Turner to the Celtics - How?

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Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#1 » by 100proof » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:31 pm

What does that deal look like?
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#2 » by loserX » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:35 pm

The Pacers are win-now, so it's going to cost you a player (unless you can somehow scrape up enough draft pick value to coax in a third team).

Most likely they ask for Jaylen Brown, and at that point I don't blame Boston for just looking for a cheaper option.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#3 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:51 pm

It's tough. From the Boston perspective you'd love to use Hayward plus picks as the path there, but that likely requires a 3rd team and even then its tricky.

something like Hayward/#14/future pick(s) for Turner/Lamb with Boston likely using its late firsts to dump Lamb elsewhere. But with no extension that's a tough sell for Indy. Maybe a 3rd team to take Hayward?
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#4 » by 100proof » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:58 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:It's tough. From the Boston perspective you'd love to use Hayward plus picks as the path there, but that likely requires a 3rd team and even then its tricky.

something like Hayward/#14/future pick(s) for Turner/Lamb with Boston likely using its late firsts to dump Lamb elsewhere. But with no extension that's a tough sell for Indy. Maybe a 3rd team to take Hayward?


That is kind of my thoughts here, also Kemba could be in play to a 3rd team.

What does indy need in return for dealing Turner though? Cap savings? A center in return? Wing players?
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#5 » by Resistance » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:07 pm

Golden State
Cleveland
Minnesota
Atlanta
Detroit
New York
Chicago
Charlotte
Washington
Phoenix
San Antonio
Sacramento
New Orleans
Portland
Memphis
Orlando
Brooklyn
Dallas
Philadelphia
Indiana
Oklahoma City
Utah
Houston
Miami
Boston
Denver
LA Clippers
Toronto
LA Lakers
Milwaukee


After removing the teams that are considered to be in rebuilds and not pushing to be in the playoffs next season, that leaves:

Golden State
Minnesota
Atlanta
Washington
Phoenix
San Antonio - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
New Orleans
Portland
Memphis
Orlando - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
Brooklyn
Dallas
Philadelphia
Indiana
Oklahoma City - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
Utah
Houston
Miami
Boston
Denver
LA Clippers
Toronto
LA Lakers
Milwaukee



If Boston is offering a package with most of the value in picks (rather than talented players) to a team wanting to be in the playoffs next season, then they will need to make a strong offer because the other team is being asked to take a step back in their pursuit of making the playoffs.


Let me flip the discussion the other way to illustrate the point.

Boston is in the playoffs this season and projects to be in the playoffs next season. If another team wants to trade for Brown with most of the value in picks (future value), is Boston going to be eager to make the trade? Probably not unless the offer is totally overwhelming. Why should Boston take a step backwards in the pursuit to make the playoffs when Walker and Hayward are both 30 and might be decling soon?


Is Boston going to make a strong offer for Turner (or similar) so the other team can justify taking a step backwards towards the goal of making the playoffs?
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#6 » by patman66 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:09 pm

The pacers need a 4 with range and decent defense and a back up 5.

I would think a 4 team with the clippers and kings would have to be in place.

Jymichal Green from the clippers in a trade for Kanter. 5 mill of salary
Bjelica from the kings for the 30th + porier 8 mil in salary
Langford, Theis 14 from the celts. 9 mill

pacers dump leaf on the kings.

Pacers get what they need and a late lottery pick. Langford develops under dipo, and cap flexibility
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#7 » by Resistance » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:10 pm

100proof wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:It's tough. From the Boston perspective you'd love to use Hayward plus picks as the path there, but that likely requires a 3rd team and even then its tricky.

something like Hayward/#14/future pick(s) for Turner/Lamb with Boston likely using its late firsts to dump Lamb elsewhere. But with no extension that's a tough sell for Indy. Maybe a 3rd team to take Hayward?


That is kind of my thoughts here, also Kemba could be in play to a 3rd team.

What does indy need in return for dealing Turner though? Cap savings? A center in return? Wing players?



