[Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward

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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#141 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:41 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:The minute we suggested we will stretch Batum (9 million isn't going to prevent us from adding players considering our massive cap space next season and moving forward), Ainge is facing the loss of 30 million in usable cap space.


We won't be adding any value in a sign-and-trade.


How is the 30M TPE a thing though? You guys have to send send out Batum, Rozier or Zeller. If we take Rozier back it’s just a $12M tpe that we can’t even use this year because of hard cap. I don’t think that TPE would be incentive enough to take Rozier.

I think a TPE would have to be 3 teams to pull some other players in. I don’t see the guys CHA giving up creating a positive outcome for Boston. Him walking for nothing seems better than what you guys send back to make the room.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#142 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:43 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Surely losing 9m cap a year cannot be good.


Losing 30 million in usable cap cannot be better.


I think that cap number is off, based off the qualifier useful. With Boston's hard cap triggered, they would have considerable less space, and it would only be useable in a trade.

But far more than that, I do not think Charlotte is at a place they should be hurting themselves to spite Boston.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#143 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:49 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:The minute we suggested we will stretch Batum (9 million isn't going to prevent us from adding players considering our massive cap space next season and moving forward), Ainge is facing the loss of 30 million in usable cap space.


We won't be adding any value in a sign-and-trade.


How is the 30M TPE a thing though? You guys have to send send out Batum, Rozier or Zeller. If we take Rozier back it’s just a $12M tpe that we can’t even use this year because of hard cap. I don’t think that TPE would be incentive enough to take Rozier.

I think a TPE would have to be 3 teams to pull some other players in. I don’t see the guys CHA giving up creating a positive outcome for Boston. Him walking for nothing seems better than what you guys send back to make the room.


We can send Batum and you can use the space or lose the space. Maybe we attach the 2021 Nets pick since you'd be on the hook for 27 million.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#144 » by amcoolio » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:50 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:The minute we suggested we will stretch Batum (9 million isn't going to prevent us from adding players considering our massive cap space next season and moving forward), Ainge is facing the loss of 30 million in usable cap space.


We won't be adding any value in a sign-and-trade.


How is the 30M TPE a thing though? You guys have to send send out Batum, Rozier or Zeller. If we take Rozier back it’s just a $12M tpe that we can’t even use this year because of hard cap. I don’t think that TPE would be incentive enough to take Rozier.

I think a TPE would have to be 3 teams to pull some other players in. I don’t see the guys CHA giving up creating a positive outcome for Boston. Him walking for nothing seems better than what you guys send back to make the room.


We can send Batum and you can use the space or lose the space. Maybe we attach the 2021 Nets pick since you'd be on the hook for 27 million.


Boston isn't entertaining that. The best case is flipping Horford back to Boston and Batum to OKC, and Charlotte adding a heavily protected 1st for OKC.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#145 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:50 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Surely losing 9m cap a year cannot be good.


Losing 30 million in usable cap cannot be better.


I think that cap number is off, based off the qualifier useful. With Boston's hard cap triggered, they would have considerable less space, and it would only be useable in a trade.

But far more than that, I do not think Charlotte is at a place they should be hurting themselves to spite Boston.


We're not a free agent destination. We have Hayward and Rozier long term and the rest is open space. We won't feel the 9 million missing cap whatsoever. Boston will feel their missing cap.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#146 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:52 pm

amcoolio wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
How is the 30M TPE a thing though? You guys have to send send out Batum, Rozier or Zeller. If we take Rozier back it’s just a $12M tpe that we can’t even use this year because of hard cap. I don’t think that TPE would be incentive enough to take Rozier.

I think a TPE would have to be 3 teams to pull some other players in. I don’t see the guys CHA giving up creating a positive outcome for Boston. Him walking for nothing seems better than what you guys send back to make the room.


We can send Batum and you can use the space or lose the space. Maybe we attach the 2021 Nets pick since you'd be on the hook for 27 million.


Boston isn't entertaining that. The best case is flipping Horford back to Boston and Batum to OKC, and Charlotte adding a heavily protected 1st for OKC.


I don't care what they're entertaining. Kupchak is a great drafter. He's not valuing 9 million cap > draft capital of any kind when we're not a free agent destination.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#147 » by amcoolio » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:54 pm

Mitch needs to lose his job if he stretches Batum, there is no excuse for it. We have movable salaries and expirings. You absolutely move a 1st round pick before taking a 3 year/27 million dead cap charge.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#148 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:57 pm

amcoolio wrote:Mitch needs to lose his job if he stretches Batum, there is no excuse for it. We have movable salaries and expirings. You absolutely move a 1st round pick before taking a 3 year/27 million dead cap charge.


