Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana

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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#21 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:43 am

loserX wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:MDA ran great offenses with Amare and Matrix. So no reason he couldn't make use of Sabonis and Turner.


Well, Marion in particular is quite a different player than Turner or Sabonis. I can't see that latter pairing flourishing in a SSOL offence, for instance.

(To be fair, Turner is not the same player as Pau Gasol either. If D'Antoni goes that route he can at least feel better about Turner's range.)

This is not to say MDA can't make it work. Like I said, he's a very smart guy. But he'll have his work cut out for him.



I should have explained myself better. I wasn't trying to say he could make it work because the Suns bigs and the Pacers bigs are similar, but that he's made it work without Harden and the 4 dwarfs in the past.

I just have faith that MDA understands offense at a really high level and could make a good offense, provided he has an engine, with a variety of parts. Just like Rick Carlisle got create offense out of old man Dirk and JJ Barea and now gets great offense out of Luka and shooters. I have faith in the coach.
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#22 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:50 am

Also can we really call Houston SSOL? They really didn’t look like that to me against OKC
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#23 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:02 am

Texas Chuck wrote: I have faith in the coach.
And I have faith that Pritchard will only hire someone who checks his boxes.
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#24 » by NYG » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:16 am

Wizop wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote: I have faith in the coach.
And I have faith that Pritchard will only hire someone who checks his boxes.


Who do you think will?
Atlantic https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/17/atlantic-division-mock-off-season/
Central https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/22/central-division-mock-off-season/
Southeast https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/11/southeast-division-mock-off-season/
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#25 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:29 am

NYG wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote: I have faith in the coach.
And I have faith that Pritchard will only hire someone who checks his boxes.


Who do you think will?
I'm not saying D'Antoni can't do it, but he'll need to be convincing in interviews. I like Becky or a college coach but I'm starting to think they have an assistant coach in mind to interview whose team is still playing.

Tom Moore the Colts retired offensive coordinator convinced me that a coach should put his players in a position to do what they do best. I don't like coaches who demand a roster that fits their play book. If you say D'Antoni can be flexible, I have no reason to doubt you.

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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#26 » by NYG » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:47 am

Wizop wrote:
NYG wrote:
Wizop wrote:And I have faith that Pritchard will only hire someone who checks his boxes.


Who do you think will?
I'm not saying D'Antoni can't do it, but he'll need to be convincing in interviews. I like Becky or a college coach but I'm starting to think they have an assistant coach in mind to interview whose team is still playing.

Tom Moore the Colts retired offensive coordinator convinced me that a coach should put his players in a position to do what they do best. I don't like coaches who demand a roster that fits their play book. If you say D'Antoni can be flexible, I have no reason to doubt you.

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I think him getting hired would likely see Oladipo traded before the bigs.
Atlantic https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/17/atlantic-division-mock-off-season/
Central https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/22/central-division-mock-off-season/
Southeast https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/11/southeast-division-mock-off-season/
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#27 » by K_chile22 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:53 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Also can we really call Houston SSOL? They really didn’t look like that to me against OKC
They were not at all, especially with CP when his rockets team peaked. They were very slow. MDA is more flexible than people give him credit for. My only real gripes with him were short rotations/not giving young/bench guys chances and not calling timeouts quick enough. He'd be great anywhere he went, though I do think he'd like more PnR handling
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#28 » by Topofthekey » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:59 am

Godaddycurse wrote:
Village Idiot wrote:Oladipo and Warren for Siakam
Turner for Smart, Poirier and 14

Smart
Brogdon
Holiday
Siakam
Sabonis


I was actually thinking turner, warren & pick for siakam. Toronto doesn't have enough minutes at the guards for dipo if fvv is coming back, and he's a pending FA which cuts into his value.

If I were the Pacers, I wouldn't trade Turner for Siakam, or Warren + pick for Siakam

No chance that entire package is entertained
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#29 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:02 am

NYG wrote:
I think him [D'Antoni] getting hired would likely see Oladipo traded before the bigs.
I think that is true regardless of who is hired. I think Turner and Sabonis want to stay. Whether Dipo wants to force a trade is yet to be seen but I think it is more likely than us hiring a coach who won't try to make the 2 bigs lineup work.

