Turner to the Celtics - How?

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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#21 » by tester551 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:54 pm

Wizop wrote:
tester551 wrote:
100proof wrote:What does that deal look like?

He's a Free Agent. They just sign him for the MLE....
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turneev01.html


the link goes to Evan Turner. we're talking about Myles Turner. but if you are thinking Evan Turner to Indy, forget it. we've had one bad experience with him already and one is enough.

The OP only asked how to get Turner to the Celtics.

He didn't specify which one - so I gave him the appropriate answer. You sign Turner (Evan) as a FA.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#22 » by youOK » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:55 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:I do want to make one note on Hayward expiring... it’s very logistical to add years on. Normally that’s tough to do because players won’t take less to extend but Hayward isn’t in that boat. He’s very much a trade and extend candidate rather than a trade and hope he stays guy. Obviously they’d have to come to terms with him but it’s a realistic possibility.


What's the right value to extend him for though? He's not quite in the Dipo situation but his injury history is certainly risky. Is it assumed to be a foregone conclusion that he picks up his option instead of looking for a long-term deal?
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#23 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:59 pm

I actually really like Gordon's fit in Indiana, especially if MD comes.

Turner, Lamb for Hayward, 14, 30?

If healthy, this is a really, really interesting starting lineup:

G - Vic Oladipo
G - Malcom Brogdon
F - TJ Warren
F - Gordon Hayward
C - Domatas Sabonis
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#24 » by RipPizzaGuy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:13 pm

patman66 wrote:The pacers need a 4 with range and decent defense and a back up 5.

I would think a 4 team with the clippers and kings would have to be in place.

Jymichal Green from the clippers in a trade for Kanter. 5 mill of salary
Bjelica from the kings for the 30th + porier 8 mil in salary
Langford, Theis 14 from the celts. 9 mill

pacers dump leaf on the kings.

Pacers get what they need and a late lottery pick. Langford develops under dipo, and cap flexibility


I think the Kings should be involved, but i've got a bit of a different idea here.

Celtics out: Hayward, Kanter, Romeo, #14, #26
Celtics in: Barnes & Turner

Celtics get Turner, and also another big wing.

Kings out: Barnes, Bjelica, Holmes
Kings in: Romeo, Hayward, Kanter

Kings get Hayward and Romeo for 3 good vets.

Pacers Out: Turner
Pacers in: Bjelica, Holmes, #14, #26

Pacers pick up 2 1st round picks, and get some better fitting pieces for the front court.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#25 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:22 pm

tester551 wrote:The OP only asked how to get Turner to the Celtics.

He didn't specify which one - so I gave him the appropriate answer. You sign Turner (Evan) as a FA.


well if that was your tongue in cheek way of saying the Pacers wouldn't want to send their Turner to an Eastern Conference rival, okay.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#26 » by Wizop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:26 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:G - Vic Oladipo
G - Malcom Brogdon
F - TJ Warren
F - Gordon Hayward
C - Domatas Sabonis


this isn't bad either:

G - TJ Warren
G - Malcom Brogdon
F - Domatas Sabonis
F - Gordon Hayward
C - Myles Turner[/quote]
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#27 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:29 pm

patman66 wrote:The pacers need a 4 with range and decent defense and a back up 5.

I would think a 4 team with the clippers and kings would have to be in place.

Jymichal Green from the clippers in a trade for Kanter. 5 mill of salary
Bjelica from the kings for the 30th + porier 8 mil in salary
Langford, Theis 14 from the celts. 9 mill

pacers dump leaf on the kings.

Pacers get what they need and a late lottery pick. Langford develops under dipo, and cap flexibility


Definitely don’t need a 5. We’ve got Sabonis/Goga there.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#28 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:32 pm

this isn't bad either:
G - TJ Warren
G - Malcom Brogdon
F - Domatas Sabonis
F - Gordon Hayward
C - Myles Turner

[/quote]

I question TJ guarding SG's and think the loss of Vic playmaking hurts. The thing with Vic, Brogdon, Sabonis and Gordon together is just elite, unselfish ball movement. TJ has gotten better in that regard too. That squad has some special passing potential and in a movement league where open 3's are key, thats going to pay dividends.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#29 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:34 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:I do want to make one note on Hayward expiring... it’s very logistical to add years on. Normally that’s tough to do because players won’t take less to extend but Hayward isn’t in that boat. He’s very much a trade and extend candidate rather than a trade and hope he stays guy. Obviously they’d have to come to terms with him but it’s a realistic possibility.



