Trade Board General Thoughts Thread

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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#141 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:23 pm

NYG wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:It seems that NBA execs are narrowing in on Wiseman as the top prospect in this draft. I think this might increase the value of the first pick.



Clarity of any kind should always help the #1 overall pick I agree. I think it would help more if it were a perimeter player rising to the top. You can only play one center at a time whereas any other spot you can stack talent.

And the fact that the Wolves hold it hurts because they can't play Wiseman/Towns together long-term. Mind you if he's the best prospect in their opinion and no team wants to give enough value to come up then you draft him and figure it out down the road, but they'd really have to like one of the wings to move to the top.


If he’s clearly #1, don’t you take him and admit this Western Conference doesn’t have any avenue to compete for Minnesota and trade Towns as the prime asset on the trade and free agency market?


I'm open to trading Towns regardless if the deal is right, but I wouldn't feel any urgency to deal him just by drafting Wiseman who could bust. I just remember that Towns and Butler and very little else was a playoff team in the West just 2 years ago. I'm not sold 100% on Towns as a franchise player, but he's so talented offensively that the if the Wolves put some smarter pieces around him that they could still win with him,
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#142 » by Buzzard » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:44 pm

NYG wrote:I honestly think all the teams in the top 5 end up keeping their picks then Atlanta at 6 is where we potentially start seeing movement.

The most comparable draft to me was the pre-lockout draft with all the financial uncertainty and there were 2 trades of note involving veterans (Stephen Jackson and George Hill). I expect a trade or 2 of that caliber this draft.

As a reference...

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6692627

If I counted correctly only 3 top 20 picks were traded and one of them barely made the cut at 19. None if the top 5.

Stephen Jackson and George Hill in 2011 are about the same caliber of player I see traded going into a very uncertain draft due to no college season in a very uncertain financial off-season.

Which 2020 players equal Stephen Jackson and George Hill of 2011? Aaron Gordon and Derrick White?

I think those players, Gordon and White, are close. Murray might be looked at like Hill as well. Whoever trades for them will probably see them as starters. Hill started for the Pacers right away when he was traded for 15 and Jackson did as well for the Bucks.

The Jackson trade was a big one that involved three teams, five players, and picks 7. 10, and 19 being swapped around.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#143 » by pacers33granger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:13 pm

babyjax13 wrote:It seems that NBA execs are narrowing in on Wiseman as the top prospect in this draft. I think this might increase the value of the first pick.


If teams are iffy about Edwards' drive and IQ, it has to be Wiseman at 1. There just isn't another player in this draft even remotely worth the top pick outside of those two.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#144 » by Buzzard » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:24 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
NYG wrote:I honestly think all the teams in the top 5 end up keeping their picks then Atlanta at 6 is where we potentially start seeing movement.

The most comparable draft to me was the pre-lockout draft with all the financial uncertainty and there were 2 trades of note involving veterans (Stephen Jackson and George Hill). I expect a trade or 2 of that caliber this draft.

As a reference...

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6692627

If I counted correctly only 3 top 20 picks were traded and one of them barely made the cut at 19. None if the top 5.

Stephen Jackson and George Hill in 2011 are about the same caliber of player I see traded going into a very uncertain draft due to no college season in a very uncertain financial off-season.

Which 2020 players equal Stephen Jackson and George Hill of 2011? Aaron Gordon and Derrick White?

More context:
Hill netted the Spurs a 1st (#15) and a 2nd, that became Leonard & Bertans. He was entering the final year of his rookie deal.

Jackson was not the same caliber, and he was not traded for #19. He was traded WITH #19 and Livingston for #7 & Maggette.

I would say Dinwiddie might be the closest parallel to Hill, aside from the fact that he would be a UFA (if he opts out) instead of a RFA. Jarrett Allen & Derrick White also probably have comparable value entering the year of their rookie deal. Aaron Gordon is in that same range, but might have slightly higher value due to being locked in to a team friendly deal.

Jackson was seen as higher quality but he was also 32/33 in 2011. If it had not been for Tobias Harris panning out at 19, that trade would have been a complete loss for the Bucks.

I agree with the take that trades are going to be few; especially in the top 20. If you are not getting a starter back in return you are better off rolling the dice for one in the draft. Its the same every season but the 4 years of cost control could be seen as even more important this year.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#145 » by NYG » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:02 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
NYG wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:

Clarity of any kind should always help the #1 overall pick I agree. I think it would help more if it were a perimeter player rising to the top. You can only play one center at a time whereas any other spot you can stack talent.

