Turner to the Celtics - How?

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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#61 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:34 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
I said if its D'Antoni I imagine it would be Bjelica and Warren?

Also the scenario where you guys swap Turner/Lamb for Gordon/Bjelica it actually reduces your overall payroll by about 3 million or so. So if resigning Justin isn't possible in this scenario, then it isn't possible right now.


I was replying to your idea that if it’s “Pringle’s” (I assume you mean MDA?) and then said to include the deal of adding Gordon. Which also I think still had Holmes heading to Indy? Any cost cutting is gone at that point.


So I think theres some confusion here.

I said if Pringles is the coach MDA, then I assume Warren/Bjelica would play the 4.

But another alternative to the trade would be having Gordon includes (this is separate from MDA being the coach). In this situation Holmes or Kanter would get routed to Orlando with the other in Sac. Neither would be going to Indiana.

It would be Indiana getting Gordon/Bjelica/#14/#26 for Lamb/Turner from Indis perspective.



Ah. You didn’t mention anything other than the same vein as the MDA thread, so there was no reason to assume anything other than what you’d already said, since that’s all you said.

But no interest in a Gordon/Sabonis front court. Aaron is a terrible shooter overall from over 3’, and when he’s played at his best, he’s played some passing from the pivot, where he’s the much lesser of Sabonis, who is at his best at the same place. Neither is reliable or any threat from 3, so we’d just have a packed paint. Gordon would fit with Turner in a way, though I’m not a fan, but he absolutely doesn’t fit next to Dom in most any way, shape, or form.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#62 » by 100proof » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:35 am

djFan71 wrote:
100proof wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I don't think there's a deal there to be had without a 3rd team somehow. Boston certainly have the value, but the fit isn't good.

- Hayward doesn't fit our timeline and forces either him or Warren to be the PF next to Domas. That's very very bad for our defense.
- I'd personally love Smart, but we have more than enough guards as is.
- Brown is worth much more than Turner.
- No team hates picks, but we're not in the market for them now (or ever really).
- We'd be looking to consolidate talent, not dilute it.

As other Indy fans have pointed out, find us a good defensive PF that can hit threes and we'll talk. But that guy isn't on the table for Turner. Plus Turner is like 80% of that, so it makes the most sense to stick with him.



Hayward and Kanter to Kings
Barnes and a pick to Indy
Turner, Bjelica and McDermott to Boston.

There is your PF that defends and makes 3s.

You know my "Hayward's not opting in to get traded by draft time to go to the Kings" theory by now, so.... you could expand on that and send him to DAL and Wright/THJ to SAC. They still get off Barnes' long term money and save money this year too.

https://tradenba.com/trades/5SCC7SOKr

BOS makes out pretty good in this one, they probably need to send 26 too. Not sure who deserves it more, though - IND or SAC. Maybe split the difference. Keep 26. 30 to IND, 47 to SAC.

EDIT: Maybe BOS doesn't send picks, I dunno, lol.... DAL probably adds a future second to SAC and IND takes it or leaves it. :)


I saw it as more ofba salary dump and tank for kings than keeping hayward long term. But yeah.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#63 » by 100proof » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:42 am

Wow Indy might over value Turner.

And I am most likely undervaluing theis.

Theis was better or equal to everything turner gave this year at a third of the cost. (Turner blocked more shots and shot 1% better on threes at a higher clip) (theis is a superior overall defender)

Guess Celtics will just stick with the cheaper, equally effective player
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#64 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:47 am

Wizop wrote:
tester551 wrote:
100proof wrote:What does that deal look like?

He's a Free Agent. They just sign him for the MLE....
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turneev01.html


the link goes to Evan Turner. we're talking about Myles Turner. but if you are thinking Evan Turner to Indy, forget it. we've had one bad experience with him already and one is enough.


I think he knew that.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#65 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:49 am

tester551 wrote:
Wizop wrote:
tester551 wrote:He's a Free Agent. They just sign him for the MLE....
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turneev01.html


the link goes to Evan Turner. we're talking about Myles Turner. but if you are thinking Evan Turner to Indy, forget it. we've had one bad experience with him already and one is enough.

The OP only asked how to get Turner to the Celtics.

He didn't specify which one - so I gave him the appropriate answer. You sign Turner (Evan) as a FA.



You know that sarcasm is considered a low form of wit. I made the same joke myself. :nod:
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#66 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:51 am

100proof wrote:Wow Indy might over value Turner.

And I am most likely undervaluing theis.

