[Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward

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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#101 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:46 pm

Cklbmk wrote:
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KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:he gave absolutely zero **** playing on a clearly rebuilding team, so uhh good luck



You should absolutely encourage this and get SA to pay $10m to essentially erase your payment to Batum this year :wink:



I'd be surprised if we needed to use MLE but I could completely see us grabbing him at the min


Oh, I ABSOLUTELY agree. It’s just in Charlottes best interest that whomever signs him does so for a good amount of money so the set off gives them money back.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#102 » by Prospect Dong » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:17 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:I would have actually "liked" this for them if they made the money work in a way other than stretching Batum. They were still gonna have like $30M of cap next year but now they chopped that off by like a 3rd with the Batum stretch.

Hayward is still a really great player. He's gonna be 20/5/5 with good efficiency on his own team. Graham/Ball/Bridges/Washington are all good young players. I still expect a lottery pick for them next year. With cap space to spend I think they could have landed some good players. I really thought this could have been a solid team this time next year ready to charge if the young guys grew.

All that is still true. But hurting that flexibility with the Batum stretch seems like a very poor move. I'm sure they could have made the money other ways.


I think he needs to do basically that to justify the contract, especially since he definitely won't be doing it in year 4. Or year 3, for that matter. I don't think he will (the good efficiency, especially, will be tough), but I agree if he does then it was a fine-to-good signing.

If he's a couple of notches below that, like I think he will be, the fit is still great. The strategy is ok, I guess (I'd have tanked, but I can see the arguments against for the Hornets). But the asset valuation is just absolutely terrible. Small market teams without an in-house superstar need to hit a lot of singles to stay competitive. This takes away a lot of those opportunities for 2-4 years. Ouch.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#103 » by jayjaysee » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:01 am

Obviously too much money but he’s a great fit and should help the kids.. And if they’re not rebuilding - they weren’t going to sign anyone better.

But hopefully they’re not done. And hopefully it’s not Westbrook and/or Love. Though the AND would have been fun on defense. But can’t work with Batum stretched. That’s a positive for Charlotte fans. But....

Anyone in for a Bogans special with WHG to help get some “talent” to Charlotte? Rozier and a 20 mil WHG (2yr UNG) for Russ and a Zeller+ for KLove. Set!
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#104 » by giberish » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 am

This is a massively short-sighed move.

Will Hayward be better next season then whatever SF they could have signed with $12M or so of cap space? Sure. But it only gets Charlotte from 20-25 wins up to 30-35 wins.

Then going forward Hayward costs essentially $39M/yr with the stretched Batum money. And he's just not THAT good. Even at full health he's at best worth $25-30M/yr now. But once you factor in the time he misses that goes down. Then add in age-related decline and it drops more.

So for a minor and unimportant move this season Charlotte now has a guy likely to be overpaid be something like $20M/yr for the next 3 seasons.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#105 » by Topofthekey » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:49 am

It's not THAT bad for the Hornets honestly

What else are they supposed to do with their cap space anyway

Hayward, if healthy, at least makes them relevant, if only slightly

It's not like they had a bright future to begin with. Their best prospect is Lamelo Ball (ugh), they aren't an FA destination, and they don't have anyone to build around

Might as well roll the dice with Hayward
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#106 » by LofJ » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:53 am

The only thing I'm mad about is that they stretched Batum. There had to be another way to open up the small amount of extra cap we needed.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#107 » by Domejandro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:01 am

The Batum stretch is horrible. Just awful.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#108 » by jayjaysee » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:02 am

Topofthekey wrote:It's not THAT bad for the Hornets honestly

What else are they supposed to do with their cap space anyway

Hayward, if healthy, at least makes them relevant, if only slightly

It's not like they had a bright future to begin with. Their best prospect is Lamelo Ball (ugh), they aren't an FA destination, and they don't have anyone to build around

Might as well roll the dice with Hayward


Graham/Ball/Bridges/Washington

Could have been a really nice future if they tanked this season and added a best player in 2021 draft. I love PJ and understand the hype around Ball.

But if they weren’t going to tank - I do like adding Gordon.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#109 » by Diop » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:41 am

I think the idea is to sign Hayward this year which hopefully helps us sign another good free agent next year.
I wanted to tank one more season , but MJ hates that.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#110 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:45 am

How much money does Charlotte actually need to clear to get enough space to sign Hayward? With the Batum stretch not official I have to imagine someone smart is telling them to look at their options.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#111 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:46 am

Diop wrote:I think the idea is to sign Hayward this year which hopefully helps us sign another good free agent next year.
I wanted to tank one more season , but MJ hates that.


I agree that seems to be the plan. But signing a FA will be tougher to if you guys do the Batum stretch.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#112 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:50 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:How much money does Charlotte actually need to clear to get enough space to sign Hayward? With the Batum stretch not official I have to imagine someone smart is telling them to look at their options.


