Trade Board General Thoughts Thread

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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#61 » by Buzzard » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:26 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
shrink wrote:I’ve given up making any trade where a team gets cash as compensation. Regardless of how realistic I think it is, or how many times we see it in real life, there will always be posters that don’t care about cash or realism, and demand a second rounder.


I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Indy trades off their 2nd (52) this year for either cash or a future 2nd. :dontknow:

I really don't want the Hawks to make their pick at 50 either; unless its a stash overseas.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#62 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:30 am

Buzzard wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
shrink wrote:I’ve given up making any trade where a team gets cash as compensation. Regardless of how realistic I think it is, or how many times we see it in real life, there will always be posters that don’t care about cash or realism, and demand a second rounder.


I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Indy trades off their 2nd (52) this year for either cash or a future 2nd. :dontknow:

I really don't want the Hawks to make their pick at 50 either; unless its a stash overseas.


Yeah. We also have 12 guaranteed contracts for next season, would like to keep Justin Holiday, and both Jakarr Sampson and Alize are possibilities to come back. I bet we move a guy or two, like a TJ Leaf, but there's not a lot of roster space, and we may just keep pushing off the 2nds into the future, like we did with the 31 we got last year for taking TJ Warren.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#63 » by NYG » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:46 am

I guess I can use this thread for a lot of my random takes...

I think after the pre-draft process has completely runs it's course then some team will offer something more valuable than we expect for the first and/or second overall picks.

I think Kyrie/KD is New York's new 'Melo/Amare meaning Kyrie and 'Melo have similar flaws on and off the court and unfortunately I think Durant's health keeping him off the court more frequently.

I think in the end Giannis ends up leaving Milwaukee. I'm not trolling because believe me I would love a star to stay in a small market and build the team around him, but I just see him ending up deciding to leave. My early pick is Dallas because by the 2021 off-season, pairing with Luka and KP should look lethal.

I think over the next two years, we will see Joel Embiid ask out of Philly. I think he is getting frustrated by things like seeing Jimmy Butler in the NBA Finals and how much combined salary is going towards Horford and Harris.

I think guys like Blake Griffin are more tradable than the board likes to think, but the value is pretty much neutral.

I think we will see a lot of financial based moves creating value for teams with cap space, but hurt the free agent market both in terms of spending and available spending. Most of the teams with cap space prefer taking on a bad deal plus asset over paying Harrell/Harris/VanVleet.

I think the Raptors will let VanVleet leave this off-season to maintain flexibility, but it will be in a sign trade where they get something useful back that doesn't tie up their long-term cap.

I think Orlando finally picks a direction and goes full rebuild.

I think the Spurs start retooling around a younger core yet still compete for a playoff spot in 2020-21.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#64 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:51 am

shrink wrote:I’ve given up making any trade where a team gets cash as compensation. Regardless of how realistic I think it is, or how many times we see it in real life, there will always be posters that don’t care about cash or realism, and demand a second rounder.



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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#65 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:53 am

NYG wrote:I guess I can use this thread for a lot of my random takes...

.



Yeah that was kinda my hope for the thread. We all have various thoughts on things that we might want to share/run by this community. Be nice to have a place for that when its not really thread-worthy.

Also if you can will Giannis to Dallas please do so. :wink:
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#66 » by BK_2020 » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:54 am

The NBA should abolish the 2nd round of the draft.
Give the worst 4 teams picks 31 to 34.
Everyone else UDFA.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#67 » by NYG » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:55 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
NYG wrote:I guess I can use this thread for a lot of my random takes...

.



Yeah that was kinda my hope for the thread. We all have various thoughts on things that we might want to share/run by this community. Be nice to have a place for that when its not really thread-worthy.

Also if you can will Giannis to Dallas please do so. :wink:


I just don't see who is beating that team and I think winning is Giannis' biggest concern. I'm honestly rooting for Milwaukee to get creative and pull it off. There would be something old school about Giannis turning it around with Milwaukee and becoming a championship level team every year with them.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#68 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:58 am

BK_2020 wrote:The NBA should abolish the 2nd round of the draft.
Give the worst 4 teams picks 31 to 34.
Everyone else UDFA.


In principle I get where you are coming from. However those 2nd round picks facilitate a lot of trades. Not sure we want to further inhibit teams' abilities to improve their roster.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#69 » by NYG » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:04 am

Oh, one more thing. I think the NBA should eliminate MAX salaries. I know this will lead to good players getting a bigger piece of the pie, but my argument would then be "you oughta become a good player then, right?"

Not only is basketball a rare sport where stars do make a significantly bigger impact than role players (meaning they should be compensated as such), but more so I think this eliminates super teams because there will still be a salary cap, just not a MAX salary.

So if I can get 75% of my teams cap to return or have to share that with two other stars, guess what I'm choosing?