Theis was better or equal to everything turner gave this year at a third of the cost. (Turner blocked more shots and shot 1% better on threes at a higher clip) (theis is a superior overall defender)

Guess Celtics will just stick with the cheaper, equally effective player



I mean, I think the bold is solidly inaccurate, but it would explain why you’d think the final sentence.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#67 » by patman66 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:52 am

Wizop wrote:
patman66 wrote: there are not a lot of good 4s on teams that don't have 5s, or that one that do like toronto and boston the 4s are too much value for turner.
We would rather send Vic West and keep Turner. Then we don't need a starting 4. We just need one worthy of 24 backup minutes half with Turner and half with Sabonis. Vic is worth more than a backup so maybe a smaller deal can be found.


sure getting off of dipo is an option, but everyone of those trades were equally shot down and found wanting. You going to get more for turner than you are for dipo coming off these last two years. Now next summer you can get something very good for him in a sign and trade if here turns to 90% of what he was. but I still don't think it will be better than the value we see here in this thread for turner.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#68 » by pacers33granger » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:59 am

patman66 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
patman66 wrote:
An 18 mill wing is levert, Prince THJ, fournier, you are not going to get a hayward type wing for that price. You are much more likely to get a 4-5 big. You have gold with warren, those deals are surprises and not the norm. If you think hayward is only worth 18 that is surprising, to a fan that is willing to pay dipo 33.


Totally understand that. I would not expect him to take that offer and think he's worth more. Indy's finance issues are overblown, but they still have to be careful with their money. I don't think the team would be comfortable paying a combo of Vic/Hayward close to $60 mil a year for that many years. It's nothing at all against Hayward.

The reality is that the team is committed to keeping Vic and has the rest of the starters on good to decent contracts, but the 3 other guys (sans Turner) still add up to a bit over $51 mil. So beyond the investment risk and losing Turner, we'd likely be losing another key role player due to the finances (Holiday, McDermott, etc.). I just don't see it as workable unless he's willing to take a pretty sizable discount.


Ok great, I understand what you mean now- what you are willing to pay and what he is worth and the constraints that indy has as a pro team in a smaller market. But I think it is unreasonable view by some that they expect a better fit at the 4 but at the same overall talent level of turner and for the same price. That is not gong to happen. Atlanta is not trading you john collins with Cappela. Orlando does not want Turner, Siakem, Maybe PJ Washington, Draymont Green is a match, but the last two years he don't seem like the same guy. Collins from Portland? not with nurkic. there are not a lot of good 4s on teams that don't have 5s, or that one that do like toronto and boston the 4s are too much value for turner.


No argument from me personally. It's the eternal issue with Turner. We're not getting a better PF, so while he's best at C and is minimized at PF, we're better off keeping him and playing him out of position. Honestly it only works because he's ok with it, which is rare out of a young guy. He will never be a star or anything but he's solid and is a great teammate.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#69 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:05 am

pacers33granger wrote:I don't think there's a deal there to be had without a 3rd team somehow. Boston certainly have the value, but the fit isn't good.

- Hayward doesn't fit our timeline and forces either him or Warren to be the PF next to Domas. That's very very bad for our defense.
- I'd personally love Smart, but we have more than enough guards as is.
- Brown is worth much more than Turner.
- No team hates picks, but we're not in the market for them now (or ever really).
- We'd be looking to consolidate talent, not dilute it.

As other Indy fans have pointed out, find us a good defensive PF that can hit threes and we'll talk. But that guy isn't on the table for Turner. Plus Turner is like 80% of that, so it makes the most sense to stick with him.



It makes no sense to talk about trading Turner to the Celtics. Whether it's Brown or Hayward doesn't matter you end up thin at the 4/5 with no real PF on the team at all and no backups unless Goga improves drastically. Unless you think Jakar Sampson is a 24 min per game guy! So all this talk of trading Turner for some unnamed player who is gonna give us what he gives us and then some is pointless. The SG's and SF type options don't help.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#70 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:11 am

100proof wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I don't think there's a deal there to be had without a 3rd team somehow. Boston certainly have the value, but the fit isn't good.

- Hayward doesn't fit our timeline and forces either him or Warren to be the PF next to Domas. That's very very bad for our defense.
- I'd personally love Smart, but we have more than enough guards as is.
- Brown is worth much more than Turner.
- No team hates picks, but we're not in the market for them now (or ever really).
- We'd be looking to consolidate talent, not dilute it.