I wouldn’t assume that. Why would Hayward lock up a possibly sub market deal now at quite a bit of length? Why wouldn’t he play out the year and then see what he can get? Why lock yourself out kore than a year before the market other than fear that you’re going to decline quickly, and then the other team should have no interest in the extension. It’s a weird Catch-22.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#30 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:35 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:I actually really like Gordon's fit in Indiana, especially if MD comes.

Turner, Lamb for Hayward, 14, 30?

If healthy, this is a really, really interesting starting lineup:

G - Vic Oladipo
G - Malcom Brogdon
F - TJ Warren
F - Gordon Hayward
C - Domatas Sabonis



Adds $8m-ish in salary, prevents us from using the MLE or re signing Justin Holiday, and likely puts us in the tax. No thanks.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#31 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:37 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
patman66 wrote:The pacers need a 4 with range and decent defense and a back up 5.

I would think a 4 team with the clippers and kings would have to be in place.

Jymichal Green from the clippers in a trade for Kanter. 5 mill of salary
Bjelica from the kings for the 30th + porier 8 mil in salary
Langford, Theis 14 from the celts. 9 mill

pacers dump leaf on the kings.

Pacers get what they need and a late lottery pick. Langford develops under dipo, and cap flexibility


I think the Kings should be involved, but i've got a bit of a different idea here.

Celtics out: Hayward, Kanter, Romeo, #14, #26
Celtics in: Barnes & Turner

Celtics get Turner, and also another big wing.

Kings out: Barnes, Bjelica, Holmes
Kings in: Romeo, Hayward, Kanter

Kings get Hayward and Romeo for 3 good vets.

Pacers Out: Turner
Pacers in: Bjelica, Holmes, #14, #26

Pacers pick up 2 1st round picks, and get some better fitting pieces for the front court.



Neither is better fitting than Turner though. And both would compete to fill the backup big spots, but creates a crater at the starting big spot at the 4. Is the 14/26 supposed to fill the starting 4 spot?
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#32 » by RipPizzaGuy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:47 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
patman66 wrote:The pacers need a 4 with range and decent defense and a back up 5.

I would think a 4 team with the clippers and kings would have to be in place.

Jymichal Green from the clippers in a trade for Kanter. 5 mill of salary
Bjelica from the kings for the 30th + porier 8 mil in salary
Langford, Theis 14 from the celts. 9 mill

pacers dump leaf on the kings.

Pacers get what they need and a late lottery pick. Langford develops under dipo, and cap flexibility


I think the Kings should be involved, but i've got a bit of a different idea here.

Celtics out: Hayward, Kanter, Romeo, #14, #26
Celtics in: Barnes & Turner

Celtics get Turner, and also another big wing.

Kings out: Barnes, Bjelica, Holmes
Kings in: Romeo, Hayward, Kanter

Kings get Hayward and Romeo for 3 good vets.

Pacers Out: Turner
Pacers in: Bjelica, Holmes, #14, #26

Pacers pick up 2 1st round picks, and get some better fitting pieces for the front court.



Neither is better fitting than Turner though. And both would compete to fill the backup big spots, but creates a crater at the starting big spot at the 4. Is the 14/26 supposed to fill the starting 4 spot?


I guess it depends on the next coach. If its Pringles, I would guess Bjelica/Warren would be sharing a ton of time at the 4.

I think 14/26 gives you an opportunity to make moves elsewhere.

I could also see this expanded to include Aaron Gordon. Something where Holmes or Kanter/Lamb and 1 of the picks is routed to Orlando for Gordon.

Final roster for Pacers would be

Sabonis/Goga
Gordon/Bjelica
Warren/Justin Holiday
Dipo/Aaron Holiday
Brogdan/TJ

While still retaining #26
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#33 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:51 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
I think the Kings should be involved, but i've got a bit of a different idea here.

Celtics out: Hayward, Kanter, Romeo, #14, #26
Celtics in: Barnes & Turner

Celtics get Turner, and also another big wing.

Kings out: Barnes, Bjelica, Holmes
Kings in: Romeo, Hayward, Kanter

Kings get Hayward and Romeo for 3 good vets.

Pacers Out: Turner
Pacers in: Bjelica, Holmes, #14, #26

Pacers pick up 2 1st round picks, and get some better fitting pieces for the front court.



Neither is better fitting than Turner though. And both would compete to fill the backup big spots, but creates a crater at the starting big spot at the 4. Is the 14/26 supposed to fill the starting 4 spot?


I guess it depends on the next coach. If its Pringles, I would guess Bjelica/Warren would be sharing a ton of time at the 4.

I think 14/26 gives you an opportunity to make moves elsewhere.

I could also see this expanded to include Aaron Gordon. Something where Holmes or Kanter/Lamb and 1 of the picks is routed to Orlando for Gordon.

