Trade Board General Thoughts Thread

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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#81 » by Mike lorenzo » Wed Oct 7, 2020 10:18 am

don't ask me why..just a hunch (I dreamed it) ..

K.Love. go to Knicks
Clarkson go to Hawks
Cousins ​​go to Wizards

great idea the OP ... congratulations Chuck, great fun to read
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#82 » by Buzzard » Wed Oct 7, 2020 12:53 pm

Mike lorenzo wrote:don't ask me why..just a hunch (I dreamed it) ..

K.Love. go to Knicks
Clarkson go to Hawks
Cousins ​​go to Wizards

great idea the OP ... congratulations Chuck, great fun to read

I think Clarkson is a dark horse for the Hawks in free agency. They need someone besides Trae who can get their own shot.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#83 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Oct 7, 2020 12:54 pm

Ruzious wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Just saw the RealGM piece saying the Knicks would probably have to include Knox in a Chris Paul trade... Do people think Knox has much trade value? I know he's still very young, but... he's not a good basketball player.


He JUST turned 21, wouldn't be surprised if his value is higher than we think.

I did say "I know he's still very young". Do you think he's going to develop into a good player before his rookie contract is over? I certainly wouldn't bet on it.


Tough question. I have the Knicks eventually picking up his 4th year option, but it not being an easy decision for them. Could see them drop it since it’s a new front office and they didn’t pick the kid.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#84 » by dalton749 » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:01 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:
NYG wrote:
dalton749 wrote:
Exactly. Having that stabilizing veteran on the floor is the key to developing young talent. You don’t have that and your top picks will bust or not max out their potential over and over again unless they are a generational talent.

To me, a team like Atlanta should be going after one of those guys hard not trying to develop 6 young guys at one time. Trae is ready for the playoffs, give him a running mate like derozan for example and they’re in the mix next year while also giving reddish a really good environment to grow.

I use derozan as an example because he can probably be had for peanuts but people act like their lottery teams are too good for him because he isn’t a shooter or great defender. They fail to realize the stability that he brings by giving you a guaranteed 20 points every night while getting to the line a lot and being able to bail you out when the clock runs down. He’s been to a conference finals and has been at the Center of a top 10 offense for like a decade but “I would take him as a 6th man” is all people here can come up with.


I agree with a lot of the things being said here. It's why Chris Paul to NY has grown on me. Nothing with that cap space or the relatively minor asset used to get him could provide the leadership, mentorship, culture shaping, tricks of the trade and ability to run a proper offense and find the young guys is the best spots for their development that Chris Paul does. If he likes it there, that's huge credibility in the league for future free agents, but you're actually sticking to the rebuilding path by getting Paul in my opinion. You don't necessarily need the first overall pick, if the Knicks sneak into the 8th seed in the East with Paul then isn't that playoff experience valuable to the young guys? Can't your scouting find a good player in the draft still?

Franchises like Miami are always looking to do what it takes to win and a bunch of the time they have as a result.


I think that is absolutely the worst idea possible for the Knicks. A team like ATL is different because they have a young player in Trae worth building around, and are trending upward. Knicks are no were close to finding that player to ‘build around’.

I think the impact of CP3’s intangibles and development of others is overblown. OKC were good because their players played high level ball. That’s it. Not because CP3 developed them.

Can’t see a single free agent of note coming to NY for a 36 year old CP3 taking up $45 mill of the cap.

Imo the key to develop young players is to actually play them. They don’t need vets in the way of much needed development minutes.

Presti has been a masterclass in building up the Thunder, and is now starting another rebuild. There’s a reason CP3 won’t be in a Thunder uniform next season, despite the ‘credibility’ he would bring the Thunder.


It’s not about a free agent coming while chris Paul is there, it’s about building up some respect around the league. Trying to be a team that actually wins games and isn’t a joke, not teaching young guys how to lose year in and out. RJ was in the worst
Possible situation to succeed last year, that’s inexcusable and you can’t keep making the same mistakes and expect something to change. I thought knox would have been a good player as well but look at him now.

Chris Paul can be had for nothing of note, I’d even try and get al horford or Kevin love who can be had for nothing despite his contract, and sign gallo by clearing out expiring contracts as well.

