Random Rumors and Trade Board General Thoughts Thread

[ThunderBolt]

I really think Presti is going to snatch away a good young player from a bad organization. The issue is we don’t know who the bad organizations are yet since most of them have new GMs. I just don’t want to post the trade because it will make the opposing team’s fans upset.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think this draft is going to end up being a lot better than this board thinks it is, both at the top and later in the first round. We lost the hype of the NCAA tourney, but there are still a lot of strong players coming out. And shrewd GMs will take advantage of lots of outside work watching film and scouting to find the guys whose stock hasn't risen because of the lack of national exposure.

I think it'll end up with no stars, but a TON of guys that have 7-12 year careers, although mostly guys that will bounce around the league, and not really be absolute key core guys.

[Buzzard]

Oh, I agree they're important to consider, but yeah, like you said, those windows often close fast, and a lot of fans think my core of 4 23 and under guys will definitely all be playing together at their athletic peaks of 27, and THEN we strike. I saw it first hand with my Blazers many years ago, when fans refused every trade presented because Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Outlaw, Webster, Frye, Sergio, Rudy, Bayless, etc. were all gonna age together and dominate!

Portland a great example. An even better one is OKC where Presti acted like fans here and kept failing to add veteran talent to KD/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka and remember he had all kinds of extra draft picks too. They made one Finals trip having 3 future MVP's all 22 or younger.....

Dallas did that with Curry and THJ. I think the Hawks are looking at the vet options this year. Neither team is finished but because of Cuban being smart about needing and recognizing solid vets, they are ahead of the curve.

[Texas Chuck]

Oh, I agree they're important to consider, but yeah, like you said, those windows often close fast, and a lot of fans think my core of 4 23 and under guys will definitely all be playing together at their athletic peaks of 27, and THEN we strike. I saw it first hand with my Blazers many years ago, when fans refused every trade presented because Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Outlaw, Webster, Frye, Sergio, Rudy, Bayless, etc. were all gonna age together and dominate!

Portland a great example. An even better one is OKC where Presti acted like fans here and kept failing to add veteran talent to KD/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka and remember he had all kinds of extra draft picks too. They made one Finals trip having 3 future MVP's all 22 or younger.....

Dallas did that with Curry and THJ. I think the Hawks are looking at the vet options this year. Neither team is finished but because of Cuban being smart about needing and recognizing solid vets, they are ahead of the curve.

I'd love to give Cuban credit for being ahead of the curve, but THJ was part of the price to get KP---nobody expected this shooting season out of him. And Curry was a backup plan when Kemba chose Boston.

But agree that much of why Dallas seems further along than Atlanta is they had veterans around Luka and the Hawks had kids and Vince Carter's retirement tour. Atlanta should close much of that gap this off-season with all the resources they have.

[Buzzard]

Portland a great example. An even better one is OKC where Presti acted like fans here and kept failing to add veteran talent to KD/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka and remember he had all kinds of extra draft picks too. They made one Finals trip having 3 future MVP's all 22 or younger.....

Dallas did that with Curry and THJ. I think the Hawks are looking at the vet options this year. Neither team is finished but because of Cuban being smart about needing and recognizing solid vets, they are ahead of the curve.

I'd love to give Cuban credit for being ahead of the curve, but THJ was part of the price to get KP---nobody expected this shooting season out of him. And Curry was a backup plan when Kemba chose Boston.

But agree that much of why Dallas seems further along than Atlanta is they had veterans around Luka and the Hawks had kids and Vince Carter's retirement tour. Atlanta should close much of that gap this off-season with all the resources they have.

Schlenks comments about age do worry me. If they strikeout on Bertans, I would love to see Serge as a plan B.

[pacers33granger]

I have a feeling a lot of guys will be "overdrafted" and a few higher profile guys will slip. This draft was already more of a crapshoot than before, but now it seems like teams may just pick their guy rather than trying to trade down. I also don't think we'll see many teams interested in trading up unless it's at a minor cost.

[Buzzard]

I have a feeling a lot of guys will be "overdrafted" and a few higher profile guys will slip. This draft was already more of a crapshoot than before, but now it seems like teams may just pick their guy rather than trying to trade down. I also don't think we'll see many teams interested in trading up unless it's at a minor cost.

I think there are 10 players who are locks to go in the top 14.

