Trade Board General Thoughts Thread

Moderators: loserX, pacers33granger, Texas Chuck, HartfordWhalers, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, Trader_Joe, BullyKing

User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 15,849
And1: 16,543
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#121 » by zimpy27 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:26 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Also, welcome to the off-season ladies and gents, or in other words Trade Board Christmas. Saw our mate Smitty suggesting the moratorium should be lifted in a week or so allowing trading to commence.

"It's the most wonderful of the year"
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
Buzzard
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,849
And1: 2,780
Joined: May 16, 2018
     

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#122 » by Buzzard » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:33 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Congrats to the Lakers (and the Heat) on the title. Reminder to everyone here how valuable one year of a superstar really is.


I don’t think that anything pertaining to Lebron James can be applied generally to other situations. He’s the exception, not the rule.

I could be wrong but other teams don’t have the best player in the league to pair with said superstar.


Wanted to respond to what you added later. Lakers had Lebron but no AD and were fighting to make the playoffs before Lebron shut it down for the year. I don't think anyone had the 18-19 Lakers with Lebron as a serious contender at any point.

I think my point stands with AD, and as SWC points out, the Raptors with Kawhi--and all due respect to Lowry they didn't anything approaching a Lebron in house.


These superstars that become available late in their contracts once their team knows they can't salvage the relationship are worth a ton and its silly how this board continues to justify lowball offers because "rental".

Who are the superstars with one year left that are available this season is a great question. Who do you think is a player that gets moved like AD, Leonard, or George?
"Offense sells tickets, defense wins games, rebounding wins championships." Pat Summitt

"Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships." Paul Bear Bryant
User avatar
TheBrooklynKidd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,903
And1: 2,529
Joined: Jul 31, 2013
     

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#123 » by TheBrooklynKidd » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:39 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Congrats to the Lakers (and the Heat) on the title. Reminder to everyone here how valuable one year of a superstar really is.


I don’t think that anything pertaining to Lebron James can be applied generally to other situations. He’s the exception, not the rule.

I could be wrong but other teams don’t have the best player in the league to pair with said superstar.


Wanted to respond to what you added later. Lakers had Lebron but no AD and were fighting to make the playoffs before Lebron shut it down for the year. I don't think anyone had the 18-19 Lakers with Lebron as a serious contender at any point.

I think my point stands with AD, and as SWC points out, the Raptors with Kawhi--and all due respect to Lowry they didn't anything approaching a Lebron in house.


These superstars that become available late in their contracts once their team knows they can't salvage the relationship are worth a ton and its silly how this board continues to justify lowball offers because "rental".


That makes sense to an extent but i think it would only apply to the true superstars and only if the team receiving the superstar can reasonably compete for a championship after giving up the assets to acquire them. A lot of teams simply can’t do that.

Lost in your claim is the fact that Raptors acquired Kawhi for almost nothing specifically because of the fact that his contract situation and injuries scared away other serious bidders. I think Kawhi is an example of the phenomenon you’re arguing against even though in hindsight it resulted in a championship.
jimmy keys
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,375
And1: 2,460
Joined: Jan 04, 2009
     

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#124 » by jimmy keys » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:44 pm

TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
I don’t think that anything pertaining to Lebron James can be applied generally to other situations. He’s the exception, not the rule.

I could be wrong but other teams don’t have the best player in the league to pair with said superstar.


Wanted to respond to what you added later. Lakers had Lebron but no AD and were fighting to make the playoffs before Lebron shut it down for the year. I don't think anyone had the 18-19 Lakers with Lebron as a serious contender at any point.

I think my point stands with AD, and as SWC points out, the Raptors with Kawhi--and all due respect to Lowry they didn't anything approaching a Lebron in house.


These superstars that become available late in their contracts once their team knows they can't salvage the relationship are worth a ton and its silly how this board continues to justify lowball offers because "rental".


That makes sense to an extent but i think it would only apply to the true superstars and only if the team receiving the superstar can reasonably compete for a championship after giving up the assets to acquire them. A lot of teams simply can’t do that.

Lost in your claim is the fact that Raptors acquired Kawhi for almost nothing specifically because of the fact that his contract situation and injuries scared away other serious bidders. I think Kawhi is an example of the phenomenon you’re arguing against even though in hindsight it resulted in a championship.


His value tanked also because everyone knew he wanted to be in one specific city. Even after winning a chip he still ended up leaving via free agency to LA. That's why his value tanked because there was a 0% chance he'd re-sign with any team not located in LA. The real lesson is to work with players to move them to their desired location. AD got a pretty good return given the circumstances, Melo to NY is another example. San Antonio should have swallowed their pride and created a bidding war between the two LA teams. The return would've been closer to fair value, or at the very least a similar package to the AD/PG trades.
User avatar
JayMKE
RealGM
Posts: 20,361
And1: 7,403
Joined: Jun 21, 2010
Location: WI
     

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#125 » by JayMKE » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:57 pm

there aren't enough Bucks trades for me to say no to
FREE GIANNIS
Fencer reregistered
RealGM
Posts: 25,325
And1: 12,264
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#126 » by Fencer reregistered » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:15 am

Buzzard wrote:
Warriorfan wrote:
Buzzard wrote:If the revenue losses are 20 - 25%, that would be a projected cap of 90 million or less. I agree and think a flat cap is the best compromise.