A good mobile defensive big with some range that can help Sabonis and others that aren't that strong on defense.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#8 » by 100proof » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:11 pm

Resistance wrote:Golden State
Cleveland
Minnesota
Atlanta
Detroit
New York
Chicago
Charlotte
Washington
Phoenix
San Antonio
Sacramento
New Orleans
Portland
Memphis
Orlando
Brooklyn
Dallas
Philadelphia
Indiana
Oklahoma City
Utah
Houston
Miami
Boston
Denver
LA Clippers
Toronto
LA Lakers
Milwaukee


After removing the teams that are considered to be in rebuilds and not pushing to be in the playoffs next season, that leaves:

Golden State
Minnesota
Atlanta
Washington
Phoenix
San Antonio - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
New Orleans
Portland
Memphis
Orlando - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
Brooklyn
Dallas
Philadelphia
Indiana
Oklahoma City - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
Utah
Houston
Miami
Boston
Denver
LA Clippers
Toronto
LA Lakers
Milwaukee



If Boston is offering a package with most of the value in picks (rather than talented players) to a team wanting to be in the playoffs next season, then they will need to make a strong offer because the other team is being asked to take a step back in their pursuit of making the playoffs.


Let me flip the discussion the other way to illustrate the point.

Boston is in the playoffs this season and projects to be in the playoffs next season. If another team wants to trade for Brown with most of the value in picks (future value), is Boston going to be eager to make the trade? Probably not unless the offer is totally overwhelming. Why should Boston take a step backwards in the pursuit to make the playoffs when Walker and Hayward are both 30 and might be decling soon?


Is Boston going to make a strong offer for Turner (or similar) so the other team can justify taking a step backwards towards the goal of making the playoffs?


Its apples and oranges really.

Boston will shop Hayward, and potentially for picks and lesser players, because team wants to free payroll and also has Brown and Tatum who play the same position.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#9 » by Godaddycurse » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:11 pm

patman66 wrote:The pacers need a 4 with range and decent defense and a back up 5.

I would think a 4 team with the clippers and kings would have to be in place.

Jymichal Green from the clippers in a trade for Kanter. 5 mill of salary
Bjelica from the kings for the 30th + porier 8 mil in salary
Langford, Theis 14 from the celts. 9 mill

pacers dump leaf on the kings.

Pacers get what they need and a late lottery pick. Langford develops under dipo, and cap flexibility


Pacers need a consolidation trade, not acquire another bunch of smaller pieces.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#10 » by Resistance » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:17 pm

100proof wrote:
Resistance wrote:
After removing the teams that are considered to be in rebuilds and not pushing to be in the playoffs next season, that leaves:

Golden State
Minnesota
Atlanta
Washington
Phoenix
San Antonio - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
New Orleans
Portland
Memphis
Orlando - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
Brooklyn
Dallas
Philadelphia
Indiana
Oklahoma City - Maybe yes, maybe no about wanting to be in the playoffs
Utah
Houston
Miami
Boston
Denver
LA Clippers
Toronto
LA Lakers
Milwaukee



If Boston is offering a package with most of the value in picks (rather than talented players) to a team wanting to be in the playoffs next season, then they will need to make a strong offer because the other team is being asked to take a step back in their pursuit of making the playoffs.


Let me flip the discussion the other way to illustrate the point.

Boston is in the playoffs this season and projects to be in the playoffs next season. If another team wants to trade for Brown with most of the value in picks (future value), is Boston going to be eager to make the trade? Probably not unless the offer is totally overwhelming. Why should Boston take a step backwards in the pursuit to make the playoffs when Walker and Hayward are both 30 and might be decling soon?


Is Boston going to make a strong offer for Turner (or similar) so the other team can justify taking a step backwards towards the goal of making the playoffs?


Its apples and oranges really.

Boston will shop Hayward, and potentially for picks and lesser players, because team wants to free payroll and also has Brown and Tatum who play the same position.



Hayward is 30 and has one year left on his contract (PO).

Brown is 23 and has four years left on his contract.

Turner is 24 and has three years left on his contract.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#11 » by hugepatsfan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:25 pm

Only realistic way I see it getting done is Hayward for Turner. Obviously not Tatum. Brown is not a good piece to move for Turner. Smart could be in theory, but IND doesn't need another guard and I think his perimeter defense is of more value than big man defense anyway. So for a Hayward deal to work, that takes a couple of things:

1) IND needs to want to move away from a 2 big system to small ball. Rumored interest in D'Antoni is a step in this direction but they have other candidates who might view things differently. In a small ball system, a Hayward/Warren combo at SF/PF is good.