We disagree on the value of 9 million cap vs. draft capital given our cap situation. We agree Kupchak should be able to move Rozier + Zeller somewhere without attaching assets.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#149 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:01 pm

amcoolio wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
How is the 30M TPE a thing though? You guys have to send send out Batum, Rozier or Zeller. If we take Rozier back it’s just a $12M tpe that we can’t even use this year because of hard cap. I don’t think that TPE would be incentive enough to take Rozier.

I think a TPE would have to be 3 teams to pull some other players in. I don’t see the guys CHA giving up creating a positive outcome for Boston. Him walking for nothing seems better than what you guys send back to make the room.


We can send Batum and you can use the space or lose the space. Maybe we attach the 2021 Nets pick since you'd be on the hook for 27 million.


Boston isn't entertaining that. The best case is flipping Horford back to Boston and Batum to OKC, and Charlotte adding a heavily protected 1st for OKC.


I don't think that works for Boston after the Thompson signing. We have about $15-17M to add under the luxury tax after signing TT. I can't see us making any move that pushes us over the tax line.

Any TPE we get is reduced by what we take back. So if we're taking back more salary than that and going into the tax then the TPE we're getting isn't even all that much. And we'd be handicapped after Thompson signing so can't use it until next year anyway.

Deal that makes the most sense to me is you guys sending one of Rozier/Batum/Zeller (first two more likely than last one) to a 3rd team for a player you guys like more as a player but who makes less than the guy you're sending out. That would cost a draft pick to do though and for the TPE, Boston would pay the draft pick cost.

Based on the guys you'd have to send out I don't see a S&T where we take back the salary from you guys as feasible. It just doesn't line up right IMO.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#150 » by yosemiteben » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:14 pm

I cannot be convinced that stretching Batum is anything but a complete failure of roster management. I continue to believe it was a bluff and not a truly viable option, but we'll see. It's an incredible waste of resources.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#151 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:16 pm

yosemiteben wrote:I cannot be convinced that stretching Batum is anything but a complete failure of roster management. I continue to believe it was a bluff and not a truly viable option, but we'll see. It's an incredible waste of resources.

complete failure of roster management is par for the course so let's see
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#152 » by pipfan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:35 pm

I think this works
Batum to Chic
Hayward and TYoung to Char (they have cap space)
Sato to Bos

Bos gets a strong bench piece and uses their cap space better-and gets a TPE

Char doesn't have to stretch Batum and TYoung can help them (he might start there)

Bulls would need assets to do it, but they do save the buyouts next summer, creating more cap space. Plus, TYoung was unhappy in Chic. Hate to lose Sato-he is useful if boring.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#153 » by BullyKing » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:39 pm

Batum and Zeller for Tobias Harris
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#154 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:40 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
Losing 30 million in usable cap cannot be better.


I think that cap number is off, based off the qualifier useful. With Boston's hard cap triggered, they would have considerable less space, and it would only be useable in a trade.

But far more than that, I do not think Charlotte is at a place they should be hurting themselves to spite Boston.


We're not a free agent destination. We have Hayward and Rozier long term and the rest is open space. We won't feel the 9 million missing cap whatsoever. Boston will feel their missing cap.


Seems silly to think that cap space doesn't have value later, especially as someone asking for the moon for absorbing Westbrook into... cap space.

But you missed the bigger issue.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#155 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:42 pm

BullyKing wrote:Batum and Zeller for Tobias Harris


Are you okay?
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#156 » by BullyKing » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:45 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
BullyKing wrote:Batum and Zeller for Tobias Harris


Are you okay?


You don't want more competition in the max space market next offseason?
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#157 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:49 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
I think that cap number is off, based off the qualifier useful. With Boston's hard cap triggered, they would have considerable less space, and it would only be useable in a trade.

But far more than that, I do not think Charlotte is at a place they should be hurting themselves to spite Boston.


We're not a free agent destination. We have Hayward and Rozier long term and the rest is open space. We won't feel the 9 million missing cap whatsoever. Boston will feel their missing cap.


Seems silly to think that cap space doesn't have value later, especially as someone asking for the moon for absorbing Westbrook into... cap space.

But you missed the bigger issue.


Not really a comparison that makes sense.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#158 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:50 pm

Basically whatever the Hornets choose to do is always the right decision--I mean just look at their track record.
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#159 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:52 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Basically whatever the Hornets choose to do is always the right decision--I mean just look at their track record.


Basically our GM is a 5-time Championship GM, acquired Pay Gasol for nothin. Is there a different track record we should be made aware of? And how is that Kemba contract working out for the Celtics?
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Re: [Woj] Charlotte throws way too much money at Gordon Hayward 

Post#160 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:53 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Basically whatever the Hornets choose to do is always the right decision--I mean just look at their track record.


Basically our GM is a 5-time Championship GM, acquired Pay Gasol for nothin. Is there a different track record we should be made aware of? And how is that Kemba contract working out for the Celtics?


You failed hard at making this about me lol. And failed even harder calling Marc Gasol nothing.
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