Bucks/Hawks/Magic

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Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#1 » by Buzzard » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:53 pm

Bucks out:
Middleton, B. Lopez, Irsan, and #24
Bucks in:
Vuc, Fournier, Ross, Huerter

The Bucks add more versatility and depth. The threes are almost equal when comparing Vuc/Ross to Lopez/Middleton alone. Where the Bucks make out is Fournier and Huerter over Irsan.

Hawks out:
Huerter, Dedmon, #6
Hawks in:
Middleton, B. Lopez

The Hawks give up #6 and Huerter to chase a playoff berth. This one move makes them a deep team with solid talent on their front line.

Magic out:
Vuc, Fournier, Ross
Magic in:
Dedmon, Irsan, #6 and #24

Dedmon and Irsan clear the books in 2021 except 1 million for Dedmon; or they can keep Dedmon another year at 13.5. This gives the Magic picks 6, 15, and 24 to start a mini rebuild. Time to find out if Bamba is the future; the cap savings is roughly 36 Million the day the trade is completed.

Two things have to happen here. Fournier opts in and Irsan is picked up by the Bucks.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#2 » by Couch Potato » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:17 pm

That looks like a easy yes for the Bucks. Ersan is a unguaranteed/expiring deal. #24 meh. Brook D is great and boxing out for rebounds but if not raining three's or coach gives his plays in the paint for scoring he's ran off the court. Middleton has his moments as a 50/40/90 guy. Was good in the playoffs. But still a coaster here and there and moody and body language before he got his max deal. This has to be a easy yes for all Bucks fans. Vuc can go off for 30 points any night. Fournier is decent. Russ is a good 6th man Huerter a nice young piece added. Huerter is locked in cheap yet. Fournier is a player option. Trade like this means DDV is PG and deal Bledsoe?

Magic easily say no. Dedmom and Ersan is meh. #6 and #24 in a weak draft gross. This deal is D.O.A.

Hawks easily say yes.

So yeah Magic saying no kills this trade right away.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#3 » by Buzzard » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:23 pm

Couch Potato wrote:That looks like a easy yes for the Bucks. Ersan is a expiring deal. #24 meh. Brook D is great and boxing out for rebounds but if not raining three's or coach gives his plays in the paint for scoring he's ran off the court. Middleton has his moments as a 50/40/90 guy. Was good in the playoffs. But still a coaster here and there and moody and body language before he got his max deal. This has to be a easy yes for all Bucks fans. Vuc can go off for 30 points any night. Fournier is decent. Russ is a good 6th man Huerter a nice young piece added. Huerter is locked in cheap yet. Fournier is a player option. Trade like this means DDV is PG and deal Bledsoe?

Magic easily say no. Dedmom is and Ersan is meh. #6 and #24 i a weak draft gross. This deal is D.O.A.

Hawks easily say yes.

So yeah Magic saying no kills this trade right away.

Time will tell with the Magic. I think Fournier opting in is 50/50. He might chase more years for security. I just think sooner or later they have to chase a star. Its not Fultz and honestly I see Vuc as their best player. Ross is solid on a solid deal for what he is.

I think the Magic would be tempted if they see a rebuild on the horizon. Next move would be to see how these picks work out with Fultz, Bamba, and Gordon.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#4 » by MagicMatic » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:55 pm

Why does Orlando do this?
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#5 » by Skybox » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:57 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Two things have to happen here. Fournier opts in and Irsan is picked up by the Bucks.


One other thing has to happen. ORL front office goes out drinking and agrees to this trade while intoxicated. :banghead:
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#6 » by myrak433 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:18 pm

I like Middleton, but not for that salary. So I would pass.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#7 » by Buzzard » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:35 pm

Skybox wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Two things have to happen here. Fournier opts in and Irsan is picked up by the Bucks.


One other thing has to happen. ORL front office goes out drinking and agrees to this trade while intoxicated. :banghead:

You are putting a lot of value in Ross and Fournier. I like them but we are talking about veteran players that have been together for four years and their best record is being over .500 once in 2018/19. Fournier, Gordon, and Vucevek have been together 6 years and same thing; that one season over .500.

Maybe they are better than their record indicates; but I think 4 to 6 years is enough proof.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#8 » by Godaddycurse » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 pm

this is a great deal for orlando if they want to rebuild. not sure how much more they can expect to get. In fact i think milwaukee shouldnt have to attach 24. Imo if magic fans are willing to do wiggins + 2 for vuc, how is it they dont want to do vuc + ross + fournier for 6? i have wiggins negative value much worse than ross/fournier and difference between 2 and 6 in this weak draft.

I also think hawks are getting too good a deal with middleton for 6 (i have Brolo = huerter/dedmon). Should add a future first or something.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#9 » by Buzzard » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:44 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:this is a great deal for orlando if they want to rebuild. not sure how much more they can expect to get. In fact i think milwaukee shouldnt have to attach 24. Imo if magic fans are willing to do wiggins + 2 for vuc, how is it they dont want to do vuc + ross + fournier for 6? i have wiggins negative value much worse than ross/fournier and difference between 2 and 6 in this weak draft.

I also think hawks are getting too good a deal with middleton for 6 (i have Brolo = huerter/dedmon). Should add a future first (mb okc "fake" 1st even).

I agree. With this deal they get two picks and clear over 30 million in cap instead of eating 34 in cap for three more seasons. If they cut Dedmon loose in 2021, for his 1million guaranteed, they clear a total of 50 million in two seasons.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#10 » by Godaddycurse » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:49 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:this is a great deal for orlando if they want to rebuild. not sure how much more they can expect to get. In fact i think milwaukee shouldnt have to attach 24. Imo if magic fans are willing to do wiggins + 2 for vuc, how is it they dont want to do vuc + ross + fournier for 6? i have wiggins negative value much worse than ross/fournier and difference between 2 and 6 in this weak draft.

