield's contract prevents us from having max space if we want to keep FVV, who imo is a much better player than hield.
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Re: Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/12th 

Post#15 » by TheProfessor » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:29 pm

pr0gr4m wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:To get a chance at a possibly franchise altering player and a lottery pick.


If you mean bagley who is approaching bust status and plays same position as siakam we will pass.

Bagley played 90% of his minutes at center last season before his injury. A 2nd overall pick doesn't come that cheap unless there are extreme circumstances.

How is Bagley a bust? He isn't even 21 years old yet. On the Kings there's a high likelihood he is a bust, but on the Raptors he has a chance to be a more talented Siakam.

Hield also has the potential to thrive in Toronto's system. Despite what fans of Sacramento may say it is likely they feel the trade is lopsided. However, OG and Lowry have high value after their playoff run while Hield is looked at as a bad contract.

Point being Ujiri could probably pull another future first round pick from the Kings as well due to current value and circumstances.


Bagley is not a Raptor-esque player, we dont value low-iq players like Bagley. His game offensively is archaic and defensively he cannot rotate nor has spatial awareness. Hield as much as i love him is again is overpaid and also I dont even think he is better than powell to be honest.

Only way Toronto even considers this is if it's reverse lotto 2021 pick (8-30 protected, then 10-30, then 12-30 then unprotected) attached.
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#16 » by mademan » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:29 pm

Hate the value for the Raps. For the Kings, i'd easily do this trade and try to flip Lowry for another asset. To me, Hield is a bad contract and Bagley/12 for OG is a steal
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#17 » by pr0gr4m » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 am

VDT wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:


Response to Kings' direction:

Lowry would be there mentor and push the King's youth. He could catalyze them for a year as a useful on floor veteran. If Lowry can help lead the Kings to the playoffs it could create a change of culture that they require. In essence it would set a hustle, defensive expectation standard.

For example league wide it falls under radar. Lowry is a league leader in charges taken. Seeing possibly the best player on the floor taking charges and hustling to the absolute last second is exactly what the Kings' youth needs. Lowry's execution and hustle will create for a new culture.

This goes the same way with OG Anunoby. Seeing a guy who you're competing for minutes with hustling and playing hard defense will push the Kings' defensively to possibly be top ten next season.

mademan wrote:Hate the value for the Raps. For the Kings, i'd easily do this trade and try to flip Lowry for another asset. To me, Hield is a bad contract and Bagley/12 for OG is a steal


Response for Raptors direction:

For the Raptors to really compete for a championship they really need to test their developmental system and Lowry has the highest value right now.

During the season Lowry's salary would cause such an overhaul that contenders will not want him and a short term rental wouldn't make sense for a developing team. I explained why the Kings', who are on the brink on being a playoff team, above would want him. I consider them to be a specific situation since they've been losing for nearly 2 decades.

There is absolutely no way that OG becomes a player that can be the number one option on a contender. However Bagley and the 12th pick (Aaron Nesmith) have the potential to be. The Raptors need to either build a strong offensive coalition that can produce in the playoffs or find high potential guys and push them through their developmental system. I also want to note that Bagley had a decent rookie year and in his short 2nd season he at the very least showed improved FT% and cute down on his turnovers. However, he was asked to start playing the center position.

The difference is on the Raptors he could slowly be turned into a center as Toronto puts him through their Gleague affiate. They could even decline his option after next year if he's a complete bust and re-sign him to be a back up poor man's Siakam. If he works out he could still be a good player they can re-sign for long term. An appropriately developed Bagley is a better player than OG. The Kings' just lack the infrastructure.

Buddy Hield has a lot of offensive talent that can be made useful by Nurse. He has more talent than Norman Powell, despite Powell showing better stats. He can be a great sixth man and create internal competition for Powell that would be healthy for both of them as they develop and approach their primes.

2020 Draft:

Through the draft I would consider Nesmith and Terry. They are high potential shooters and Nesmith comes from a hard working background that I can see propelled by NBA trainers/coaches. I would write off next season for Toronto as a rebuild year (but still go for the playoffs) and focus on slowly incorporating their drafted youth into the rotation in the next two seasons while they compete.
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#18 » by VDT » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:30 am

pr0gr4m wrote:
VDT wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:


Response to Kings' direction:

Lowry would be there mentor and push the King's youth. He could catalyze them for a year as a useful on floor veteran. If Lowry can help lead the Kings to the playoffs it could create a change of culture that they require. In essence it would set a hustle, defensive expectation standard.

