Top 3 worst & best GMs

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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#21 » by R-DAWG » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:07 pm

DeathLineup wrote:
R-DAWG wrote:In terms of the best GM's you need to look at overall body of work:

RC Buford remains in the drives seat based of what he has done during his long tenure in San Antonio.

I have to include Danny Ainge in the conversation, but most of this is based on the KG/Pierce trade - I have been underwhelmed in how he used his assets to get this team that went to 3/4 Eastern Conference Finals over the top - but he still made 3 out of 4 Eastern Conference Finals and has Tatum/Brown to build around.

Pat Riley and Andy Ellisburg is Miami and Donny Nelson in Dallas continue to operate at a very high level - at the blink of an eye, both teams have transitioned from the best players in their franchises history - Wade and Dirk - to teams on the rise with a ton of future flexibility.

Sean Marks should be up here as well. He inherited a situation as glim as any in the history of the league, and within 3 years had a playoff team with a young all-star -D'Angelo Russell - and a stable of young guys that were solid role players with some upside in LeVert, Allen, Harris and Dinwiddie. Combine that with all draft picks and cap space to add two difference making max slots, there is nothing short of remarkable with the job he has done. We all get excited on the upside of future draft picks - but players with a track record acquired with limited asset flexibility is more remarkable.

And closing this out we have to mention Leon Rose. By doing nothing, he has had the most successful Knicks offseason in recent memory.

Well you said to look at the overall body of work. It's funny that you didn't mention Myers who has brought championships to the Bay these last few years.

By no means I'm saying Myers is a top 3 GM. You can check my previous post to see my list. But based on your reasonings, Myers should be high on your list.


That's an oversight, and I'm sure not the only one.

Darryl Morey can be included on this list, although the last few years - likely because of restrictions from his owner - haven't been great.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#22 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:21 pm

ThatBoyNick wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Sixers have a legit entry for both.


We need some rules for this thread lol, are we counting presidents like Morey/Riley? Or are we sticking to the actual GMs?


I would count the person assumed to be making the decisions
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#23 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:26 pm

Riley still probably the best.
Ujiri
Presti/Morey/?
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GM 

Post#24 » by ayyayyron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:03 pm

Sactowndog wrote:
ayyayyron wrote:In no particular order, Daryl Morey, Rob Pelinka, and Sam Presti are the top 3.

Also in no particular order, Elton Brand, Vlade Divac, and whoever Chicago's GM is are the bottom 3. Yeah I'm counting Divac because there's no way I could rank bad GMs and not include him.


While I agree with Divac, I’m starting to like the Kings GM. First when Mil tried to screw him and Bogi by changing deal so they could get Jrue Holiday, he let Bogi and his agent do the dirty work.

Then he didn’t flinch while the Lakers and Atlanta tried to take Bogi for nothing, held his fire and found a win-win deal with Indiana. Kings may finally have a real GM.


You're right. Sacramento deserves a good GM and it's nice that they finally have one
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#25 » by JasonStern » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:07 pm

Daryl Morey just crippled the Rockets franchise for years to come by trading several picks for Westbrook, meanwhile Pat Riley just put together ANOTHER team that made the Finals. And yet everyone doesn't view Riley as one of the GOATs, but instead puts Morey ahead of him? :crazy:

"Yeah those championship rings are cool and all, but Morey and Presti have Excel spreadsheets"
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#26 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:15 pm

JasonStern wrote:Daryl Morey just crippled the Rockets franchise for years to come by trading several picks for Westbrook, meanwhile Pat Riley just put together ANOTHER team that made the Finals. And yet everyone doesn't view Riley as one of the GOATs, but instead puts Morey ahead of him? :crazy:

"Yeah those championship rings are cool and all, but Morey and Presti have Excel spreadsheets"


Almost everyone believes Westbrook was an ownership/Harden decision. Which makes sense considering Westbrook is the oppposite of Moreyball and he walked away after the season.

I don't have that as a disqualifying mark for Morey.