They then have a legitimate squad where guys can learn and not be asked to do too much. Confidence is everything. RJ, Robinson and 8th is a good enough start to that.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#85 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:08 pm

dalton749 wrote:
FutureKnicksGM wrote:
NYG wrote:
I agree with a lot of the things being said here. It's why Chris Paul to NY has grown on me. Nothing with that cap space or the relatively minor asset used to get him could provide the leadership, mentorship, culture shaping, tricks of the trade and ability to run a proper offense and find the young guys is the best spots for their development that Chris Paul does. If he likes it there, that's huge credibility in the league for future free agents, but you're actually sticking to the rebuilding path by getting Paul in my opinion. You don't necessarily need the first overall pick, if the Knicks sneak into the 8th seed in the East with Paul then isn't that playoff experience valuable to the young guys? Can't your scouting find a good player in the draft still?

Franchises like Miami are always looking to do what it takes to win and a bunch of the time they have as a result.


I think that is absolutely the worst idea possible for the Knicks. A team like ATL is different because they have a young player in Trae worth building around, and are trending upward. Knicks are no were close to finding that player to ‘build around’.

I think the impact of CP3’s intangibles and development of others is overblown. OKC were good because their players played high level ball. That’s it. Not because CP3 developed them.

Can’t see a single free agent of note coming to NY for a 36 year old CP3 taking up $45 mill of the cap.

Imo the key to develop young players is to actually play them. They don’t need vets in the way of much needed development minutes.

Presti has been a masterclass in building up the Thunder, and is now starting another rebuild. There’s a reason CP3 won’t be in a Thunder uniform next season, despite the ‘credibility’ he would bring the Thunder.


It’s not about a free agent coming while chris Paul is there, it’s about building up some respect around the league. Trying to be a team that actually wins games and isn’t a joke, not teaching young guys how to lose year in and out. RJ was in the worst
Possible situation to succeed last year, that’s inexcusable and you can’t keep making the same mistakes and expect something to change. I thought knox would have been a good player as well but look at him now.

Chris Paul can be had for nothing of note, I’d even try and get al horford or Kevin love who can be had for nothing despite his contract, and sign gallo by clearing out expiring contracts as well.

They then have a legitimate squad where guys can learn and not be asked to do too much. Confidence is everything. RJ, Robinson and 8th is a good enough start to that.



Dolan has worked hard over the last 2 years to make players suspicious of playing for him, and destroying any chances at a positive environment. If he’s not going to sell the team, and for Knicks fans sake I Hope he does, he will absolutely have to change the league wide image of his team. A Chris Paul in one season won’t fix that. It’s going to take many years, and consistent leadership. But it has to start somewhere. Whether or not it’s Paul or building up from the ground with young guys doesn’t totally matter, but somehow a lot of reclamation work needs to be done.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#86 » by dalton749 » Wed Oct 7, 2020 3:23 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
dalton749 wrote:
FutureKnicksGM wrote:
I think that is absolutely the worst idea possible for the Knicks. A team like ATL is different because they have a young player in Trae worth building around, and are trending upward. Knicks are no were close to finding that player to ‘build around’.

I think the impact of CP3’s intangibles and development of others is overblown. OKC were good because their players played high level ball. That’s it. Not because CP3 developed them.

Can’t see a single free agent of note coming to NY for a 36 year old CP3 taking up $45 mill of the cap.

Imo the key to develop young players is to actually play them. They don’t need vets in the way of much needed development minutes.

Presti has been a masterclass in building up the Thunder, and is now starting another rebuild. There’s a reason CP3 won’t be in a Thunder uniform next season, despite the ‘credibility’ he would bring the Thunder.


It’s not about a free agent coming while chris Paul is there, it’s about building up some respect around the league. Trying to be a team that actually wins games and isn’t a joke, not teaching young guys how to lose year in and out. RJ was in the worst
Possible situation to succeed last year, that’s inexcusable and you can’t keep making the same mistakes and expect something to change. I thought knox would have been a good player as well but look at him now.

Chris Paul can be had for nothing of note, I’d even try and get al horford or Kevin love who can be had for nothing despite his contract, and sign gallo by clearing out expiring contracts as well.