2) If #1 happens, IND needs to decide that Turner is the guy to move over Sabonis. Not sure of that because Turner's defense helps accommodate small ball at the PF spot and his shooting is another good compliment.

3) Hayward needs to agree to either an opt out and S&T at a number IND likes or he has to tack on years to the end of his deal. IND won't move Turner for a rental so Hayward would need to be extended. I do think that has a good shot of being worked out.

4) In conjunction with above, IND needs to stay below the tax. This means Boston is likely taking back Lamb and Leaf. That means Boston has to be committed to the tax themselves.

5) IND needs to commit to staying competitive. If they decide to move Dipo and rebuild then obviously a Hayward piece means nothing. Their history is to always stay competitive but you never know.

6) No one else can offer something better for Turner. Kind of in conjunction with #5. I'm not sure they get offered a better individual player than Hayward if they do move Turner, but they could get someone younger or a draft pick. Depending on direction that could be valued more.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#12 » by patman66 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:33 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
patman66 wrote:The pacers need a 4 with range and decent defense and a back up 5.

I would think a 4 team with the clippers and kings would have to be in place.

Jymichal Green from the clippers in a trade for Kanter. 5 mill of salary
Bjelica from the kings for the 30th + porier 8 mil in salary
Langford, Theis 14 from the celts. 9 mill

pacers dump leaf on the kings.

Pacers get what they need and a late lottery pick. Langford develops under dipo, and cap flexibility


Pacers need a consolidation trade, not acquire another bunch of smaller pieces.


Well what are they consolidating? Sampson and Holiday are FA and holiday is locked in by stupid rules to get a sub market deal. Lamb has a torn ACL, They got Doug backing up Warren. I see a team that needs help at the 4 and a backup center.
Dipo is at the bottom of his value right now, Are you thinking Warren and Turner for a star? There is no one else to add to Turner to increase his value. They don't even have a first.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#13 » by giberish » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:39 pm

Turner is a youngish player on a very good value contract who fits a role that's in-demand for many teams. And overpaid Hayward and expendable filler isn't getting Turner. Boston would have to give up something they don't want to.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#14 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:03 pm

100proof wrote:What does indy need in return for dealing Turner though? Cap savings? A center in return? Wing players?


a 3 point shooting, perimeter defender to play with Sabonis. I think that's more Brown than Hayward although Hayward is an Indianapolis native.

but I think we'd move Oladipo before either Turner or Sabonis.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#15 » by mademan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:04 pm

Turner/1st for Smart
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#16 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:13 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:Pacers need a consolidation trade, not acquire another bunch of smaller pieces.


couldn't disagree more. we like Brogdon, Oladip, Warren, Turner and Sabonis. that unit played a grand total of 86 minutes together last year. less than two full games. the playoff exit means nothing because Sabonis was injured and while he is a good starter, he's a great 2nd unit focal point.

you are right though that we're not after a bunch of little pieces. we want one little piece - a backup 4.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#17 » by tester551 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:14 pm

100proof wrote:What does that deal look like?

He's a Free Agent. They just sign him for the MLE....
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turneev01.html
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#18 » by youOK » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:41 pm

It would be a pretty huge risk to trade Turner for one year of Hayward and roll with Hayward/Oladipo considering their age/injury histories. I fully acknowledge he's not worth Brown but I can't picture anything else on the Celtics being attractive. Given Romeo's rookie year and his own injury history, I doubt he's worth much or considered a very attractive asset.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#19 » by hugepatsfan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:46 pm

I do want to make one note on Hayward expiring... it’s very logistical to add years on. Normally that’s tough to do because players won’t take less to extend but Hayward isn’t in that boat. He’s very much a trade and extend candidate rather than a trade and hope he stays guy. Obviously they’d have to come to terms with him but it’s a realistic possibility.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#20 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:51 pm

tester551 wrote:
100proof wrote:What does that deal look like?

He's a Free Agent. They just sign him for the MLE....
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turneev01.html


the link goes to Evan Turner. we're talking about Myles Turner. but if you are thinking Evan Turner to Indy, forget it. we've had one bad experience with him already and one is enough.

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