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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#30 » by NYG » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 am

Wizop wrote:
NYG wrote:
I think him [D'Antoni] getting hired would likely see Oladipo traded before the bigs.
I think that is true regardless of who is hired. I think Turner and Sabonis want to stay. Whether Dipo wants to force a trade is yet to be seen but I think it is more likely than us hiring a coach who won't try to make the 2 bigs lineup work.

Sent from my phone.


Yeah and some team will make a good enough offer that has better long-term value to the franchise.
Atlantic https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/17/atlantic-division-mock-off-season/
Central https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/22/central-division-mock-off-season/
Southeast https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/11/southeast-division-mock-off-season/
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#31 » by Godaddycurse » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:25 am

Topofthekey wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
Village Idiot wrote:Oladipo and Warren for Siakam
Turner for Smart, Poirier and 14

Smart
Brogdon
Holiday
Siakam
Sabonis


I was actually thinking turner, warren & pick for siakam. Toronto doesn't have enough minutes at the guards for dipo if fvv is coming back, and he's a pending FA which cuts into his value.

If I were the Pacers, I wouldn't trade Turner for Siakam, or Warren + pick for Siakam

No chance that entire package is entertained


Didn't know turner and warren turned into an all-star overnight. FWIW i was basing my proposal off previous value thread where people said warren is about mid-late lotto pick, turner early lotto pick, while siakam is worth #1 overall + more. Its cool if both sides prefer their own players though. I was just chiming in on the other person's suggestion for a siakam trade.
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#32 » by Topofthekey » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:40 am

Godaddycurse wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
I was actually thinking turner, warren & pick for siakam. Toronto doesn't have enough minutes at the guards for dipo if fvv is coming back, and he's a pending FA which cuts into his value.

If I were the Pacers, I wouldn't trade Turner for Siakam, or Warren + pick for Siakam

No chance that entire package is entertained


Didn't know turner and warren turned into an all-star overnight. FWIW i was basing my proposal off previous value thread where people said warren is about mid-late lotto pick, turner early lotto pick, while siakam is worth #1 overall + more. Its cool if both sides prefer their own players though. I was just chiming in on the other person's suggestion for a siakam trade.

That's fair

I was comparing the season that Warren and Siakam had, and TBH they are close enough to me (especially if the playoffs are taken into consideration)

What tipped me towards a no is the difference in the money that they make. Siakam is the better and more valuable player overall definitely, but I don't think he is three times better than Warren, even though he makes three times the money

It also means that to make a Warren-Siakam swap possible, Pacers will need to add salary fillers, such as McDermott + Lamb. Granted Lamb is injured atm, but a McDermott + Lamb package still has positive value. Add in a pick as well, and it starts getting tough to balance the value, to me. And if Turner is added into the mix too, then that becomes a very firm no
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#33 » by Godaddycurse » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:49 am

Topofthekey wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:If I were the Pacers, I wouldn't trade Turner for Siakam, or Warren + pick for Siakam

No chance that entire package is entertained


Didn't know turner and warren turned into an all-star overnight. FWIW i was basing my proposal off previous value thread where people said warren is about mid-late lotto pick, turner early lotto pick, while siakam is worth #1 overall + more. Its cool if both sides prefer their own players though. I was just chiming in on the other person's suggestion for a siakam trade.

That's fair

I was comparing the season that Warren and Siakam had, and TBH they are close enough to me (especially if the playoffs are taken into consideration)

What tipped me towards a no is the difference in the money that they make. Siakam is the better and more valuable player overall definitely, but I don't think he is three times better than Warren, even though he makes three times the money

It also means that to make a Warren-Siakam swap possible, Pacers will need to add salary fillers, such as McDermott + Lamb. Granted Lamb is injured atm, but a McDermott + Lamb package still has positive value. Add in a pick as well, and it starts getting tough to balance the value, to me. And if Turner is added into the mix too, then that becomes a very firm no


Imo you can't count player value that easily. is oladipo going to be 3x better than warren even if he recovers to form? no but pacers will still pay him the max. There is a finite amount of playing time/ball to go around and at the end of the day it is a stars' league. Especially for a team with solid depth on their bench and other good starters sabonis/oladipo/brogdon, it is better to consolidate their assets to get another all star vs having another 2 good starters imo (money being neutral for next 2 years). Siakam will be entering his prime and is controlled for 4 years, where as warren will only be cheap for 2 more and Turner controlled 3 more.
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#34 » by Topofthekey » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:13 am

Godaddycurse wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
Didn't know turner and warren turned into an all-star overnight. FWIW i was basing my proposal off previous value thread where people said warren is about mid-late lotto pick, turner early lotto pick, while siakam is worth #1 overall + more. Its cool if both sides prefer their own players though. I was just chiming in on the other person's suggestion for a siakam trade.