I think about $7.5M from what I've read. It's tough because they don't really have any salaries in that range. Monk isn't enough at $5.3M. Zeller at $15M is probably expensive to get some team to take on. But it should definitely be doable.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#113 » by Diop » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:53 am

hugepatsfan wrote:
Diop wrote:I think the idea is to sign Hayward this year which hopefully helps us sign another good free agent next year.
I wanted to tank one more season , but MJ hates that.


I agree that seems to be the plan. But signing a FA will be tougher to if you guys do the Batum stretch.

Read on Twitter


Hopefully the stretch doesn’t happen but was just reported to show ainge we aren’t at his mercy. I bet he wishes he took that turner deal
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#114 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:56 am

Diop wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Diop wrote:I think the idea is to sign Hayward this year which hopefully helps us sign another good free agent next year.
I wanted to tank one more season , but MJ hates that.


I agree that seems to be the plan. But signing a FA will be tougher to if you guys do the Batum stretch.

Read on Twitter


Hopefully the stretch doesn’t happen but was just reported to show ainge we aren’t at his mercy. I bet he wishes he took that turner deal


I’ll stake out my position right now that this is not in fact genius in any general or specific way.

Like what does Boston lose if Charlotte can’t just sign Hayward? He’s leaving. What leverage does Mitch gain by floating that he’s not good at his job?
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#115 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:56 am

Diop wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Diop wrote:I think the idea is to sign Hayward this year which hopefully helps us sign another good free agent next year.
I wanted to tank one more season , but MJ hates that.


I agree that seems to be the plan. But signing a FA will be tougher to if you guys do the Batum stretch.

Read on Twitter


Hopefully the stretch doesn’t happen but was just reported to show ainge we aren’t at his mercy. I bet he wishes he took that turner deal

that gives way too much credit to the guy that just gave Hayward $120M without the cap space to do it :lol:
I really hate this team
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#116 » by Diop » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:59 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Diop wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
I agree that seems to be the plan. But signing a FA will be tougher to if you guys do the Batum stretch.

Read on Twitter


Hopefully the stretch doesn’t happen but was just reported to show ainge we aren’t at his mercy. I bet he wishes he took that turner deal


I’ll stake out my position right now that this is not in fact genius in any general or specific way.

Like what does Boston lose if Charlotte can’t just sign Hayward? He’s leaving. What leverage does Mitch gain by floating that he’s not good at his job?

Yeah I’m not a fan of calling him genius, but I did like the suggestion that the stretch report is just a bluff
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#117 » by Diop » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:59 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Diop wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
I agree that seems to be the plan. But signing a FA will be tougher to if you guys do the Batum stretch.

Read on Twitter


Hopefully the stretch doesn’t happen but was just reported to show ainge we aren’t at his mercy. I bet he wishes he took that turner deal


I’ll stake out my position right now that this is not in fact genius in any general or specific way.

Like what does Boston lose if Charlotte can’t just sign Hayward? He’s leaving. What leverage does Mitch gain by floating that he’s not good at his job?

Yeah I’m not a fan of calling him genius, but I did like the suggestion that the stretch report is just a bluff
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#118 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:01 am

Diop wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Diop wrote:I think the idea is to sign Hayward this year which hopefully helps us sign another good free agent next year.
I wanted to tank one more season , but MJ hates that.


I agree that seems to be the plan. But signing a FA will be tougher to if you guys do the Batum stretch.

Read on Twitter


Hopefully the stretch doesn’t happen but was just reported to show ainge we aren’t at his mercy. I bet he wishes he took that turner deal


I definitely agree that the Batum stretch is a warning shot at Ainge haha. A S&T makes the most sense for both parties but MJ doesn't want Ainge getting cute with him.

But at the same time, a S&T does need to make sense for us too. If we take back Rozier that's big multi year salary and the TPE we'd get is only like $9M in that case. And using the TPE this year isn't even possible because we're hard-capped after the TT signing and along with Rozier we'd be up near it.

I could maybe see something like this...

Theis, Semi Ojeleye, Carsen Edwards, Jevonte Green to CHA for Cody Zeller. That saves you guys the cap-space and gets an upgrade at center. For us that works as a standalone trade.

Then you do the Hayward to CHA as a S&T so BOS gets the full TPE as their incentive for taking on the extra money for Zeller over Theis.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#119 » by jayjaysee » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:04 am

I can’t think of a team that actually would want Rozier at this point in the offseason?

Boston want Beverley?
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#120 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:10 am

jayjaysee wrote:I can’t think of a team that actually would want Rozier at this point in the offseason?

Boston want Beverley?


I think we'd take him even if just to flip him elsewhere, which should be doable.

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