Now I do have Riley as the best. But he also has South Beach and Morey had 300% humidity.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#27 » by JasonStern » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:24 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
JasonStern wrote:Daryl Morey just crippled the Rockets franchise for years to come by trading several picks for Westbrook, meanwhile Pat Riley just put together ANOTHER team that made the Finals. And yet everyone doesn't view Riley as one of the GOATs, but instead puts Morey ahead of him? :crazy:

"Yeah those championship rings are cool and all, but Morey and Presti have Excel spreadsheets"


Almost everyone believes Westbrook was an ownership/Harden decision. Which makes sense considering Westbrook is the oppposite of Moreyball and he walked away after the season.

I don't have that as a disqualifying mark for Morey.

Now I do have Riley as the best. But he also has South Beach and Morey had 300% humidity.


Right. Morey and Presti get a pass for every mistake on their watch because it's the owners' fault.
"OWNERSHIP chose Perkins over Harden!"
Meanwhile every GM under Jordan is terrible for doing his bidding.

Riley is only good because of his location, but Pelinka is great because the Lakers attract free agents.

The stat nerds are overrated on RealGM. Despite having 3 MVPs and Hall of Famers in Paul and Howard, the two have combined for exactly one Finals appearance. Wake me when those 2027 protected 1sts they keep acquiring actually win something.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#28 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:28 pm

JasonStern wrote:Daryl Morey just crippled the Rockets franchise for years to come by trading several picks for Westbrook, meanwhile Pat Riley just put together ANOTHER team that made the Finals. And yet everyone doesn't view Riley as one of the GOATs, but instead puts Morey ahead of him? :crazy:

"Yeah those championship rings are cool and all, but Morey and Presti have Excel spreadsheets"

Don't think many GMs are going to get GOAT credit for a championship with Lebron on their team. Did Riley draft Wade knowing he would be a HOF player with HOF fame friends? Not saying Riley did nothing but a lot of GMs get titles under those factors.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#29 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:35 pm

JasonStern wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
JasonStern wrote:Daryl Morey just crippled the Rockets franchise for years to come by trading several picks for Westbrook, meanwhile Pat Riley just put together ANOTHER team that made the Finals. And yet everyone doesn't view Riley as one of the GOATs, but instead puts Morey ahead of him? :crazy:

"Yeah those championship rings are cool and all, but Morey and Presti have Excel spreadsheets"


Almost everyone believes Westbrook was an ownership/Harden decision. Which makes sense considering Westbrook is the oppposite of Moreyball and he walked away after the season.

I don't have that as a disqualifying mark for Morey.

Now I do have Riley as the best. But he also has South Beach and Morey had 300% humidity.


Right. Morey and Presti get a pass for every mistake on their watch because it's the owners' fault.
"OWNERSHIP chose Perkins over Harden!"
Meanwhile every GM under Jordan is terrible for doing his bidding.

Riley is only good because of his location, but Pelinka is great because the Lakers attract free agents.

The stat nerds are overrated on RealGM. Despite having 3 MVPs and Hall of Famers in Paul and Howard, the two have combined for exactly one Finals appearance. Wake me when those 2027 protected 1sts they keep acquiring actually win something.



I mean none of that is what I'm saying, but you also have your mind made up. I'd also prefer we don't do straw men, but I mean.

I give Presti credit right now because he's doing incredible work. But ask our Thunder fans how much criticism I have given him over the years. But he's been killing it for the past 3 years and so I'm going to have to acknowledge the good just like I took issue with the bad.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#30 » by JasonStern » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:36 pm

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:
JasonStern wrote:Daryl Morey just crippled the Rockets franchise for years to come by trading several picks for Westbrook, meanwhile Pat Riley just put together ANOTHER team that made the Finals. And yet everyone doesn't view Riley as one of the GOATs, but instead puts Morey ahead of him? :crazy:

"Yeah those championship rings are cool and all, but Morey and Presti have Excel spreadsheets"

Don't think many GMs are going to get GOAT credit for a championship with Lebron on their team. Did Riley draft Wade knowing he would be a HOF player with HOF fame friends? Not saying Riley did nothing but a lot of GMs get titles under those factors.