They then have a legitimate squad where guys can learn and not be asked to do too much. Confidence is everything. RJ, Robinson and 8th is a good enough start to that.



Dolan has worked hard over the last 2 years to make players suspicious of playing for him, and destroying any chances at a positive environment. If he’s not going to sell the team, and for Knicks fans sake I Hope he does, he will absolutely have to change the league wide image of his team. A Chris Paul in one season won’t fix that. It’s going to take many years, and consistent leadership. But it has to start somewhere. Whether or not it’s Paul or building up from the ground with young guys doesn’t totally matter, but somehow a lot of reclamation work needs to be done.


I agree that it will take years to change the perception and I think the target for rebuilding the image should be to attract free agents by the 2022/23 Offseason. I do however think that this most important part is next year. New president, new coach and then another 20 win season and it’s back to the same old image that will be nearly impossible to overcome for this group as well.

Im going to make a thread on my fun version of their moves.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#87 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Oct 7, 2020 5:27 pm

dalton749 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
dalton749 wrote:
It’s not about a free agent coming while chris Paul is there, it’s about building up some respect around the league. Trying to be a team that actually wins games and isn’t a joke, not teaching young guys how to lose year in and out. RJ was in the worst
Possible situation to succeed last year, that’s inexcusable and you can’t keep making the same mistakes and expect something to change. I thought knox would have been a good player as well but look at him now.

Chris Paul can be had for nothing of note, I’d even try and get al horford or Kevin love who can be had for nothing despite his contract, and sign gallo by clearing out expiring contracts as well.

They then have a legitimate squad where guys can learn and not be asked to do too much. Confidence is everything. RJ, Robinson and 8th is a good enough start to that.



Dolan has worked hard over the last 2 years to make players suspicious of playing for him, and destroying any chances at a positive environment. If he’s not going to sell the team, and for Knicks fans sake I Hope he does, he will absolutely have to change the league wide image of his team. A Chris Paul in one season won’t fix that. It’s going to take many years, and consistent leadership. But it has to start somewhere. Whether or not it’s Paul or building up from the ground with young guys doesn’t totally matter, but somehow a lot of reclamation work needs to be done.


I agree that it will take years to change the perception and I think the target for rebuilding the image should be to attract free agents by the 2022/23 Offseason. I do however think that this most important part is next year. New president, new coach and then another 20 win season and it’s back to the same old image that will be nearly impossible to overcome for this group as well.

Im going to make a thread on my fun version of their moves.



I wouldn’t say they have to win a ton of games and go all in. What they need to do is commit to an identity, develop it, and prove that they can be a place that players trust and want to be long term. They can do that with young guys too. It’s all about leadership.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#88 » by FutureKnicksGM » Thu Oct 8, 2020 5:49 am

dalton749 wrote:
FutureKnicksGM wrote:
NYG wrote:
I agree with a lot of the things being said here. It's why Chris Paul to NY has grown on me. Nothing with that cap space or the relatively minor asset used to get him could provide the leadership, mentorship, culture shaping, tricks of the trade and ability to run a proper offense and find the young guys is the best spots for their development that Chris Paul does. If he likes it there, that's huge credibility in the league for future free agents, but you're actually sticking to the rebuilding path by getting Paul in my opinion. You don't necessarily need the first overall pick, if the Knicks sneak into the 8th seed in the East with Paul then isn't that playoff experience valuable to the young guys? Can't your scouting find a good player in the draft still?

Franchises like Miami are always looking to do what it takes to win and a bunch of the time they have as a result.


I think that is absolutely the worst idea possible for the Knicks. A team like ATL is different because they have a young player in Trae worth building around, and are trending upward. Knicks are no were close to finding that player to ‘build around’.

I think the impact of CP3’s intangibles and development of others is overblown. OKC were good because their players played high level ball. That’s it. Not because CP3 developed them.

Can’t see a single free agent of note coming to NY for a 36 year old CP3 taking up $45 mill of the cap.

Imo the key to develop young players is to actually play them. They don’t need vets in the way of much needed development minutes.

Presti has been a masterclass in building up the Thunder, and is now starting another rebuild. There’s a reason CP3 won’t be in a Thunder uniform next season, despite the ‘credibility’ he would bring the Thunder.