It puts an onus on the owners as well to get smart about where they spend money. I think all of it's flaws and counterpoints just go back to you need to do a better job and none of this should be an issue. The most difficult thing here is it punishes you for drafting well as you can't keep every one, but that just means you have to make smart choices and then spread the talent around the league in trades that make the cap logistics work.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#70 » by shrink » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:42 am

Buzzard wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
shrink wrote:I’ve given up making any trade where a team gets cash as compensation. Regardless of how realistic I think it is, or how many times we see it in real life, there will always be posters that don’t care about cash or realism, and demand a second rounder.


I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Indy trades off their 2nd (52) this year for either cash or a future 2nd. :dontknow:

I really don't want the Hawks to make their pick at 50 either; unless its a stash overseas.

I’m not saying that they aren’t realistic. I am saying they are poorly received.

Try making a trade where you give a team $3.5 mil in cash to eat a $1.5 mil salary.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#71 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:44 am

shrink wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Indy trades off their 2nd (52) this year for either cash or a future 2nd. :dontknow:

I really don't want the Hawks to make their pick at 50 either; unless its a stash overseas.

I’m not saying that they aren’t realistic. I am saying they are poorly received.

Try making a trade where you give a team $3.5 mil in cash to eat a $1.5 mil salary.


It's truly a niche. Helps some of us separate the board at a glance, if you know what I mean... :wink:
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#72 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:50 am

shrink wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Indy trades off their 2nd (52) this year for either cash or a future 2nd. :dontknow:

I really don't want the Hawks to make their pick at 50 either; unless its a stash overseas.

I’m not saying that they aren’t realistic. I am saying they are poorly received.

Try making a trade where you give a team $3.5 mil in cash to eat a $1.5 mil salary.



Look a certain percentage of fans are never going to appreciate that cash has tangible value in these deals. Just like you have some posters (Venn diagrams overlap a lot btw) who think high 2nds are worth more than late 1sts. When you propose deals where that's the value you just have to ignore those posters on those topics.

You can't make them see the truth if they don't want to see it. We see this in all areas of life right now. We all have blind spots---I'm biased against Aaron Gordon for instance. :wink:
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#73 » by Resistance » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:54 am

NYG wrote:Oh, one more thing. I think the NBA should eliminate MAX salaries. I know this will lead to good players getting a bigger piece of the pie, but my argument would then be "you oughta become a good player then, right?"

Not only is basketball a rare sport where stars do make a significantly bigger impact than role players (meaning they should be compensated as such), but more so I think this eliminates super teams because there will still be a salary cap, just not a MAX salary.

So if I can get 75% of my teams cap to return or have to share that with two other stars, guess what I'm choosing?

It puts an onus on the owners as well to get smart about where they spend money. I think all of it's flaws and counterpoints just go back to you need to do a better job and none of this should be an issue. The most difficult thing here is it punishes you for drafting well as you can't keep every one, but that just means you have to make smart choices and then spread the talent around the league in trades that make the cap logistics work.




I have the NBPA rather than the NBA that has the final word on whether Max salaries are eliminated.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#74 » by djFan71 » Wed Oct 7, 2020 6:46 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:The NBA should abolish the 2nd round of the draft.
Give the worst 4 teams picks 31 to 34.
Everyone else UDFA.


In principle I get where you are coming from. However those 2nd round picks facilitate a lot of trades. Not sure we want to further inhibit teams' abilities to improve their roster.

Tangentially related, trades would be a lot easier if you got rid of all the restrictions on individual ones. Just keep the cap and tax and let teams deal til their hearts are content and pay at the end. Exceptions too. Sign who you want and pay at the end of the season.

I’m sure like lots of things there are reasons all those intricacies were added, but ultimately it really doesn’t seem to add much value beyond the cap and tax line. And really I’m not sure the cap matters at that point. Just tax.

EDIT: I do realize it is an additional disincentive for teams to not just pay like crazy and handicap them a little when they’re over the cap. But it may have swung too far in that direction and ends up hurting the ability of any team to make deals without an overwhelming amount of effort on rules and finance.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#75 » by FutureKnicksGM » Wed Oct 7, 2020 7:29 am

NYG wrote:
dalton749 wrote:
cucad8 wrote:

I also think, unless it's an old vet on your own team, so many fans ignore the huge benefit that solid veterans on a young team can play, if those vets are willing. Everyone in a rebuild wants to sell off anyone 28 and older. But then you get a PG who doesn't learn great PnR mechanics, because he has a young big that doesn't set good screens. Or a young big that sets great screens, but doesn't learn the roll or the pop, because he has a young PG who doesn't know how to properly utilize screens, or throw lobs, entry passes, etc.

I think of the role Chris Paul played for OKC this year, and I think the knowledge he imparted, and the competitive, playoff games, competing games that he helped them get to are invaluable for younger guys, versus trotting out a youth squad and learning through losing.