Avdija, Ball, Edwards, Haliburton, Killian, Okongwu, Okoro, Toppin, Vassell, Wiseman

The reason I see this draft as top heavy is because other than those 10, the rest of the draft and where players go is anyone's guess in my opinion. The remaining point guards are great examples. Depending on what mock you look at they are seen all over the map. Anthony 9th to 20th. Lewis is pegged to go 10th to 26th. Maledon 14th and as low as 28th.

The discrepancy in the middle and bottom of this draft is huge. If your team does not have a great scouting department, I would not want to be picking outside of those 10 players I listed.

[Ducklett]

Do people actually want the players they post low ball offers for? Some of the trades around here are insane and I think the worst offenders are people trying to get guys like Ben Simmons or Brad Beal. It is kind of wild to me.

[Buzzard]

Do people actually want the players they post low ball offers for? Some of the trades around here are insane and I think the worst offenders are people trying to get guys like Ben Simmons or Brad Beal. It is kind of wild to me.

For me its perceived value to the Hawks. Simmons is a great example. He brings top 10 level defense but as we all know, his offense can be detrimental. Beal is another great example. Trae and Beal would be a top 2 or 3 offensive guard duo in the league. But then there is that defense. Now add in the contracts and that has to be examined.

I am not willing to sell the farm for either. I think Collins provides plenty of offensive talent for a 2nd or 3rd wheel. Capela is a solid defender. In other words, I would not mind having either player but would much prefer holding on to Trae, Collins, Capela at least for a season or two before deciding the farm needed to be sold.

[dalton749]

Random thought unrelated to specific players, but more on fans and rebuilding, I really dislike the discussions around a team's window and timelines, and how there is often this expectation that a team should be built entirely of guys the same age. How their timeline is usually at least one year away.

I think windows and timelines are important to discuss. But windows are almost always much shorter than fanbases believe. If you can be a legit championship-level team right now, you should always maximize that.

Agree 200% that its stupid to say this 28 year old really good player who fits exactly what my team needs isn't someone my team wants because my core's average age is 22.5.

Oh, I agree they're important to consider, but yeah, like you said, those windows often close fast, and a lot of fans think my core of 4 23 and under guys will definitely all be playing together at their athletic peaks of 27, and THEN we strike. I saw it first hand with my Blazers many years ago, when fans refused every trade presented because Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Outlaw, Webster, Frye, Sergio, Rudy, Bayless, etc. were all gonna age together and dominate!

This thinking from the fans of teams that have been in the lottery for multiple years drives me insane. 90% of teams that try to build with a bunch of young guys fail and then start the cycle over. Just get some talent in the door no matter the age, put a competent team around one or two of your up and coming players and try to make the playoffs.

They’re much closer to finding a path to a championship there instead of just waiting for a home run. Look at Toronto and Miami’s paths to the finals as an example, nobody thought they were doing anything until they did.

Teams like New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit etc should be looking very hard at the getable vets out there. Derozan, oladipo, Paul, Aldridge, Griffin, love, Drummond and so on. None are perfect players, but all can contribute to a playoff team and bring some respectability to a bottom feeding franchise while helping provide a better environment for the young players to develop.

[Ducklett]

Do people actually want the players they post low ball offers for? Some of the trades around here are insane and I think the worst offenders are people trying to get guys like Ben Simmons or Brad Beal. It is kind of wild to me.

For me its perceived value to the Hawks. Simmons is a great example. He brings top 10 level defense but as we all know, his offense can be detrimental. Beal is another great example. Trae and Beal would be a top 2 or 3 offensive guard duo in the league. But then there is that defense. Now add in the contracts and that has to be examined.

I am not willing to sell the farm for either. I think Collins provides plenty of offensive talent for a 2nd or 3rd wheel. Capela is a solid defender. In other words, I would not mind having either player but would much prefer holding on to Trae, Collins, Capela at least for a season or two before deciding the farm needed to be sold.

But you make points that could be understood, even if people disagree with you. There is a difference between having a discussion on someone's worth or value to each team and posting Beal for #2 who says no type stuff (I don't think anyone made this exact bad trade, just an example) and then use post after post talking about the negatives and inadequacies while ignoring the strong parts of Beal to make it sound like getting #2 is highway robbery for the Wizards.

[cucad8]

This thinking from the fans of teams that have been in the lottery for multiple years drives me insane. 90% of teams that try to build with a bunch of young guys fail and then start the cycle over. Just get some talent in the door no matter the age, put a competent team around one or two of your up and coming players and try to make the playoffs.

