Raptors/Wolves and its big

[Texas Chuck]

I'm pretty sure this is close to working with with the PPP. Minny might have to add just slightly more salary or could be done once the #1 pick is signed.

Johnson
Culver
Layman
#1
#17

for

Siakam

Rumor are Wolves are not enthralled with top of the draft and that they'd like a veteran. Here they get a PF who complements Towns just about perfectly and his timeline fits right in with the core of the team.

Raptors cash out for their choice of players in this draft, a wing with some offensive issues, but defensive chops in Culver and another 1st. They now can say to Giannis come and bring any friend you want and don't worry if he's not a free agent because we will have some nice assets to trade for that guy like the Clippers just did to land Kawhi.

[HartfordWhalers]

I would give that up for Siakim as Minnesota. But I probably wouldn't as Toronto, unless I felt really bad about all targets in '21.

[Godaddycurse]

This doesn't work with PPP; siakams outgoing salary is 3 mil? Also not enough value for siakam imo. Ball/wiseman/edwards and culver, 17 is not enough. If toronto wants to go this direction i would ask for future 1sts on top of this package.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Very interesting. I think it has merits on both sides. For the Wolves, I think Siakam is the best target for them to add someone who is relatively young and very talented. The return for Toronto is rock solid, but do they want to give up their best player who is actually going to be under contract when they are looking at 2021 FA?

[Texas Chuck]

This doesn't work with PPP; siakams outgoing salary is 3 mil? Also not enough value for siakam imo. Ball/wiseman/edwards and culver, 17 is not enough. If toronto wants to go this direction i would ask for future 1sts on top of this package.

Happens officially in the new calendar year when Raps have plenty of cap space.

Duly noted on the value.

[Godaddycurse]

This doesn't work with PPP; siakams outgoing salary is 3 mil? Also not enough value for siakam imo. Ball/wiseman/edwards and culver, 17 is not enough. If toronto wants to go this direction i would ask for future 1sts on top of this package.

Happens officially in the new calendar year when Raps have plenty of cap space.

Duly noted on the value.

We would only have cap space if we renounce Ibaka, gasol and fvv which is not happening.

[Buzzard]

I don't think the Raptors do it even though it would help them keep FVV. I think they value Siakam in the two top five picks range. Culver has bust written all over him.

[jimmy keys]

Not a big fan of these 4 quarters for a dollar type deals. The value is there, but what are the chances any of those players become as good as Siakam already is. If the Raptors were to trade him I'd want an upgrade in talent (like Giannis) or a young blue chip prospect that might want to stay in Toronto for years (like SGA). This deal doesn't get either of those things.

[Texas Chuck]

This doesn't work with PPP; siakams outgoing salary is 3 mil? Also not enough value for siakam imo. Ball/wiseman/edwards and culver, 17 is not enough. If toronto wants to go this direction i would ask for future 1sts on top of this package.

Happens officially in the new calendar year when Raps have plenty of cap space.

Duly noted on the value.

We would only have cap space if we renounce Ibaka, gasol and fvv which is not happening.

In this scenario I think they'd likely let the bigs go. But whatever. The value appears to be the bigger issue so not going to get hung up on the mechanics.

[HartfordWhalers]

This doesn't work with PPP; siakams outgoing salary is 3 mil? Also not enough value for siakam imo. Ball/wiseman/edwards and culver, 17 is not enough. If toronto wants to go this direction i would ask for future 1sts on top of this package.

Happens officially in the new calendar year when Raps have plenty of cap space.

Duly noted on the value.

We would only have cap space if we renounce Ibaka, gasol and fvv which is not happening.

Next season -- after Nba year roll over -- Siakim is ~29m. Taking in Johnson Culer Layman is ~26m.

Minnesota picks for Toronto but sends he players as unsigned draft picks and thus 0 cap hold.

Works fine for both and doesn't require cap space by either.

[Wolveswin]

This one has been batted around on Wolves board and gets mixed reviews. I for one would do it.

I think Raptors might want a consolidation 3rd team involved. Say #17 + #29 + Culver (unless they really like his upside) + Okogie (or other Wolves youth) for best draft pick or other teams youth they can get.

How about this crazy idea:

Warriors: Paschall + 2021 Wolves 1st FOR Johnson (via Iggy TPE) + OG

Do Warriors need to give up more? Add 2022 1st?