Exactly. Having that stabilizing veteran on the floor is the key to developing young talent. You don’t have that and your top picks will bust or not max out their potential over and over again unless they are a generational talent.

To me, a team like Atlanta should be going after one of those guys hard not trying to develop 6 young guys at one time. Trae is ready for the playoffs, give him a running mate like derozan for example and they’re in the mix next year while also giving reddish a really good environment to grow.

I use derozan as an example because he can probably be had for peanuts but people act like their lottery teams are too good for him because he isn’t a shooter or great defender. They fail to realize the stability that he brings by giving you a guaranteed 20 points every night while getting to the line a lot and being able to bail you out when the clock runs down. He’s been to a conference finals and has been at the Center of a top 10 offense for like a decade but “I would take him as a 6th man” is all people here can come up with.


I agree with a lot of the things being said here. It's why Chris Paul to NY has grown on me. Nothing with that cap space or the relatively minor asset used to get him could provide the leadership, mentorship, culture shaping, tricks of the trade and ability to run a proper offense and find the young guys is the best spots for their development that Chris Paul does. If he likes it there, that's huge credibility in the league for future free agents, but you're actually sticking to the rebuilding path by getting Paul in my opinion. You don't necessarily need the first overall pick, if the Knicks sneak into the 8th seed in the East with Paul then isn't that playoff experience valuable to the young guys? Can't your scouting find a good player in the draft still?

Franchises like Miami are always looking to do what it takes to win and a bunch of the time they have as a result.


I think that is absolutely the worst idea possible for the Knicks. A team like ATL is different because they have a young player in Trae worth building around, and are trending upward. Knicks are no were close to finding that player to ‘build around’.

I think the impact of CP3’s intangibles and development of others is overblown. OKC were good because their players played high level ball. That’s it. Not because CP3 developed them.

Can’t see a single free agent of note coming to NY for a 36 year old CP3 taking up $45 mill of the cap.

Imo the key to develop young players is to actually play them. They don’t need vets in the way of much needed development minutes.

Presti has been a masterclass in building up the Thunder, and is now starting another rebuild. There’s a reason CP3 won’t be in a Thunder uniform next season, despite the ‘credibility’ he would bring the Thunder.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#76 » by FutureKnicksGM » Wed Oct 7, 2020 7:36 am

Shouldn’t the max salary be 35% during a players prime years (7-9) then drop down following? In line with player performance. Has anyone who signed a 35% max been a good value deal (besides LeBron)? Most become instant albratrosses.

Should also make it harder to sign away free agents in the middle of their prime if an adjustment was made.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#77 » by Ruzious » Wed Oct 7, 2020 9:53 am

Just saw the RealGM piece saying the Knicks would probably have to include Knox in a Chris Paul trade... Do people think Knox has much trade value? I know he's still very young, but... he's not a good basketball player.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#78 » by babyjax13 » Wed Oct 7, 2020 10:02 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:All Westbrook trades should be DOA imo. Nobody wants to offer anything, they just want a top 10-15 player in the league for cap space. Houston didn't make that trade a year ago just to throw him away, along with any chance at getting Harden a title, a year later.



I love it. Counterpoint -- Houston was willing to move on from Chris Paul rather quickly. I think Houston is definitely open to moving him if they get win now pieces back and get some financial relief for their embattled owner. I don't think they just salary dump him though.

Also, is Westbrook still a top 15 player? I know he did make the 3rd team all-NBA which suggests he's in that mix, but I feel like I could name more than 15 guys I thought were better than him.


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I think a lot of talk about him historically has been pretty hyperbolic, but this past season was by far his worst since his rookie contract - despite the nice raw numbers. I think he's about a top 30 player, making top 10 player money. It's a bad contract, but maybe someone is willing to move it if they also have a bad contract (but it's hard to identify smaller, long-term but bad contracts)... IDK maybe Dallas decides to do something crazy and offer something like Powell+Wright+THJ. But I think most likely he can't be moved.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#79 » by babyjax13 » Wed Oct 7, 2020 10:03 am

Ruzious wrote:Just saw the RealGM piece saying the Knicks would probably have to include Knox in a Chris Paul trade... Do people think Knox has much trade value? I know he's still very young, but... he's not a good basketball player.


He JUST turned 21, wouldn't be surprised if his value is higher than we think.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#80 » by Ruzious » Wed Oct 7, 2020 10:13 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Just saw the RealGM piece saying the Knicks would probably have to include Knox in a Chris Paul trade... Do people think Knox has much trade value? I know he's still very young, but... he's not a good basketball player.


He JUST turned 21, wouldn't be surprised if his value is higher than we think.

I did say "I know he's still very young". Do you think he's going to develop into a good player before his rookie contract is over? I certainly wouldn't bet on it.
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