As other Indy fans have pointed out, find us a good defensive PF that can hit threes and we'll talk. But that guy isn't on the table for Turner. Plus Turner is like 80% of that, so it makes the most sense to stick with him.



Hayward and Kanter to Kings
Barnes and a pick to Indy
Turner, Bjelica and McDermott to Boston.

There is your PF that defends and makes 3s.



One word answer from Indiana! NO!
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#71 » by patman66 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:12 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
patman66 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:

He’s just a massive downgrade at 4 from Turner. He’d play the 4 but he’s much more a bench 4, creating a massive hole at the starting 4 spot that we would need to fill over him. Any draft picks are likely 3-4 years from possibly starting at a 4 and being a positive in that role.


I am refereing to may proposal that has Bjelica and Jymchal Green coming to Indy,
in 20 min green give 5 rebounds and shoots 3s at a .38 clip over the last three years
in 28 min bjlica gives you 6 rebounds and shots 3s at a .400 clip over three years.

I don't see that as a massive hole.

At the back up 5 Theis give you 24 min 6.5 rebounds and shoots with a .600 clip

I don't see a massive hole there either.

The 14th pick could be used on precious who needs a year, but is a Siakem/Bam style big on the upside.

Langford is or will be a fan favorite and is locked up for three years.


If you could combine all those guys into one, no drop off. But it takes 72 minutes a night, as you listed, for them to produce ok numbers in a game that’s only 48 minutes long. And that’s numbers, not even impact.

And if it was so simple to get Bam/Siakam at 14, why don’t teams get them every year? Infinitely rare, not something to just assume will happen.

As for Langford, yeah, he’s an Indiana guy, but he definitely didn’t elicit any warm feelings at IU. He was supposed to be the savior, and is unfairly denigrated for playing through the thumb injury. He’s not Oladipo beloved at all.


What is your issue there are 96 min now between the 4 and the 5. Turner plays 32 and sabonis plays 32 that is 32 more min at the 4 and 5 that will be better than what is is now and Both turner and sabonis are best at the 5, or or are you saying that turner is just as effective playing alongside sabonis as he is when he is manning the pivot.

existing front court total 144 min 48 x 3

Sabonis/Turner/Warren/Doug/Leaf ( now no Holiday he is gone to more money green pastures) vs

Sabonis/Green/Bjelica/Theis/14th pick/Warren/Leaf

And this does not factor in Langford.

yes for the 18 min that turner will play the 5 backing up Sabonis you will see a significant down grade from Turner to theis, but he is good enough to start for the celts and shoot .600 from the field. This isn't mosgov or something.
now at the 18 min turner plays the 4 alongside Sabonis I think the drop off to Green/bjelica is even less than it was at center to theis. Never mind it no longer has Warren playing out of postion at the 4, but can stay at the 3 for the min that were played by Justin. I try to post honestly. Not trying to make it seem otherwise that turner and savonis are the only ones that paly the 4/5 so there is a down grade in the front court for the whole game.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#72 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:17 am

100proof wrote:Wow Indy might over value Turner.

And I am most likely undervaluing theis.

Theis was better or equal to everything turner gave this year at a third of the cost. (Turner blocked more shots and shot 1% better on threes at a higher clip) (theis is a superior overall defender)

Guess Celtics will just stick with the cheaper, equally effective player



Yeah do that! :lol:
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#73 » by patman66 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:37 am

pacers33granger wrote:
patman66 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
Totally understand that. I would not expect him to take that offer and think he's worth more. Indy's finance issues are overblown, but they still have to be careful with their money. I don't think the team would be comfortable paying a combo of Vic/Hayward close to $60 mil a year for that many years. It's nothing at all against Hayward.

The reality is that the team is committed to keeping Vic and has the rest of the starters on good to decent contracts, but the 3 other guys (sans Turner) still add up to a bit over $51 mil. So beyond the investment risk and losing Turner, we'd likely be losing another key role player due to the finances (Holiday, McDermott, etc.). I just don't see it as workable unless he's willing to take a pretty sizable discount.


Ok great, I understand what you mean now- what you are willing to pay and what he is worth and the constraints that indy has as a pro team in a smaller market. But I think it is unreasonable view by some that they expect a better fit at the 4 but at the same overall talent level of turner and for the same price. That is not gong to happen. Atlanta is not trading you john collins with Cappela. Orlando does not want Turner, Siakem, Maybe PJ Washington, Draymont Green is a match, but the last two years he don't seem like the same guy. Collins from Portland? not with nurkic. there are not a lot of good 4s on teams that don't have 5s, or that one that do like toronto and boston the 4s are too much value for turner.