It’s not about a free agent coming while chris Paul is there, it’s about building up some respect around the league. Trying to be a team that actually wins games and isn’t a joke, not teaching young guys how to lose year in and out. RJ was in the worst
Possible situation to succeed last year, that’s inexcusable and you can’t keep making the same mistakes and expect something to change. I thought knox would have been a good player as well but look at him now.

Chris Paul can be had for nothing of note, I’d even try and get al horford or Kevin love who can be had for nothing despite his contract, and sign gallo by clearing out expiring contracts as well.

They then have a legitimate squad where guys can learn and not be asked to do too much. Confidence is everything. RJ, Robinson and 8th is a good enough start to that.

If he’s not attracting F.A, then how do you get talent to build a contender?

You’ve used all our cap taking on bloated contracts that no one wants. And while some have been lucky, getting a core piece drafting 12-16 every year is extremely unlikely.

In a couple of a years time, which is when RJ and the Knicks should be trending up, you have spent the last couple of years on essentially nothing for the future team around RJ and co. RJ is plenty confident.

While they may be better options than in the past, what you are proposing is exactly what the Knicks have tried to do for the most part of 20 years, i.e go after names who are past their prime, or overpaid, or both, and prioritised them over any young talent that may be on the roster. And the results have been atrocious.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#89 » by VCfor3 » Thu Oct 8, 2020 2:13 pm

If IND ends up hiring D'Antoni, I wonder if they would also try to make a move for Harden. Oladipo, Sabonis, picks (not actually trying to nail down the package). It would put them in a financial crunch possibly later on but still an interesting team.

IND:
Harden/Holiday
Brogdon/Lamb
Warren/McDermott
MLE PF/Leaf?
Turner/Goga
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#90 » by shrink » Thu Oct 8, 2020 4:33 pm

I love this board when posters leave their fandom at the door, and work together to come up with trades that help all parties involved. This board is so valuable to me when you get general, unbiased opinions from neutral fans of 30 teams, and combine it with local info we may not know from posters from that fanbase.

It frustrates me to see posters that come to this neutral board to “defend” their favorite team’s players, or “defend” or And1 posts that are clearly biased towards their home team. To me, each team has it’s own board to “Rah Rah” it’s own players, and even post unrealistic fan expectations at a website called RealGM. There are a million fan sites for these types of fan posts. It would create a better Trade board if posters that followed a certain team would step up and challenge biased posters from their own fanbase, not only to give us all a more accurate view, but to also give these fans feedback that they might listen to, and improve their posting.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#91 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Oct 8, 2020 4:44 pm

shrink wrote:I love this board when posters leave their fandom at the door, and work together to come up with trades that help all parties involved. This board is so valuable to me when you get general, unbiased opinions from neutral fans of 30 teams, and combine it with local info we may not know from posters from that fanbase.




If done right, fans of specific teams can really help us with added info about attachment to specific players, the direction a team is likely seeking, historical context---and neutral fans can help with a much more objective, contextualized sense of the value of their assets.

What happens is we all consume various degrees of local media which is going to always collectively overvalue our team's assets. Always. But that becomes our baseline "true" value and so when we come here and see all the other posters telling us they aren't as valuable as we think, we often dismiss them as haters and they must not watch our team. We get defensive and don't see our own myopia.

I know for instance that I look at Dallas role players DFS, Kleber, and Curry and think of them all in my head as these super valuable, I don't want to move them players. Then I look at Memphis for instance and I see their role players as overpaid JAGs. So then I post deals where Dallas turns their role players into the #2 overall pick and I post deals essentially salary dumping the Grizzlies role players. Clearly I have a major disconnect.

These biases can be hard to see for each of us unless we are willing to look for them and willing to listen when we are collectively told something. Now sometimes we can feel strongly enough about something that its okay to be a little stubborn--as long as we eat crow as readily as we pound our chests.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#92 » by Warriorfan » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:18 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I think this draft is going to end up being a lot better than this board thinks it is, both at the top and later in the first round. We lost the hype of the NCAA tourney, but there are still a lot of strong players coming out. And shrewd GMs will take advantage of lots of outside work watching film and scouting to find the guys whose stock hasn't risen because of the lack of national exposure.