Raptors: Siakam + OG + #29 FOR #1 + Culver + Paschall + #17 + 2021 Wolves 1st (Wolves make unprotected)

Wolves: #1 + Johnson + Culver + #17 + 2021 1st (now unprotected) FOR Siakam + #29

[Godaddycurse]

This one has been batted around on Wolves board and gets mixed reviews. I for one would do it.

I think Raptors might want a consolidation 3rd team involved. Say #17 + #29 + Culver (unless they really like his upside) + Okogie (or other Wolves youth) for best draft pick or other teams youth they can get.

How about this crazy idea:

Warriors: Paschall + 2021 Wolves 1st FOR Johnson (via Iggy TPE) + OG

Do Warriors need to give up more? Add 2022 1st?

Raptors: Siakam + OG + #29 FOR #1 + Culver + Paschall + #17 + 2021 Wolves 1st (Wolves make unprotected)

Wolves: #1 + Johnson + Culver + #17 + 2021 1st (now unprotected) FOR Siakam + #29

There is a disconnect between wolves fans and rest of nba where they think the #1 is super valuable except rest of us think this draft is not enticing and full of risk at the top, so its not assigned the same value it normally has. i mean if you ask yourself is KAT is worth your package it would be a pretty resounding no from your part as well (understanbably). Imo toronto values siakam as much as minny values KAT.

[Texas Chuck]

This one has been batted around on Wolves board and gets mixed reviews. I for one would do it.

I think Raptors might want a consolidation 3rd team involved. Say #17 + #29 + Culver (unless they really like his upside) + Okogie (or other Wolves youth) for best draft pick or other teams youth they can get.

How about this crazy idea:

Warriors: Paschall + 2021 Wolves 1st FOR Johnson (via Iggy TPE) + OG

Do Warriors need to give up more? Add 2022 1st?

Raptors: Siakam + OG + #29 FOR #1 + Culver + Paschall + #17 + 2021 Wolves 1st (Wolves make unprotected)

Wolves: #1 + Johnson + Culver + #17 + 2021 1st (now unprotected) FOR Siakam + #29

There is a disconnect between wolves fans and rest of nba where they think the #1 is super valuable except rest of us think this draft is not enticing and full of risk at the top, so its not assigned the same value it normally has. i mean if you ask yourself is KAT is worth your package it would be a pretty resounding no from your part as well (understanbably). Imo toronto values siakam as much as minny values KAT.

I would say then there is a disconnect between how you think Toronto values Siakam compared with how the league values the two players. I would have Towns a lot more valuable than Siakam.

I also don't really see the relevance of Towns to any of this.

[SmokeyPaw]

I'd do it for the wolves - Siakam is a great fit for us. Toronto may well object. There would have to be someone they think is being significantly undervalued at the top of the draft.

[Godaddycurse]

This one has been batted around on Wolves board and gets mixed reviews. I for one would do it.

I think Raptors might want a consolidation 3rd team involved. Say #17 + #29 + Culver (unless they really like his upside) + Okogie (or other Wolves youth) for best draft pick or other teams youth they can get.

How about this crazy idea:

Warriors: Paschall + 2021 Wolves 1st FOR Johnson (via Iggy TPE) + OG

Do Warriors need to give up more? Add 2022 1st?

Raptors: Siakam + OG + #29 FOR #1 + Culver + Paschall + #17 + 2021 Wolves 1st (Wolves make unprotected)

Wolves: #1 + Johnson + Culver + #17 + 2021 1st (now unprotected) FOR Siakam + #29

There is a disconnect between wolves fans and rest of nba where they think the #1 is super valuable except rest of us think this draft is not enticing and full of risk at the top, so its not assigned the same value it normally has. i mean if you ask yourself is KAT is worth your package it would be a pretty resounding no from your part as well (understanbably). Imo toronto values siakam as much as minny values KAT.

I would say then there is a disconnect between how you value think Toronto values Siakam compared with how the league values the two players. I would have Towns a lot more valuable than Siakam.

I also don't really see the relevance of Towns to any of this.

Is Towns more valuable though? For all his offensive accolades he is just as bad on defense while Siakam is a 2 way star. They are guaranteed the same amount of years and siakam has missed less time to injury. I think it's closer than we think between these 2.