Final roster for Pacers would be

Sabonis/Goga
Gordon/Bjelica
Warren/Justin Holiday
Dipo/Aaron Holiday
Brogdan/TJ

While still retaining #26



If it’s D’Antoni, a Sabonis/Gordon duo at the 4/5 spots seems like one of the worst possible combos in the league. Neither is a reliable 3 point shooter in any way, shape, or form. And Gordon can’t really defend or distribute (or just isn’t willing to). What’s he going to do for an MDA system?

And can’t afford to resign Justin Holiday in that scenario either due to luxury tax.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#34 » by hugepatsfan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:51 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:I do want to make one note on Hayward expiring... it’s very logistical to add years on. Normally that’s tough to do because players won’t take less to extend but Hayward isn’t in that boat. He’s very much a trade and extend candidate rather than a trade and hope he stays guy. Obviously they’d have to come to terms with him but it’s a realistic possibility.



I wouldn’t assume that. Why would Hayward lock up a possibly sub market deal now at quite a bit of length? Why wouldn’t he play out the year and then see what he can get? Why lock yourself out kore than a year before the market other than fear that you’re going to decline quickly, and then the other team should have no interest in the extension. It’s a weird Catch-22.


I didn’t mean take a below market deal. Normally extensions aren’t practical because teams can only extend for 120% of the last year on their current deal. With how the scale of max deals going by years of service that’s normally not practical. Like how you guys can’t just extend Dipo now because he makes more by waiting.

Hayward is different in that sense. Any extension tacked onto his current deal can start at 120% if his opt in salary. That’s over $40M which is obviously not what he’s getting. So his extension won’t involve taking less than he can get in FA next year by the rules.

Now the negotiation aspect of it obviously is still there. It’s a balance of what offer is worth locking in now vs waiting. But there are no CBA restrictions that make an extension impossible the way there is in other cases.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#35 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:I do want to make one note on Hayward expiring... it’s very logistical to add years on. Normally that’s tough to do because players won’t take less to extend but Hayward isn’t in that boat. He’s very much a trade and extend candidate rather than a trade and hope he stays guy. Obviously they’d have to come to terms with him but it’s a realistic possibility.



I wouldn’t assume that. Why would Hayward lock up a possibly sub market deal now at quite a bit of length? Why wouldn’t he play out the year and then see what he can get? Why lock yourself out kore than a year before the market other than fear that you’re going to decline quickly, and then the other team should have no interest in the extension. It’s a weird Catch-22.


I didn’t mean take a below market deal. Normally extensions aren’t practical because teams can only extend for 120% of the last year on their current deal. With how the scale of max deals going by years of service that’s normally not practical. Like how you guys can’t just extend Dipo now because he makes more by waiting.

Hayward is different in that sense. Any extension tacked onto his current deal can start at 120% if his opt in salary. That’s over $40M which is obviously not what he’s getting. So his extension won’t involve taking less than he can get in FA next year by the rules.

Now the negotiation aspect of it obviously is still there. It’s a balance of what offer is worth locking in now vs waiting. But there are no CBA restrictions that make an extension impossible the way there is in other cases.



Oh. But the reverse is the problem here. He’s not worth the extension he’s eligible for, so unless he takes less early, he’s probably more unlikely to sign an extension as a trade and extension.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#36 » by RipPizzaGuy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:11 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:

Neither is better fitting than Turner though. And both would compete to fill the backup big spots, but creates a crater at the starting big spot at the 4. Is the 14/26 supposed to fill the starting 4 spot?


I guess it depends on the next coach. If its Pringles, I would guess Bjelica/Warren would be sharing a ton of time at the 4.

I think 14/26 gives you an opportunity to make moves elsewhere.

I could also see this expanded to include Aaron Gordon. Something where Holmes or Kanter/Lamb and 1 of the picks is routed to Orlando for Gordon.

Final roster for Pacers would be

Sabonis/Goga
Gordon/Bjelica
Warren/Justin Holiday
Dipo/Aaron Holiday
Brogdan/TJ

While still retaining #26



If it’s D’Antoni, a Sabonis/Gordon duo at the 4/5 spots seems like one of the worst possible combos in the league. Neither is a reliable 3 point shooter in any way, shape, or form. And Gordon can’t really defend or distribute (or just isn’t willing to). What’s he going to do for an MDA system?

And can’t afford to resign Justin Holiday in that scenario either due to luxury tax.


I said if its D'Antoni I imagine it would be Bjelica and Warren?

Also the scenario where you guys swap Turner/Lamb for Gordon/Bjelica it actually reduces your overall payroll by about 3 million or so. So if resigning Justin isn't possible in this scenario, then it isn't possible right now.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#37 » by patman66 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:32 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
I guess it depends on the next coach. If its Pringles, I would guess Bjelica/Warren would be sharing a ton of time at the 4.