That's fair

I was comparing the season that Warren and Siakam had, and TBH they are close enough to me (especially if the playoffs are taken into consideration)

What tipped me towards a no is the difference in the money that they make. Siakam is the better and more valuable player overall definitely, but I don't think he is three times better than Warren, even though he makes three times the money

It also means that to make a Warren-Siakam swap possible, Pacers will need to add salary fillers, such as McDermott + Lamb. Granted Lamb is injured atm, but a McDermott + Lamb package still has positive value. Add in a pick as well, and it starts getting tough to balance the value, to me. And if Turner is added into the mix too, then that becomes a very firm no


Imo you can't count player value that easily. is oladipo going to be 3x better than warren even if he recovers to form? no but pacers will still pay him the max. There is a finite amount of playing time/ball to go around and at the end of the day it is a stars' league. Especially for a team with solid depth on their bench and other good starters sabonis/oladipo/brogdon, it is better to consolidate their assets to get another all star vs having another 2 good starters imo (money being neutral for next 2 years). Siakam will be entering his prime and is controlled for 4 years, where as warren will only be cheap for 2 more and Turner controlled 3 more.

Agreed

That's why if there's a way to make a one to one Warren-Siakam swap (for example, if Pacers have the cap space to absorb the salary difference), there's no reason for Pacers to say no, and no reason for Raptors to say yes

But there isn't a way for a one to one swap, so salary fillers will be needed

As mentioned, the salary fillers from Pacers all have positive value. Add in a pick as well, and that tips me towards no. It's definitely something that both sides can haggle over, depending on the needs of their team, and it may be the case where both teams prefer their own players as you said

It's when Turner gets thrown in as well it becomes a firm no
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#35 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:26 am

I don't expect my Pacers to prefer paying one person 35 over two 17s. Nor do I see us paying tax. The State has a long history of team basketball. Knight's IU championship teams didn't send many stars to the pros. Even Hayward's Butler teams didn't play hero ball.

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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#36 » by enzino » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:53 am

Village Idiot wrote:Oladipo and Warren for Siakam
Turner for Smart, Poirier and 14

Smart
Brogdon
Holiday
Siakam
Sabonis

imho
smart >>turner
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#37 » by 100proof » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:57 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:I don't think there is any chance D'Antoni comes to Indiana. He's going to Philly.



Wrong coach for them
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#38 » by TGW » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:02 pm

Would Indiana do Turner for Bertans in a S&T?
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#39 » by r0drig0lac » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:33 pm

S&T for Bertans
maybe try get Buddy Hield
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Re: Hypothetical - D’Antoni to Indiana 

Post#40 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:05 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:MDA ran great offenses with Amare and Matrix. So no reason he couldn't make use of Sabonis and Turner. That said I think his first priority would be to go get the engine for his offense and he'd include either or both of those guys to get him. I love Brogdon, but I don't think MDA would see him or Dipo as being The Man and would push to get that guy.

I'd expect a hard push for Harden or Dame and then him settling on trying to get Dragic for one year to try again the following off-season. Or maybe he tries to move Dipo to a 3rd team and brings in Chris Paul.
I don't see Pritchard wanting a 30 year old big name. If Mike proposes that plan, I'd hope we don't hire him. Well I hope that anyway but I hope if we do hire him he commits to the roster ... unless Dipo demands a trade no matter who coaches.

Turner and Sabonis think they can play together and I think we should let them try. Plus we have a small ball option with Sabonis at center and McConnell and AHoliday at the guards. Sumner could be the 3. Doug, JHolla, Jakarr, and Alize all options. A new coach could resurrect Leaf at 5.

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I feel like you have a lot of confidence in fringe nba players to become contributors. I was at X with Sumner, how can he play the 3? He’s a PG, SG as a stretch


If you are what you defend in the NBA, he’s a 1-3, with the ability to defend some 4’s. He’s longer than his 6’4” frame, so he’s switchable.

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