They’re much closer to finding a path to a championship there instead of just waiting for a home run. Look at Toronto and Miami’s paths to the finals as an example, nobody thought they were doing anything until they did.

Teams like New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit etc should be looking very hard at the getable vets out there. Derozan, oladipo, Paul, Aldridge, Griffin, love, Drummond and so on. None are perfect players, but all can contribute to a playoff team and bring some respectability to a bottom feeding franchise while helping provide a better environment for the young players to develop.

I also think, unless it's an old vet on your own team, so many fans ignore the huge benefit that solid veterans on a young team can play, if those vets are willing. Everyone in a rebuild wants to sell off anyone 28 and older. But then you get a PG who doesn't learn great PnR mechanics, because he has a young big that doesn't set good screens. Or a young big that sets great screens, but doesn't learn the roll or the pop, because he has a young PG who doesn't know how to properly utilize screens, or throw lobs, entry passes, etc.

I think of the role Chris Paul played for OKC this year, and I think the knowledge he imparted, and the competitive, playoff games, competing games that he helped them get to are invaluable for younger guys, versus trotting out a youth squad and learning through losing.

[NYG]

I think we will see teams mostly run it back with some of the Western Conference teams (Thunder, Kings, Spurs, etc.) trading their vets for picks, but no blockbuster trades, draft picks or free agent signings in 2020, but things will get wild before the deadline and even crazier on the night of the 2021 NBA Draft because a lot of teams will know what they are by then.

[dalton749]

This thinking from the fans of teams that have been in the lottery for multiple years drives me insane. 90% of teams that try to build with a bunch of young guys fail and then start the cycle over. Just get some talent in the door no matter the age, put a competent team around one or two of your up and coming players and try to make the playoffs.

They’re much closer to finding a path to a championship there instead of just waiting for a home run. Look at Toronto and Miami’s paths to the finals as an example, nobody thought they were doing anything until they did.

Teams like New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit etc should be looking very hard at the getable vets out there. Derozan, oladipo, Paul, Aldridge, Griffin, love, Drummond and so on. None are perfect players, but all can contribute to a playoff team and bring some respectability to a bottom feeding franchise while helping provide a better environment for the young players to develop.

I also think, unless it's an old vet on your own team, so many fans ignore the huge benefit that solid veterans on a young team can play, if those vets are willing. Everyone in a rebuild wants to sell off anyone 28 and older. But then you get a PG who doesn't learn great PnR mechanics, because he has a young big that doesn't set good screens. Or a young big that sets great screens, but doesn't learn the roll or the pop, because he has a young PG who doesn't know how to properly utilize screens, or throw lobs, entry passes, etc.

I think of the role Chris Paul played for OKC this year, and I think the knowledge he imparted, and the competitive, playoff games, competing games that he helped them get to are invaluable for younger guys, versus trotting out a youth squad and learning through losing.

Exactly. Having that stabilizing veteran on the floor is the key to developing young talent. You don’t have that and your top picks will bust or not max out their potential over and over again unless they are a generational talent.

To me, a team like Atlanta should be going after one of those guys hard not trying to develop 6 young guys at one time. Trae is ready for the playoffs, give him a running mate like derozan for example and they’re in the mix next year while also giving reddish a really good environment to grow.

I use derozan as an example because he can probably be had for peanuts but people act like their lottery teams are too good for him because he isn’t a shooter or great defender. They fail to realize the stability that he brings by giving you a guaranteed 20 points every night while getting to the line a lot and being able to bail you out when the clock runs down. He’s been to a conference finals and has been at the Center of a top 10 offense for like a decade but “I would take him as a 6th man” is all people here can come up with.

[NYG]

This thinking from the fans of teams that have been in the lottery for multiple years drives me insane. 90% of teams that try to build with a bunch of young guys fail and then start the cycle over. Just get some talent in the door no matter the age, put a competent team around one or two of your up and coming players and try to make the playoffs.

They’re much closer to finding a path to a championship there instead of just waiting for a home run. Look at Toronto and Miami’s paths to the finals as an example, nobody thought they were doing anything until they did.

Teams like New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit etc should be looking very hard at the getable vets out there. Derozan, oladipo, Paul, Aldridge, Griffin, love, Drummond and so on. None are perfect players, but all can contribute to a playoff team and bring some respectability to a bottom feeding franchise while helping provide a better environment for the young players to develop.