I also think hawks are getting too good a deal with middleton for 6 (i have Brolo = huerter/dedmon). Should add a future first (mb okc "fake" 1st even).

I agree. With this deal they get two picks and clear over 30 million in cap instead of eating 34 in cap for three more seasons. If they cut Dedmon loose in 2021, for his 1million guaranteed, they clear a total of 50 million in two seasons.


They also get some very big TPEs to use for future trades/eating future bad contracts to get even more assets back. its a can't miss deal for rebuilding imo.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#11 » by Topofthekey » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:57 pm

I think the direction is right for all three teams actually, they all do what they should be doing

The value for Magic is a little off though

Swap the #24 for DVV, and I think all three teams say yes

Maybe also have Hawks compensate Bucks slightly with a pair of future 2RPs, I think that'll do it
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#12 » by Buzzard » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:01 am

Topofthekey wrote:I think the direction is right for all three teams actually, they all do what they should be doing

The value for Magic is a little off though

Swap the #24 for DVV, and I think all three teams say yes

Maybe also have Hawks compensate Bucks slightly with a pair of future 2RPs, I think that'll do it

I don't see a problem for the Hawks adding 2nds. DVV for 24 should also work with the shooters the Bucks are getting back. Its a good compromise.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#13 » by Buzzard » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:40 am

MagicMatic wrote:Why does Orlando do this?

Because they have been over .500 once in the last 8 years and next season does not look any better. I think the better question is why are they sitting on these same players year after year?
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#14 » by MagicMatic » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:05 am

Buzzard wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Why does Orlando do this?

Because they have been over .500 once in the last 8 years and next season does not look any better. I think the better question is why are they sitting on these same players year after year?


The idea is right. However, the value is way off.

This draft isn’t good and you are including Orlando’s entire offense into this transaction for a bunch of nothing. They would at least want one player of value in exchange for 3.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#15 » by Buzzard » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:15 am

MagicMatic wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Why does Orlando do this?

Because they have been over .500 once in the last 8 years and next season does not look any better. I think the better question is why are they sitting on these same players year after year?


The idea is right. However, the value is way off.

This draft isn’t good and you are including Orlando’s entire offense into this transaction for a bunch of nothing. They would at least want one player of value in exchange for 3.

DDV could be included but you are talking about a offense that has been ranked 23rd, 22nd, and 25th the past three seasons. You clear over 30 million in cap, make the picks at 6, 15, 24, sign a player or two on short contracts, see what happens. Hell if you clear enough, chase VanFleet and see what happens.

Your team reminds me of the Hawks with Josh Smith and Josh Childress. Hawks fans way over valued them and until they were cut loose, they never did anything in the playoffs. But they did break .500 more than just once.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#16 » by Baddy Chuck » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:22 am

To me this is at best shuffling decks chairs (on a 70 win pace team) while not solving any of our issues as a team and giving up the best player. I'd pass.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#17 » by Buzzard » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:30 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:To me this is at best shuffling decks chairs (on a 70 win pace team) while not solving any of our issues as a team and giving up the best player. I'd pass.

I have been waiting on a Bucks fan to speak up. I think its a good shuffle and gives Bud a better performing center. I think one thing that gets lost here is Bud's past. He came up with Duncan and the Spurs. Then turned a pretty average Hawks team with Horford and Milsap into a pretty good one.

I think Vucevic would fit in well with Bud and I am not saying Middleton doesn't. But with Fournier, Ross, and Huerter he still gets plenty of firepower to use in his rotations.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#18 » by trwi7 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:03 am

This is just playing into Bud's biggest problem of giving role players too many minutes. Yeah the role players we get are better than the ones we have but the cost is losing our second best player and basically giving Bud the okay to continue playing Giannis 30-35 minutes a night in the playoffs because Ross and Fournier can handle more than Connaughton, Korver, Matthews, etc.
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#19 » by Buzzard » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:15 am

trwi7 wrote:This is just playing into Bud's biggest problem of giving role players too many minutes. Yeah the role players we get are better than the ones we have but the cost is losing our second best player and basically giving Bud the okay to continue playing Giannis 30-35 minutes a night in the playoffs because Ross and Fournier can handle more than Connaughton, Korver, Matthews, etc.

Bud coaches the way he coaches. What needs to change is the quality of players around Giannis. Their depth was horrible with Mathews, Williams, and Connoughton rounding out the top 8 for minutes in the playoffs.

Look at it lik this, he won't have Middleton to give almost 36 minutes a game to so maybe Giannis does get more minutes this way :lol:
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Re: Bucks/Hawks/Magic 

Post#20 » by Ducklett » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:32 am

Buzzard wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Because they have been over .500 once in the last 8 years and next season does not look any better. I think the better question is why are they sitting on these same players year after year?


The idea is right. However, the value is way off.

This draft isn’t good and you are including Orlando’s entire offense into this transaction for a bunch of nothing. They would at least want one player of value in exchange for 3.

DDV could be included but you are talking about a offense that has been ranked 23rd, 22nd, and 25th the past three seasons. You clear over 30 million in cap, make the picks at 6, 15, 24, sign a player or two on short contracts, see what happens. Hell if you clear enough, chase VanFleet and see what happens.

Your team reminds me of the Hawks with Josh Smith and Josh Childress. Hawks fans way over valued them and until they were cut loose, they never did anything in the playoffs. But they did break .500 more than just once.


I understand your position and I think this is the kind of direction the Magic should go, but by your own admission this draft sucks, why would you want 3 picks in a bad draft? Couldn't the Magic wait to the deadline and try for some 2021 picks?

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