This is the draft where you see what teams have good scouting departments
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#93 » by Warriorfan » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:27 am

I think many fans will be disappointed because owners will make financial decisions over basketball decisions.

They will point to preserving space for 2021 free agency but it really is a way to keep the cap number down.

The teams willing to spend will get value free agent signings

I think they should bring back the amnesty again
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#94 » by zimpy27 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:43 am

Can anyone work out how to flip Avery Bradley (5m), McGee (4m) and Kyle Kuzma (3.5m) into a starting SF with good 3%?
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#95 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:55 am

Warriorfan wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I think this draft is going to end up being a lot better than this board thinks it is, both at the top and later in the first round. We lost the hype of the NCAA tourney, but there are still a lot of strong players coming out. And shrewd GMs will take advantage of lots of outside work watching film and scouting to find the guys whose stock hasn't risen because of the lack of national exposure.


This is the draft where you see what teams have good scouting departments



And which ones are the Dallas Mavericks. :(
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#96 » by Resistance » Fri Oct 9, 2020 2:02 am

zimpy27 wrote:Can anyone work out how to flip Avery Bradley (5m), McGee (4m) and Kyle Kuzma (3.5m) into a starting SF with good 3%?




No sure if that package is worth much above a second round pick (if that). Since bench centers cna be found cheap, McGee for $4 million is likely to be considered negative value since the league isn't absorbing some of that salary. A second for Bradley and a second for Kuzma. The negative value on McGee's contract eats most if not all of the value of one the second round picks which leaves a net result of one second round pick if that.

Another issue is that it will be a fairly unique situation for a team willing to downgrade from a starting SF with good three point shooting for three players coming off the bench.

So not seeing how there is a enough value to get a starting SF that is a good three point shooter.

**********

Edit

I thought about it some more and a second for Bradley is maybe possible rather than probable.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#97 » by Godaddycurse » Fri Oct 9, 2020 2:08 am

zimpy27 wrote:Can anyone work out how to flip Avery Bradley (5m), McGee (4m) and Kyle Kuzma (3.5m) into a starting SF with good 3%?


Kuzma and minor filler of choice for McDermott? Indy saves 1-2 mil and get a backup 4, LA gets shooting.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#98 » by Buzzard » Fri Oct 9, 2020 2:09 am

Warriorfan wrote:I think many cans will be disappointed because owners will make financial decisions over basketball decisions.

They will point to preserving space for 2021 free agency but it really is a way to keep the cap number down.

The teams willing to spend will get value free agent signings

I think they should bring back the amnesty again

They should keep the cap flat at 109 but I am not of the opinion that the big spenders should get another amnesty. No one held a gun to these owners heads for some of these crazy contracts.

GSW, 76ers, Nets, Celtics, Bucks need to be held accountable for their spending.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#99 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Oct 9, 2020 2:14 am

Godaddycurse wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Can anyone work out how to flip Avery Bradley (5m), McGee (4m) and Kyle Kuzma (3.5m) into a starting SF with good 3%?


Kuzma and minor filler of choice for McDermott? Indy saves 1-2 mil and get a backup 4, LA gets shooting.



That's good.


Or the first 2 plus some future 2nds for Snelll. He's not a good starter, but he defends okay, makes 3's and is probably very playable next to Lebron and AD for 25 mpg.

Heck the Lakers could do both and have a pretty servicable duo.
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Re: Trade Board General Thoughts Thread 

Post#100 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Oct 9, 2020 2:16 am

Buzzard wrote:
Warriorfan wrote:I think many cans will be disappointed because owners will make financial decisions over basketball decisions.

They will point to preserving space for 2021 free agency but it really is a way to keep the cap number down.

The teams willing to spend will get value free agent signings

I think they should bring back the amnesty again

They should keep the cap flat at 109 but I am not of the opinion that the big spenders should get another amnesty. No one held a gun to these owners heads for some of these crazy contracts.

GSW, 76ers, Nets, Celtics, Bucks need to be held accountable for their spending.


I'm fine with no amnesty but teams make moves on cap projections provided by the league. And the league doesn't want contenders not improving their teams because of this unexpected financial situation. I don't blame any team for not seeing a pandemic coming in the summer of 2019.
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