You realize Riley and Wade won a championship in 2006, well before LeBron, right?
If doing what Riley did is so easy, why is Golden State the only team that has done something even remotely similar?

"Did Riley draft Wade knowing he would be a HOF player with HOF fame friends? "

What does that even mean? So Riley should get no credit for drafting Wade, but Presti should get credit for Durant, Harden, and Westbrook? The hypocrisy in how some people evaluate different GMs makes my head hurt.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#31 » by TPV » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:03 pm

I think the three best are Ujiri, Presti and Ainge. I believe that all three would exceed/have exceeded in any type of situation. Whether it's rebuilding, retooling, building a contender without a superstar, or building one with a superstar. All three are above average at drafting, they don't sign players to bad contracts, and more importantly, they rarely ever lose trades. Drafts can be an inexact science, free agency - you're usually at the mercy of the market, but outside of salary cap deals/player trade demands trades are basically in the team's control.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#32 » by _qubik » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:10 pm

Top 3
-Pat Riley - Myth, pulls the trigger and bang, you got a contender
-Buford - Almost 20 years of excellence
-Donnie Nelson - Made the Mavs relevant all his tenure, with or without Dirk - The future seems brighter

Worts 3
-Kupchak - The tweet on this thread says everything
-Troy Weaver - Signed all the centers avaiable
-Gar Forman - Backwards RC Buford
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#33 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:23 pm

ThatBoyNick wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Sixers have a legit entry for both.


We need some rules for this thread lol, are we counting presidents like Morey/Riley? Or are we sticking to the actual GMs?


The latter would make little sense.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#34 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:27 pm

Somebody pointed out recently that Riley's hits with Bam and Herro are more impressive than the first seem, in that he traded away a bunch of picks and hence didn't have many draft misses for a while.

Morey needs to be marked way down for Westbrook.

Presti had 3 MVPs at once and didn't win a championship, which suggests he misfired on his coaching hire(s).

GS is hard to judge because we don't know how much of that was West.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#35 » by simonbampfield » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:39 am

With so many new FOs the worst list is difficult. Not going to list a GM in the best/worst that has only been there since last year so it takes out a lot of the field that has been in the bottom few.

Top 3 Best in no particular order
Masai - Built championship and underrated move of signing one of the best coaches, perhaps in history when all said and done.
Riley - Doesn't stay down long at all. Continually reinvents the Heat and builds champions.
Myers - 3 championships and 5 finals appearances. Importantly he saw an opportunity this season to bottom out. Also not an easy thing to keep the types of characters they've had over the years all in check.

Top 3 Worst in no particular order
Kupchak - Whether it's MJ signing these contracts or not, it's on your watch.
Perry - Looking up this off-season but the fact is you have to get off this list.
Altman - Still rebuilding, but same justification as above. You have to get yourself off this list.

There are a number of GMs that could force their way onto both of these lists by the end of this coming season. Some might go onto the bottom 3 list due to treadmilling and top 3 for team building/success.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#36 » by VDT » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:03 am

It is hard to evaluate the GMs. Luck, francyjse location and ownership often play too much of a role in how successful a GM is.

Presti did nothing with Durant, Harden and Westbrook, then gave Westbrook a terrible contract and was saved from this only because of what happened in Houston.

Masai was able to get out if the treadmill for one year only due to a 1 in 100 years occasion.

Morey did some bad moves in his last year in Houston.

Riley gave some terrible contracts in the post Lebron era and it is hard to say how much the Lebron era was his doing.

Thats not to say that these guys are not good but things are more complicated a lot of the times.
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Re: Top 3 worst & best GMs 

Post#37 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:10 am

Not necessarily saying that they're top 3, but Morey, Ainge and Riley have always been impressive to me in that each has managed to build teams that have had realistic chances at titles without bottoming out. Morey's Rockets never missed the playoffs I don't think. Ainge and Riley have each had some high picks but both also built ECF type teams without a top lottery pick being a main part of it. As a fan I think those guys deserve ton of credit for that because it's been a good ride for fans of those teams.

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