No argument from me personally. It's the eternal issue with Turner. We're not getting a better PF, so while he's best at C and is minimized at PF, we're better off keeping him and playing him out of position. Honestly it only works because he's ok with it, which is rare out of a young guy. He will never be a star or anything but he's solid and is a great teammate.


And I fully understand that. I don't want to downgrade from hayward just because we have Tatum and Brown. I approached the trade by trying to make the Indy frontcourt better for all 144 min at the expense of the 18 min that Turner plays center. I don't think Indy fans understand how losing Justin does to the whole rotation up front. Adding Theis, Bjelica, Green and what ever min the 14th pick gets makes those 18 min a game that Sabonis, Warren and now turner are not playing so much better.
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#74 » by patman66 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:41 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:
100proof wrote:Wow Indy might over value Turner.

And I am most likely undervaluing theis.

Theis was better or equal to everything turner gave this year at a third of the cost. (Turner blocked more shots and shot 1% better on threes at a higher clip) (theis is a superior overall defender)

Guess Celtics will just stick with the cheaper, equally effective player



Yeah do that! :lol:


Yeah, we are still playing all right..
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#75 » by djFan71 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:44 am

pacers33granger wrote:
patman66 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
Totally understand that. I would not expect him to take that offer and think he's worth more. Indy's finance issues are overblown, but they still have to be careful with their money. I don't think the team would be comfortable paying a combo of Vic/Hayward close to $60 mil a year for that many years. It's nothing at all against Hayward.

The reality is that the team is committed to keeping Vic and has the rest of the starters on good to decent contracts, but the 3 other guys (sans Turner) still add up to a bit over $51 mil. So beyond the investment risk and losing Turner, we'd likely be losing another key role player due to the finances (Holiday, McDermott, etc.). I just don't see it as workable unless he's willing to take a pretty sizable discount.


Ok great, I understand what you mean now- what you are willing to pay and what he is worth and the constraints that indy has as a pro team in a smaller market. But I think it is unreasonable view by some that they expect a better fit at the 4 but at the same overall talent level of turner and for the same price. That is not gong to happen. Atlanta is not trading you john collins with Cappela. Orlando does not want Turner, Siakem, Maybe PJ Washington, Draymont Green is a match, but the last two years he don't seem like the same guy. Collins from Portland? not with nurkic. there are not a lot of good 4s on teams that don't have 5s, or that one that do like toronto and boston the 4s are too much value for turner.


No argument from me personally. It's the eternal issue with Turner. We're not getting a better PF, so while he's best at C and is minimized at PF, we're better off keeping him and playing him out of position. Honestly it only works because he's ok with it, which is rare out of a young guy. He will never be a star or anything but he's solid and is a great teammate.

Did you guys do much of the Brogdon/Holiday/X/Warren/<Turner or Sabonis> type lineups where X is other Holiday or whoever was available between Lamb, Dipo, etc? Or McConnell even?

I feel like that would be the "modern" type lineup. If you did, how do the #s look with those lineups with Turner, those lineups with Sabonis, vs lineups with both Tuner & Sabonis together?

Feel free to just point me at a thread if your sub has covered it already... I'm guessing it's come up. :)
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#76 » by dakomish23 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:58 am

MEM pick BOS pick Langford Hayward

Is alright value
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#77 » by Wizop » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:11 am

patman66 wrote:
Wizop wrote:
patman66 wrote: there are not a lot of good 4s on teams that don't have 5s, or that one that do like toronto and boston the 4s are too much value for turner.
We would rather send Vic West and keep Turner. Then we don't need a starting 4. We just need one worthy of 24 backup minutes half with Turner and half with Sabonis. Vic is worth more than a backup so maybe a smaller deal can be found.


sure getting off of dipo is an option, but everyone of those trades were equally shot down and found wanting. You going to get more for turner than you are for dipo coming off these last two years. Now next summer you can get something very good for him in a sign and trade if here turns to 90% of what he was. but I still don't think it will be better than the value we see here in this thread for turner.
I agree that a Dipo deal is unlikely until he becomes a free agent after the next season. Assuming of course that he doesn't make a demand.

I think we'll hire a coach who agrees to see what he can do with Turner and Sabonis together at least until the midseason deadline.

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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#78 » by Wizop » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:15 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I don't think there's a deal there to be had without a 3rd team somehow. Boston certainly have the value, but the fit isn't good.