And the fact that the Wolves hold it hurts because they can't play Wiseman/Towns together long-term. Mind you if he's the best prospect in their opinion and no team wants to give enough value to come up then you draft him and figure it out down the road, but they'd really have to like one of the wings to move to the top.


If he’s clearly #1, don’t you take him and admit this Western Conference doesn’t have any avenue to compete for Minnesota and trade Towns as the prime asset on the trade and free agency market?


I'm open to trading Towns regardless if the deal is right, but I wouldn't feel any urgency to deal him just by drafting Wiseman who could bust. I just remember that Towns and Butler and very little else was a playoff team in the West just 2 years ago. I'm not sold 100% on Towns as a franchise player, but he's so talented offensively that the if the Wolves put some smarter pieces around him that they could still win with him,


I agree, you don’t trade KAT to make room for Wiseman, but I’m less optimistic on Minnesota leaving the first round by the time KAT enters free agency. You could build around Wiseman plus a massive rebuilding return from a Towns trade as opposed to having a first round playoff ceiling IMO.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#146 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:45 pm

How close is Wright plus 31 for Snell?
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#147 » by drosestruts » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:08 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:How close is Wright plus 31 for Snell?


I feel Detroit would have to accept that just for 31. To me Wright's just the salary filler (not that he's nothing more than salary filler but the real get here for Detroit is the pick)
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#148 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:14 pm

drosestruts wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:How close is Wright plus 31 for Snell?


I feel Detroit would have to accept that just for 31. To me Wright's just the salary filler (not that he's nothing more than salary filler but the real get here for Detroit is the pick)


yeah obviously the incentive for Detroit is getting the pick for taking on the extra year of Wright with the small bonus of extra cap space to sell this year and the fact that Wright isn't total dead weight.

Dallas is trying to clear Wright's last year while still getting a player who can handle some rotation minutes.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#149 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:21 pm

yeah obviously the incentive for Detroit is getting the pick for taking on the extra year of Wright with the small bonus of extra cap space to sell this year and the fact that Wright isn't total dead weight.

Dallas is trying to clear Wright's last year while still getting a player who can handle some rotation minutes.


Another selling point for Detroit is that, with their dearth of not just talent but warm bodies they could give Wright a pretty decent usage share and drive up his value to flip him again at the deadline IMO.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#150 » by babyjax13 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:24 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
yeah obviously the incentive for Detroit is getting the pick for taking on the extra year of Wright with the small bonus of extra cap space to sell this year and the fact that Wright isn't total dead weight.

Dallas is trying to clear Wright's last year while still getting a player who can handle some rotation minutes.


Another selling point for Detroit is that, with their dearth of not just talent but warm bodies they could give Wright a pretty decent usage share and drive up his value to flip him again at the deadline IMO.


And they desperately need a competent fill in at point guard. Wright is just as warm a body as Reggie Jackson, so I think he'd be a fine addition for them.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#151 » by NYG » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:19 am

A.) Can we sticky this?
B.) Random observation, but in the new lottery format having the 1st, 7th and 8th odds seems like a sweet spot as both years the new format has occurred, those 3 odds ended up in the top four both times.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#152 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:50 am

NYG wrote:A.) Can we sticky this?


:nod:
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#153 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:08 pm

I think they should cancel the draft because apparently there are zero players to be found anywhere it.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#154 » by NYG » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:36 pm

Would the Warriors need to give anything of value in a Fournier into Iggy TPE trade?
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#155 » by NYG » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:38 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I think they should cancel the draft because apparently there are zero players to be found anywhere it.


Yeah this draft being “weak” really comes from not seeing a lot of the top talent in the NCAA and no tournament as a hype machine. It’s gotten to the point so far on the weak draft argument that I argue this is the most UNDERRATED draft we’ve had in a long time.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#156 » by NYG » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:29 am

gswhoops wrote:
KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:All Westbrook trades should be DOA imo. Nobody wants to offer anything, they just want a top 10-15 player in the league for cap space. Houston didn't make that trade a year ago just to throw him away, along with any chance at getting Harden a title, a year later.

I'll see your take and raise you; 80% of trades here where the rationale for the other team is "saving money" are just excuses to add talent to your team for below market rate.


That's not totally false, but I think the opposite is true. If an owner is trying to save money then cap space carries more value than this board/fans in general perceives it to be, but it used more often than not to steal value in trade ideas.

Which teams are in need of savings most likely this off-season, either because of the following reasons...