They are all billionaires but million dollar penalties hurt everyone.

Even though Lacob is not one of the richest owners I doubt he would use it on Wiggins. Rockets are looking to cut salary and I think OKC would too.

Only 5 teams look to be in the luxury so its not dooms day if it stays at 109 without a amnesty. GSW, 76ers, Nets, Celtics, Bucks. The Celtics can get out of it by simply moving 5 - 10 million around. As its been pointed out many times, we are talking about 20-25% loss in revenue; not a loss putting the NBA in the red for profits.


Wait a moment. What do you think typical NBA pretax profit margins are??
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 55,647
And1: 45,972
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: 403 Minutes in the Bay
   

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#127 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:33 am

JayMKE wrote:there aren't enough Bucks trades for me to say no to



I've posted several in recent days, but I don't believe you commented on any of them? My usual theme of seeking shooters along with me listening to Bucks fans instead Bledsoe is not the problem so leaving him out of the most recent offerings.

I'm sure you would have said no if you saw them though? :D
Winston Peters wrote:Sorry, Sunshine, wrong place.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 29,334
And1: 4,481
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#128 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:11 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Do we know what the salary cap/lux tax will be for next season? And, I've never been clear on this, when can we start using 20-21 salaries for trading purposes? Once the moratorium is lifted? After the draft? Some other date?


We have no real idea. We’re kind of assuming a flat salary cap from this year, but still have no idea.

As for 2020/21 salaries, those are used when the league year rolls over. So, post draft, we’ll shut down deals for a week for the “moratorium” (usually July 1-6 or so) to crunch the numbers and set the cap. The league year rolls over as the league starts that moratorium. So, 2019-20 salaries still take place (and draft picks have no assigned salary in trades) since we’re still in the 2019-20 league year.
NYG
Head Coach
Posts: 6,688
And1: 1,072
Joined: Aug 09, 2017

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#129 » by NYG » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:19 am

I honestly think all the teams in the top 5 end up keeping their picks then Atlanta at 6 is where we potentially start seeing movement.

The most comparable draft to me was the pre-lockout draft with all the financial uncertainty and there were 2 trades of note involving veterans (Stephen Jackson and George Hill). I expect a trade or 2 of that caliber this draft.

As a reference...

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6692627

If I counted correctly only 3 top 20 picks were traded and one of them barely made the cut at 19. None if the top 5.

Stephen Jackson and George Hill in 2011 are about the same caliber of player I see traded going into a very uncertain draft due to no college season in a very uncertain financial off-season.

Which 2020 players equal Stephen Jackson and George Hill of 2011? Aaron Gordon and Derrick White?
TheNetsFan
Analyst
Posts: 3,247
And1: 722
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
   

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#130 » by TheNetsFan » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:43 pm

NYG wrote:I honestly think all the teams in the top 5 end up keeping their picks then Atlanta at 6 is where we potentially start seeing movement.

The most comparable draft to me was the pre-lockout draft with all the financial uncertainty and there were 2 trades of note involving veterans (Stephen Jackson and George Hill). I expect a trade or 2 of that caliber this draft.

As a reference...

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6692627

If I counted correctly only 3 top 20 picks were traded and one of them barely made the cut at 19. None if the top 5.

Stephen Jackson and George Hill in 2011 are about the same caliber of player I see traded going into a very uncertain draft due to no college season in a very uncertain financial off-season.

Which 2020 players equal Stephen Jackson and George Hill of 2011? Aaron Gordon and Derrick White?

More context:
Hill netted the Spurs a 1st (#15) and a 2nd, that became Leonard & Bertans. He was entering the final year of his rookie deal.

Jackson was not the same caliber, and he was not traded for #19. He was traded WITH #19 and Livingston for #7 & Maggette.

I would say Dinwiddie might be the closest parallel to Hill, aside from the fact that he would be a UFA (if he opts out) instead of a RFA. Jarrett Allen & Derrick White also probably have comparable value entering the year of their rookie deal. Aaron Gordon is in that same range, but might have slightly higher value due to being locked in to a team friendly deal.
MoneyTalks41890
RealGM
Posts: 18,023
And1: 8,683
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#131 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:09 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Do we know what the salary cap/lux tax will be for next season? And, I've never been clear on this, when can we start using 20-21 salaries for trading purposes? Once the moratorium is lifted? After the draft? Some other date?


We have no real idea. We’re kind of assuming a flat salary cap from this year, but still have no idea.

