What Makes Andrew Wiggins Neutral?

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drosereturn
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Re: What Makes Andrew Wiggins Neutral? 

Post#101 » by drosereturn » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:02 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:
And I believe he can be a borderline All-Star. There are All-Stars. There are players that deserve to be All-Stars, there just weren't enough spots to get them on. And there are borderline All-Stars. Those are players that are a significant step below All-Star caliber players but are a significant step above just a solid starter.



Its already 2 yrs too late that ship has sailed and I was a huge believer in that I wanted him over Lavine in the trade package.
But now the guys logged in over 6yrs, 15k minutes and thats a lot of mileage its just not possible to just brainwash him into a new player. Thibs basically wasted his talent when he decided to waste him in Wolves and taught him nothing he got worse every yr.
Literal career killer he ended 2 future HOF in Rose and Wigs as well as perennial all star Deng.

Even if he improves skill wise, his athleticism will start to decline like Westbrook is now he has to be willing to take paycut like Rose for any other team to give him a long term commitment and forget his horrible past.
Warriors does have highest chance making him into an all star with gang Green and angel Curry spoon feeding but thats only after admitting they are willing to be a 1st exit team. And even if he became an all star, green and curry would be in retirement home.
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Re: What Makes Andrew Wiggins Neutral? 

Post#102 » by GQ Hot Dog » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:14 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:

I had put it away, but its time to crack back out the magical 403 minutes trope again I see. It's one thing to be optimistic--but all-star seems wow.

As to this board's outdated info---I'll take teh 16,000 minute sample size over the 403 minute sample size particularly when even the 403 minute sample size was mediocre and was played on a total different roster than the one they hope to win with so not sure why its relevant but 16,000 minutes is outdated.


Based on what I've seen since he came over and what I know of our organization I'm confident he'll significantly outplay all his prior minutes. That's my position and it informs what I think of the trade offers I've seen. There's a significant disconnect between what I believe will happen and what most other posters think will happen that only a season of Wiggins as a Warrior can possibly reconcile. So I eagerly anticipate your perception of Wiggins abilities and value this time next year.

And I believe he can be a borderline All-Star. There are All-Stars. There are players that deserve to be All-Stars, there just weren't enough spots to get them on. And there are borderline All-Stars. Those are players that are a significant step below All-Star caliber players but are a significant step above just a solid starter.



What have you seen from Wiggins since the trade that no one else has?


The ability to play great and versatile defense. He posted the highest blocks and steals numbers in his career over the 12 games he played with the Warriors. He showed the ability to move his feet and defend on the perimeter as well as the ability to protect the rim as a help defender. The difference between an organizational culture and coaching staff that emphasizes and teaches defense like the Warriors in contrast to the TWolves is significant. Offense is mostly about personal skill and talent while defense is more about focus, conscientiousness and attention to detail. All the reports from Warriors coaches are that Wiggins has embraced defense.

Development of playmaking ability. Even with the TWolves Wiggins appears to have made a leap in his playmaking abilities this past season. He never averaged more than 2.5 assists prior to this past season when he jumped up to 3.7 apg. This is a tendency that will be even more heavily emphasized in the Warriors scheme with him getting most of his minutes alongside Steph and Klay.

His assist numbers won't necessarily take another leap but his willingness to pass the ball will benefit the offense in such a way that he'll get far more open and easier shots than ever before in his career which will lead to a dramatic jump in his scoring efficiency. He's going to be taking more shots closer in on backdoor cuts and more wide open corner threes. Offensive efficiency will be where he sees the most dramatic improvement while his counting stats won't necessarily change that much as his usage declines.
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Re: What Makes Andrew Wiggins Neutral? 

Post#103 » by GQ Hot Dog » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:19 pm

drosereturn wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:
And I believe he can be a borderline All-Star. There are All-Stars. There are players that deserve to be All-Stars, there just weren't enough spots to get them on. And there are borderline All-Stars. Those are players that are a significant step below All-Star caliber players but are a significant step above just a solid starter.



Its already 2 yrs too late that ship has sailed and I was a huge believer in that I wanted him over Lavine in the trade package.
But now the guys logged in over 6yrs, 15k minutes and thats a lot of mileage its just not possible to just brainwash him into a new player. Thibs basically wasted his talent when he decided to waste him in Wolves and taught him nothing he got worse every yr.
Literal career killer he ended 2 future HOF in Rose and Wigs as well as perennial all star Deng.

Even if he improves skill wise, his athleticism will start to decline like Westbrook is now he has to be willing to take paycut like Rose for any other team to give him a long term commitment and forget his horrible past.
Warriors does have highest chance making him into an all star with gang Green and angel Curry spoon feeding but thats only after admitting they are willing to be a 1st exit team. And even if he became an all star, green and curry would be in retirement home.


God, what a depressing and pessimistic prognosis.

So even if he's able to improve to All-Star level play(better than "borderline" even) the best we can hope for is a perennial 1st round exit every year? So would that mean with Steph, Klay and Wiggins playing at an All-Star level(and Dray at a borderline All-Star level) we wouldn't be able to get past the first round?

The math doesn't seem right.
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Re: What Makes Andrew Wiggins Neutral? 

Post#104 » by Warriorfan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:36 pm

Good thing the warriors who have a pretty good track record 5 of 6 yrs don't agree with RealGM posters
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Re: What Makes Andrew Wiggins Neutral? 

Post#105 » by azwfan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:12 pm

Well I’ll just say, I’m optimistic about Wiggins on the Warriors but not quite so optimistic to think he’ll be anything resembling an all star.
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Re: What Makes Andrew Wiggins Neutral? 

Post#106 » by Vae Victus » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:14 am

Yikes... talk about a rosy outlook on Wiggin's future.

Well, i guess it doesnt hurt GSW to roll the dice and see if Wiggins gets his head out of his ass, no one seems to be biting on Wiggins + #2 anyway. Problem is, even if Wiggins does improve it still doesnt improve his trade stock, as other teams can rightly say, "Wiggins is only doing well cuz GSW is stacked with shooting and playmaking, making his life ez, we sure as **** dont have the same ingrediants to make Wiggins work for us." I mean, playing with Steph and Klay, with all the spacing makes life so much easier. Wiggins needs at least 1 year of solid play + good playoff showing to make his trade value go up. Also the size of his deal is just so damn hard to digest for nearly all squads. Anyway if Wiggins is working out, then GSW might as well keep him, if Wiggins remains garbage, well no one is surprised and the team should be aggressively shopping him as hard as possible.

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