I think 14/26 gives you an opportunity to make moves elsewhere.

I could also see this expanded to include Aaron Gordon. Something where Holmes or Kanter/Lamb and 1 of the picks is routed to Orlando for Gordon.

Final roster for Pacers would be

Sabonis/Goga
Gordon/Bjelica
Warren/Justin Holiday
Dipo/Aaron Holiday
Brogdan/TJ

While still retaining #26



If it’s D’Antoni, a Sabonis/Gordon duo at the 4/5 spots seems like one of the worst possible combos in the league. Neither is a reliable 3 point shooter in any way, shape, or form. And Gordon can’t really defend or distribute (or just isn’t willing to). What’s he going to do for an MDA system?

And can’t afford to resign Justin Holiday in that scenario either due to luxury tax.


I said if its D'Antoni I imagine it would be Bjelica and Warren?

Also the scenario where you guys swap Turner/Lamb for Gordon/Bjelica it actually reduces your overall payroll by about 3 million or so. So if resigning Justin isn't possible in this scenario, then it isn't possible right now.


I think everyone agrees, Justin is leaving and not playing for 6 mil. He will get at least 25% more than that and this will be the first time he can make some money.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#38 » by patman66 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:40 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
patman66 wrote:The pacers need a 4 with range and decent defense and a back up 5.

I would think a 4 team with the clippers and kings would have to be in place.

Jymichal Green from the clippers in a trade for Kanter. 5 mill of salary
Bjelica from the kings for the 30th + porier 8 mil in salary
Langford, Theis 14 from the celts. 9 mill

pacers dump leaf on the kings.

Pacers get what they need and a late lottery pick. Langford develops under dipo, and cap flexibility


I think the Kings should be involved, but i've got a bit of a different idea here.

Celtics out: Hayward, Kanter, Romeo, #14, #26
Celtics in: Barnes & Turner

Celtics get Turner, and also another big wing.

Kings out: Barnes, Bjelica, Holmes
Kings in: Romeo, Hayward, Kanter

Kings get Hayward and Romeo for 3 good vets.

Pacers Out: Turner
Pacers in: Bjelica, Holmes, #14, #26

Pacers pick up 2 1st round picks, and get some better fitting pieces for the front court.



Neither is better fitting than Turner though. And both would compete to fill the backup big spots, but creates a crater at the starting big spot at the 4. Is the 14/26 supposed to fill the starting 4 spot?


Why wouldn't Bjelica play the 4? he is not a rebounder, but neither is turner, he is a better shooter. He can defend 4s too.
But I would think that precious would be the target at 14 for sure and 26 orturo/nadji/Stewart
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#39 » by pacers33granger » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:58 pm

I don't think there's a deal there to be had without a 3rd team somehow. Boston certainly have the value, but the fit isn't good.

- Hayward doesn't fit our timeline and forces either him or Warren to be the PF next to Domas. That's very very bad for our defense.
- I'd personally love Smart, but we have more than enough guards as is.
- Brown is worth much more than Turner.
- No team hates picks, but we're not in the market for them now (or ever really).
- We'd be looking to consolidate talent, not dilute it.

As other Indy fans have pointed out, find us a good defensive PF that can hit threes and we'll talk. But that guy isn't on the table for Turner. Plus Turner is like 80% of that, so it makes the most sense to stick with him.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#40 » by patman66 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:58 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:I do want to make one note on Hayward expiring... it’s very logistical to add years on. Normally that’s tough to do because players won’t take less to extend but Hayward isn’t in that boat. He’s very much a trade and extend candidate rather than a trade and hope he stays guy. Obviously they’d have to come to terms with him but it’s a realistic possibility.



I wouldn’t assume that. Why would Hayward lock up a possibly sub market deal now at quite a bit of length? Why wouldn’t he play out the year and then see what he can get? Why lock yourself out kore than a year before the market other than fear that you’re going to decline quickly, and then the other team should have no interest in the extension. It’s a weird Catch-22.


I am conservative financially, so I think of players and others who are not conservative with money as foolish. If I was hayward, I already made 150 mill and this is my last go round in all likelihood. I leverage my current deal of 34 mill to get a new deal at 4 and 100 to ride out my career. I do this with the eye on if this covid acts up again in the winter, revenue is down 25% and the money will dry up. I also have missed 15 games this year and if I miss 15 more my market value will plummet in this new environment. I am a get mine now kind of guy. I rather be assured of 100 mil than the possibility of getting 75-125 mill over the next 4 years.

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