I also think, unless it's an old vet on your own team, so many fans ignore the huge benefit that solid veterans on a young team can play, if those vets are willing. Everyone in a rebuild wants to sell off anyone 28 and older. But then you get a PG who doesn't learn great PnR mechanics, because he has a young big that doesn't set good screens. Or a young big that sets great screens, but doesn't learn the roll or the pop, because he has a young PG who doesn't know how to properly utilize screens, or throw lobs, entry passes, etc.

I think of the role Chris Paul played for OKC this year, and I think the knowledge he imparted, and the competitive, playoff games, competing games that he helped them get to are invaluable for younger guys, versus trotting out a youth squad and learning through losing.

Exactly. Having that stabilizing veteran on the floor is the key to developing young talent. You don’t have that and your top picks will bust or not max out their potential over and over again unless they are a generational talent.

To me, a team like Atlanta should be going after one of those guys hard not trying to develop 6 young guys at one time. Trae is ready for the playoffs, give him a running mate like derozan for example and they’re in the mix next year while also giving reddish a really good environment to grow.

I use derozan as an example because he can probably be had for peanuts but people act like their lottery teams are too good for him because he isn’t a shooter or great defender. They fail to realize the stability that he brings by giving you a guaranteed 20 points every night while getting to the line a lot and being able to bail you out when the clock runs down. He’s been to a conference finals and has been at the Center of a top 10 offense for like a decade but “I would take him as a 6th man” is all people here can come up with.

I agree with a lot of the things being said here. It's why Chris Paul to NY has grown on me. Nothing with that cap space or the relatively minor asset used to get him could provide the leadership, mentorship, culture shaping, tricks of the trade and ability to run a proper offense and find the young guys is the best spots for their development that Chris Paul does. If he likes it there, that's huge credibility in the league for future free agents, but you're actually sticking to the rebuilding path by getting Paul in my opinion. You don't necessarily need the first overall pick, if the Knicks sneak into the 8th seed in the East with Paul then isn't that playoff experience valuable to the young guys? Can't your scouting find a good player in the draft still?

Franchises like Miami are always looking to do what it takes to win and a bunch of the time they have as a result.

[Buzzard]

Do people actually want the players they post low ball offers for? Some of the trades around here are insane and I think the worst offenders are people trying to get guys like Ben Simmons or Brad Beal. It is kind of wild to me.

For me its perceived value to the Hawks. Simmons is a great example. He brings top 10 level defense but as we all know, his offense can be detrimental. Beal is another great example. Trae and Beal would be a top 2 or 3 offensive guard duo in the league. But then there is that defense. Now add in the contracts and that has to be examined.

I am not willing to sell the farm for either. I think Collins provides plenty of offensive talent for a 2nd or 3rd wheel. Capela is a solid defender. In other words, I would not mind having either player but would much prefer holding on to Trae, Collins, Capela at least for a season or two before deciding the farm needed to be sold.

But you make points that could be understood, even if people disagree with you. There is a difference between having a discussion on someone's worth or value to each team and posting Beal for #2 who says no type stuff (I don't think anyone made this exact bad trade, just an example) and then use post after post talking about the negatives and inadequacies while ignoring the strong parts of Beal to make it sound like getting #2 is highway robbery for the Wizards.

I think what you are talking about is how some bash a top players game to make his worth look less. I have been accused of that with Smart. But I don't see him as a top 30 type player and I think some Celtics and other fans do. I never knock his defense, just his overall offense is lacking in my opinion.

Simmons and Beal on the other hand, I will knock one phase or the other of each of their games; but I still see them as top 20 players. Simmons can't shoot but he still gets 16 efficient points and 8 assist a game. That is offense even if its not shooting threes. Beal is just like Trae in my mind with his scoring and defense. They cannot guard a fly but can put up 30 anytime they want.

[dalton749]

I also think, unless it's an old vet on your own team, so many fans ignore the huge benefit that solid veterans on a young team can play, if those vets are willing. Everyone in a rebuild wants to sell off anyone 28 and older. But then you get a PG who doesn't learn great PnR mechanics, because he has a young big that doesn't set good screens. Or a young big that sets great screens, but doesn't learn the roll or the pop, because he has a young PG who doesn't know how to properly utilize screens, or throw lobs, entry passes, etc.