For example league wide it falls under radar. Lowry is a league leader in charges taken. Seeing possibly the best player on the floor taking charges and hustling to the absolute last second is exactly what the Kings' youth needs. Lowry's execution and hustle will create for a new culture.

This goes the same way with OG Anunoby. Seeing a guy who you're competing for minutes with hustling and playing hard defense will push the Kings' defensively to possibly be top ten next season.

mademan wrote:Hate the value for the Raps. For the Kings, i'd easily do this trade and try to flip Lowry for another asset. To me, Hield is a bad contract and Bagley/12 for OG is a steal


Response for Raptors direction:

For the Raptors to really compete for a championship they really need to test their developmental system and Lowry has the highest value right now.

During the season Lowry's salary would cause such an overhaul that contenders will not want him and a short term rental wouldn't make sense for a developing team. I explained why the Kings', who are on the brink on being a playoff team, above would want him. I consider them to be a specific situation since they've been losing for nearly 2 decades.

There is absolutely no way that OG becomes a player that can be the number one option on a contender. However Bagley and the 12th pick (Aaron Nesmith) have the potential to be. The Raptors need to either build a strong offensive coalition that can produce in the playoffs or find high potential guys and push them through their developmental system. I also want to note that Bagley had a decent rookie year and in his short 2nd season he at the very least showed improved FT% and cute down on his turnovers. However, he was asked to start playing the center position.

The difference is on the Raptors he could slowly be turned into a center as Toronto puts him through their Gleague affiate. They could even decline his option after next year if he's a complete bust and re-sign him to be a back up poor man's Siakam. If he works out he could still be a good player they can re-sign for long term. An appropriately developed Bagley is a better player than OG. The Kings' just lack the infrastructure.

Buddy Hield has a lot of offensive talent that can be made useful by Nurse. He has more talent than Norman Powell, despite Powell showing better stats. He can be a great sixth man and create internal competition for Powell that would be healthy for both of them as they develop and approach their primes.

2020 Draft:

Through the draft I would consider Nesmith and Terry. They are high potential shooters and Nesmith comes from a hard working background that I can see propelled by NBA trainers/coaches. I would write off next season for Toronto as a rebuild year (but still go for the playoffs) and focus on slowly incorporating their drafted youth into the rotation in the next two seasons while they compete.


The Kings are a rebuilding team, which means that they should value upside. OG's upside is limited, he is a roleplayer that will need to get paid. If the Kings wanted to get him they could just make a good offer next year and force Toronto to overpay him or let him go. You dont give value, as a rebuilding team, for a roleplayer that will want a new contract next year.

You also dont give value for one year of old Lowry on a max contract. Particularly since their best player plays the same position. If they want some veteran leadership they can get that much cheaper.
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#19 » by pr0gr4m » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:47 am

VDT wrote:The Kings are a rebuilding team, which means that they should value upside. OG's upside is limited, he is a roleplayer that will need to get paid. If the Kings wanted to get him they could just make a good offer next year and force Toronto to overpay him or let him go. You dont give value, as a rebuilding team, for a roleplayer that will want a new contract next year.

You also dont give value for one year of old Lowry on a max contract. Particularly since their best player plays the same position. If they want some veteran leadership they can get that much cheaper.

For a team that hasn't gotten to the playoffs in 20 years Lowry could mentor Fox for a year. He is a great off ball defensive player.

The Kings are a poorly run franchise that needs to get to the playoffs at all cost. Fox isn't that good he's a PG that can't shoot when has there been a NBA champion with a poor shooting PG?

You also dump Hield who coaching staff turned into a 20 million dollar bench player.

This is a fair deal in terms of value with the Kings winning right now. However, if Toronto can plug those pieces into their line up appropriately it could be a win for Toronto down the road.
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Re: Raptors - Kings (Lowry/OG for Hield/Bagley/Fillers/12th) 

Post#20 » by HartfordWhalers » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:09 am

Mr Swagtastic wrote:Hield probably has to be routed to a third team like Dallas for THJ and #18?

If Dallas would do that, I think Sac would have done it already. But it cuts Dallas cap flexibility and should be a no from Dallas.

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