Anyways that wasn't my point. I was trying to say that wolves value KAT for his potential and offense while rest of league would point to his lack of winning and poor defense as knocks on his value, but that doesn't stop wolves from (over)valuing him and making him near untouchable in trades. Ditto for toronto (Fanbase) and likely FO considering masai drafted siakam and handed out this extension to him.

[Godaddycurse]

There is a disconnect between wolves fans and rest of nba where they think the #1 is super valuable except rest of us think this draft is not enticing and full of risk at the top, so its not assigned the same value it normally has. i mean if you ask yourself is KAT is worth your package it would be a pretty resounding no from your part as well (understanbably). Imo toronto values siakam as much as minny values KAT.

I would say then there is a disconnect between how you value think Toronto values Siakam compared with how the league values the two players. I would have Towns a lot more valuable than Siakam.

I also don't really see the relevance of Towns to any of this.

Is Towns more valuable though? For all his offensive accolades he is just as bad on defense while Siakam is a 2 way star. They are guaranteed the same amount of years and siakam has missed less time to injury. I think it's closer than we think between these 2.

Anyways that wasn't my point. I was trying to say that wolves value KAT for his potential and offense while rest of league would point to his lack of winning and poor defense as knocks on his value, but that doesn't stop wolves from (over)valuing him and making him near untouchable in trades. Ditto for toronto (Fanbase) and likely FO considering masai drafted siakam and handed out this extension to him.

on second glance KAT's offense is way better so i cede the 1st point you're right that was a poor comparison/i stand corrected.

[mademan]

I think it's decent on value, Raps would probably need more incoming to their side, but decent. That said, it's poor direction. Raps should be looking at the East and really asking "why not us". They got to the last minute of a game 7 against the C's and wouldve been confident if coin flipping against the Heat. And the East isnt getting much stronger next year (i dont really believe in BRK).

[Texas Chuck]

I think it's decent on value, Raps would probably need more incoming to their side, but decent. That said, it's poor direction. Raps should be looking at the East and really asking "why not us". They got to the last minute of a game 7 against the C's and wouldve been confident if coin flipping against the Heat. And the East isnt getting much stronger next year (i dont really believe in BRK).

Yeah I keep flipping back and forth on what I think Toronto should do. Part of me says largely run it back and maybe try and use some smaller assets for an expiring upgrade so they still have plenty of Giannis flexibility and part of me says let the bigs go, let FVV go if you have to though I think they can afford him and keep a max slot and use this year to build up some more assets.

You are probably right though that as long as you limit the bigs to one year deals that running it back is the smarter course.

[Godaddycurse]

I think it's decent on value, Raps would probably need more incoming to their side, but decent. That said, it's poor direction. Raps should be looking at the East and really asking "why not us". They got to the last minute of a game 7 against the C's and wouldve been confident if coin flipping against the Heat. And the East isnt getting much stronger next year (i dont really believe in BRK).

Yeah I keep flipping back and forth on what I think Toronto should do. Part of me says largely run it back and maybe try and use some smaller assets for an expiring upgrade so they still have plenty of Giannis flexibility and part of me says let the bigs go, let FVV go if you have to though I think they can afford him and keep a max slot and use this year to build up some more assets.

You are probably right though that as long as you limit the bigs to one year deals that running it back is the smarter course.

In terms of direction, i disagree that doing this trade would help recruit giannis; it will likely turn him off because of the lack of a guaranteed 2nd star. We also can't assume its automatic that the 1st overall will become an asset to be sign and traded; lots of rookies' value go down (in some cases way down) after being drafted, esp this draft class with the uncertainty at the top.

If toronto decides to blow it up and give up on giannis then i much rather just trade w/ GSW and eat wiggins' contract and get 2 high picks + future 1st(s) as well. Either way minny's package as listed in OP is the inferior option in my mind.

[Texas Chuck]

In terms of direction, i disagree that doing this trade would help recruit giannis;

Fair criticism for sure. And I know about all the dangers of driving a car off the lot. The idea was Siakam versus whomever Giannis could recruit to come with him as a FA or whom the Raps could trade for with a lot of assets. More flexibility in the latter option but obviously more risk if nobody wants to come play with him in Toronto or the Raps can't acquire who he would want more than Siakam.

Just exploring the idea. I understand big ones like this are usually not as good as they originally seem in my mind.