1. They've painted themselves into a bad corner for a team that either currently or soon-to-be via extensions is going to cost a ton without a realistic shot at a championship.

2. Are into or after extensions/re-signings/draft picks will be into the luxury tax.

3. Are either historically frugal owners that could use the landscape as an excuse or actually took a really bad hit in the current market.

A team has to meet at least one of those criteria to make deals that you can suck value from salary cap savings.

A few I see...

Boston - Luxury Tax/Not Enough Roster Spots for all of their picks any way

Houston - Took a very known beating financially

Orlando - If they want to keep Fultz and Isaac, it's time to start analyzing their long-term cap projections versus how competitive this roster can be

Philadelphia - This is the prime example of reason #1 above

Sacramento - After re-signing Bogdanovic, they start becoming an expensive team
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#157 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:34 pm

Couldn't sleep last night so listened to Lowe Post with Simmons last night. Lowe is so great, Simmons so bad. Some interesting nuggets:

Death Lineup's rumor about Dipo and the Bucks seems to have even more traction. I poo-pooed it but I shouldn't have it.
Aaron Gordon's value really down across the league.
Lots of teams sniffing around Orlando for their vets
GSW has unreasonable expectations regarding the #2 -- so Warriors fans here right in line with the thinking of the team.
Lowe hearing the same things we think -- if Giannis leaves, its Miami, Toronto, Dallas, with the league scared to death its Dallas.
Bledsoe is almost certainly gone.
Gobert stuff was less clear but some thoughts he could be traded.
Phoenix as a Paul location -- for the package we bandied about
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#158 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:13 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Couldn't sleep last night so listened to Lowe Post with Simmons last night. Lowe is so great, Simmons so bad. Some interesting nuggets:

Death Lineup's rumor about Dipo and the Bucks seems to have even more traction. I poo-pooed it but I shouldn't have it.
Aaron Gordon's value really down across the league.
Lots of teams sniffing around Orlando for their vets
GSW has unreasonable expectations regarding the #2 -- so Warriors fans here right in line with the thinking of the team.
Lowe hearing the same things we think -- if Giannis leaves, its Miami, Toronto, Dallas, with the league scared to death its Dallas.
Bledsoe is almost certainly gone.
Gobert stuff was less clear but some thoughts he could be traded.
Phoenix as a Paul location -- for the package we bandied about


Did Lowe sound sick (head cold or something) through that podcast? But yeah, Simmons was TERRIBLE. Smart and 14 for the 2, but he also suggests Aaron Gordon straight up for the 2? Wut?
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#159 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:14 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Couldn't sleep last night so listened to Lowe Post with Simmons last night. Lowe is so great, Simmons so bad. Some interesting nuggets:

Death Lineup's rumor about Dipo and the Bucks seems to have even more traction. I poo-pooed it but I shouldn't have it.
Aaron Gordon's value really down across the league.
Lots of teams sniffing around Orlando for their vets
GSW has unreasonable expectations regarding the #2 -- so Warriors fans here right in line with the thinking of the team.
Lowe hearing the same things we think -- if Giannis leaves, its Miami, Toronto, Dallas, with the league scared to death its Dallas.
Bledsoe is almost certainly gone.
Gobert stuff was less clear but some thoughts he could be traded.
Phoenix as a Paul location -- for the package we bandied about


Did Lowe sound sick (head cold or something) through that podcast? But yeah, Simmons was TERRIBLE. Smart and 14 for the 2, but he also suggests Aaron Gordon straight up for the 2? Wut?



The Drummond trade was awful, some of his Blake Griffin stuff was wild....
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#160 » by dalton749 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:32 am

Anyone else feel like fans of tanking teams are insufferable here? They’re all too good to bring in talent If they don’t have a perfect contract because giving up cap space is a sin. Like they have a chance at signing any legit talent anyway and won’t overpay some mediocre role players with that money at the end of the day.

Making the playoffs is a good thing, not every deal has to be championship or bust and not every draft pick needs to be top 5 if you aren’t a contender.

These eastern bottom feeders year after year aren’t too good for the likes of derozan, Westbrook, horford etc and it’s hilarious that they act like absorbing some talent and being a respectable team isn’t worth their money when they have 5+ players on rookie scale contracts. They’d rather watch their picks flame out year after year.

The raptors won last year with 75 mil going to a big 3 of Lowry/gasol/ibaka. The heat went to the finals this year when their roster looked like a mess of overpays one year ago.

People need to get realistic.

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