- Hayward doesn't fit our timeline and forces either him or Warren to be the PF next to Domas. That's very very bad for our defense.
- I'd personally love Smart, but we have more than enough guards as is.
- Brown is worth much more than Turner.
- No team hates picks, but we're not in the market for them now (or ever really).
- We'd be looking to consolidate talent, not dilute it.

As other Indy fans have pointed out, find us a good defensive PF that can hit threes and we'll talk. But that guy isn't on the table for Turner. Plus Turner is like 80% of that, so it makes the most sense to stick with him.



It makes no sense to talk about trading Turner to the Celtics. Whether it's Brown or Hayward doesn't matter you end up thin at the 4/5 with no real PF on the team at all and no backups unless Goga improves drastically. Unless you think Jakar Sampson is a 24 min per game guy! So all this talk of trading Turner for some unnamed player who is gonna give us what he gives us and then some is pointless. The SG's and SF type options don't help.
Correct. Anyone find a secret way to and-1 from the android app?

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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#79 » by Wizop » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:20 am

patman66 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
patman66 wrote:
I am refereing to may proposal that has Bjelica and Jymchal Green coming to Indy,
in 20 min green give 5 rebounds and shoots 3s at a .38 clip over the last three years
in 28 min bjlica gives you 6 rebounds and shots 3s at a .400 clip over three years.

I don't see that as a massive hole.

At the back up 5 Theis give you 24 min 6.5 rebounds and shoots with a .600 clip

I don't see a massive hole there either.

The 14th pick could be used on precious who needs a year, but is a Siakem/Bam style big on the upside.

Langford is or will be a fan favorite and is locked up for three years.


If you could combine all those guys into one, no drop off. But it takes 72 minutes a night, as you listed, for them to produce ok numbers in a game that’s only 48 minutes long. And that’s numbers, not even impact.

And if it was so simple to get Bam/Siakam at 14, why don’t teams get them every year? Infinitely rare, not something to just assume will happen.

As for Langford, yeah, he’s an Indiana guy, but he definitely didn’t elicit any warm feelings at IU. He was supposed to be the savior, and is unfairly denigrated for playing through the thumb injury. He’s not Oladipo beloved at all.


What is your issue there are 96 min now between the 4 and the 5. Turner plays 32 and sabonis plays 32 that is 32 more min at the 4 and 5 that will be better than what is is now and Both turner and sabonis are best at the 5, or or are you saying that turner is just as effective playing alongside sabonis as he is when he is manning the pivot.

existing front court total 144 min 48 x 3

Sabonis/Turner/Warren/Doug/Leaf ( now no Holiday he is gone to more money green pastures) vs

Sabonis/Green/Bjelica/Theis/14th pick/Warren/Leaf

And this does not factor in Langford.

yes for the 18 min that turner will play the 5 backing up Sabonis you will see a significant down grade from Turner to theis, but he is good enough to start for the celts and shoot .600 from the field. This isn't mosgov or something.
now at the 18 min turner plays the 4 alongside Sabonis I think the drop off to Green/bjelica is even less than it was at center to theis. Never mind it no longer has Warren playing out of postion at the 4, but can stay at the 3 for the min that were played by Justin. I try to post honestly. Not trying to make it seem otherwise that turner and savonis are the only ones that paly the 4/5 so there is a down grade in the front court for the whole game.
Turner plays 5 on defense and 4 on offense. Sabonis does the reverse.

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Re: Turner to the Celtics - How? 

Post#80 » by patman66 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:24 am

Wizop wrote:
patman66 wrote:
Wizop wrote:We would rather send Vic West and keep Turner. Then we don't need a starting 4. We just need one worthy of 24 backup minutes half with Turner and half with Sabonis. Vic is worth more than a backup so maybe a smaller deal can be found.


sure getting off of dipo is an option, but everyone of those trades were equally shot down and found wanting. You going to get more for turner than you are for dipo coming off these last two years. Now next summer you can get something very good for him in a sign and trade if here turns to 90% of what he was. but I still don't think it will be better than the value we see here in this thread for turner.
I agree that a Dipo deal is unlikely until he becomes a free agent after the next season. Assuming of course that he doesn't make a demand.

I think we'll hire a coach who agrees to see what he can do with Turner and Sabonis together at least until the midseason deadline.

Sent from my phone.


I don't think he will ever be traded unless dipo is lost to FA/or traded. I do agree that the next coach will try to keep them both on the court.

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