I think of the role Chris Paul played for OKC this year, and I think the knowledge he imparted, and the competitive, playoff games, competing games that he helped them get to are invaluable for younger guys, versus trotting out a youth squad and learning through losing.

Exactly. Having that stabilizing veteran on the floor is the key to developing young talent. You don’t have that and your top picks will bust or not max out their potential over and over again unless they are a generational talent.

To me, a team like Atlanta should be going after one of those guys hard not trying to develop 6 young guys at one time. Trae is ready for the playoffs, give him a running mate like derozan for example and they’re in the mix next year while also giving reddish a really good environment to grow.

I use derozan as an example because he can probably be had for peanuts but people act like their lottery teams are too good for him because he isn’t a shooter or great defender. They fail to realize the stability that he brings by giving you a guaranteed 20 points every night while getting to the line a lot and being able to bail you out when the clock runs down. He’s been to a conference finals and has been at the Center of a top 10 offense for like a decade but “I would take him as a 6th man” is all people here can come up with.

I agree with a lot of the things being said here. It's why Chris Paul to NY has grown on me. Nothing with that cap space or the relatively minor asset used to get him could provide the leadership, mentorship, culture shaping, tricks of the trade and ability to run a proper offense and find the young guys is the best spots for their development that Chris Paul does. If he likes it there, that's huge credibility in the league for future free agents, but you're actually sticking to the rebuilding path by getting Paul in my opinion. You don't necessarily need the first overall pick, if the Knicks sneak into the 8th seed in the East with Paul then isn't that playoff experience valuable to the young guys? Can't your scouting find a good player in the draft still?

Franchises like Miami are always looking to do what it takes to win and a bunch of the time they have as a result.

I fully agree with the chris Paul to the Knicks storyline as well. Ideally they bring in another good vet as well and make a push for the playoffs. Maybe galo, love or whoever just give RJ and MRob a chance to play winning basketball next year and gain some respect around the league so that people may consider it a destination in the future.

[shrink]

I’ve given up making any trade where a team gets cash as compensation. Regardless of how realistic I think it is, or how many times we see it in real life, there will always be posters that don’t care about cash or realism, and demand a second rounder.

[Buzzard]

Exactly. Having that stabilizing veteran on the floor is the key to developing young talent. You don’t have that and your top picks will bust or not max out their potential over and over again unless they are a generational talent.

To me, a team like Atlanta should be going after one of those guys hard not trying to develop 6 young guys at one time. Trae is ready for the playoffs, give him a running mate like derozan for example and they’re in the mix next year while also giving reddish a really good environment to grow.

I use derozan as an example because he can probably be had for peanuts but people act like their lottery teams are too good for him because he isn’t a shooter or great defender. They fail to realize the stability that he brings by giving you a guaranteed 20 points every night while getting to the line a lot and being able to bail you out when the clock runs down. He’s been to a conference finals and has been at the Center of a top 10 offense for like a decade but “I would take him as a 6th man” is all people here can come up with.

I agree with a lot of the things being said here. It's why Chris Paul to NY has grown on me. Nothing with that cap space or the relatively minor asset used to get him could provide the leadership, mentorship, culture shaping, tricks of the trade and ability to run a proper offense and find the young guys is the best spots for their development that Chris Paul does. If he likes it there, that's huge credibility in the league for future free agents, but you're actually sticking to the rebuilding path by getting Paul in my opinion. You don't necessarily need the first overall pick, if the Knicks sneak into the 8th seed in the East with Paul then isn't that playoff experience valuable to the young guys? Can't your scouting find a good player in the draft still?

Franchises like Miami are always looking to do what it takes to win and a bunch of the time they have as a result.

I fully agree with the chris Paul to the Knicks storyline as well. Ideally they bring in another good vet as well and make a push for the playoffs. Maybe galo, love or whoever just give RJ and MRob a chance to play winning basketball next year and gain some respect around the league so that people may consider it a destination in the future.

I think this is the hope by most Hawks fans as well. Add some vets to the team and start winning more than 20 - 30 games a season. Its time. Three straight seasons with good odds in the lottery should be enough.

[Scoot McGroot]

I’ve given up making any trade where a team gets cash as compensation. Regardless of how realistic I think it is, or how many times we see it in real life, there will always be posters that don’t care about cash or realism, and demand a second rounder.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Indy trades off their 2nd (52) this year for either cash or a future 2nd.