As for 2020/21 salaries, those are used when the league year rolls over. So, post draft, we’ll shut down deals for a week for the “moratorium” (usually July 1-6 or so) to crunch the numbers and set the cap. The league year rolls over as the league starts that moratorium. So, 2019-20 salaries still take place (and draft picks have no assigned salary in trades) since we’re still in the 2019-20 league year.


Much appreciated. So any draft day trades that can't "be completed later" are going to use 19-20 salaries.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 41,700
And1: 16,247
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
   

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#132 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:14 pm

I would word it the opposite. Any draft trades that cannot be done now will have to use 20-21 salary.

Same idea, just bias towards current salaries and a done deal finalized and announced.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 55,647
And1: 45,972
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: 403 Minutes in the Bay
   

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#133 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:14 pm

Devonte' Graham is worth what? Devonte' Graham is or is not available?
Winston Peters wrote:Sorry, Sunshine, wrong place.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 55,647
And1: 45,972
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: 403 Minutes in the Bay
   

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#134 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:57 pm

It's okay to like trades that benefit your team even if they aren't the ideal trade you would make if you never had to take other teams into consideration.
Winston Peters wrote:Sorry, Sunshine, wrong place.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 55,647
And1: 45,972
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: 403 Minutes in the Bay
   

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#135 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:47 pm

WCS telling local media he loves playing for Rick Carlisle and bought a house in Dallas, telling them if you have any questions about my option read into that. I would think he would still have little issue getting a vet min deal from somebody so surprised he would lock into that, but maybe his agent is hearing a super soft market?

Seems good for Dallas if he does opt in as Powell insurance. Though if Powell is able to reclaim his rotation role, that's 2 roster spots on centers who won't play much on he and Bobi.
Winston Peters wrote:Sorry, Sunshine, wrong place.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,183
And1: 6,030
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#136 » by babyjax13 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:05 pm

It seems that NBA execs are narrowing in on Wiseman as the top prospect in this draft. I think this might increase the value of the first pick.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 55,647
And1: 45,972
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: 403 Minutes in the Bay
   

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#137 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:10 pm

babyjax13 wrote:It seems that NBA execs are narrowing in on Wiseman as the top prospect in this draft. I think this might increase the value of the first pick.



Clarity of any kind should always help the #1 overall pick I agree. I think it would help more if it were a perimeter player rising to the top. You can only play one center at a time whereas any other spot you can stack talent.

And the fact that the Wolves hold it hurts because they can't play Wiseman/Towns together long-term. Mind you if he's the best prospect in their opinion and no team wants to give enough value to come up then you draft him and figure it out down the road, but they'd really have to like one of the wings to move to the top.
Winston Peters wrote:Sorry, Sunshine, wrong place.
BlazersBroncos
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,896
And1: 2,751
Joined: Oct 27, 2016

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#138 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:16 pm

And the fact that the Wolves hold it hurts because they can't play Wiseman/Towns together long-term. Mind you if he's the best prospect in their opinion and no team wants to give enough value to come up then you draft him and figure it out down the road, but they'd really have to like one of the wings to move to the top.


Wiseman is just so talented that I think they have to at least try and play them together. Its all about defense, can KAT be only slightly-worse than neutral guarding PF's? Offensively, there should be zero issue IMO. Maybe draft a small ball PF at 17 to compliment the two tower lineup, like Patrick Williams?

PF - KAT (14) / Jake Layman (20) / Patrick Williams (14)
C - James Wiseman (30) / KAT (18)

You can get KAT 32mpg while only throwing him at PF 14 per night. Its the playoffs that could make this relationship untenable, but I would try it before settling for a much less talented prospect #1 like Edwards or Ball.
NYG
Head Coach
Posts: 6,688
And1: 1,072
Joined: Aug 09, 2017

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#139 » by NYG » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:16 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:It seems that NBA execs are narrowing in on Wiseman as the top prospect in this draft. I think this might increase the value of the first pick.



Clarity of any kind should always help the #1 overall pick I agree. I think it would help more if it were a perimeter player rising to the top. You can only play one center at a time whereas any other spot you can stack talent.

And the fact that the Wolves hold it hurts because they can't play Wiseman/Towns together long-term. Mind you if he's the best prospect in their opinion and no team wants to give enough value to come up then you draft him and figure it out down the road, but they'd really have to like one of the wings to move to the top.


If he’s clearly #1, don’t you take him and admit this Western Conference doesn’t have any avenue to compete for Minnesota and trade Towns as the prime asset on the trade and free agency market?
Ballerhogger
RealGM
Posts: 26,184
And1: 6,958
Joined: Jul 06, 2014
       

Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#140 » by Ballerhogger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:17 pm

I dont see any big spending happen this year so it will be interesting how the affect the trade market,
[tweet
Read on Twitter
?s=20][/tweet]

Return to Trades and Transactions