The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas?

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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#61 » by Ell Curry » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:03 am

pacers33granger wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:TJ Warren + Jeremy Lamb + Edmond Summer

For

Kyle Lowry + pick (haggle over the pick)


Pacers are already starting Aaron Holiday in place of Warren, so why not Lowry, and move Aaron Holiday back to the bench

Raptors buy low on Warren and Lamb, and get a small prospect in Sumner


You'd need to start by swinging Warren somewhere for value to Toronto. Then have us give the pick. If no one would give up much for Warren we'd probably have to exchange Sumner for Aaron or Goga. Not that we would or should, but that's what it would likely take. Toronto doesn't care about Warren or Lamb in this scenario so we're not providing them really any value.


I wouldn't be sure that Toronto isn't into Warren. We need scoring badly and if Warren is the only salary the Raps take on for this summer (say Lamb goes to Philly for Mike Scott, Terrance Ferguson and the Knicks 2021 2nd rounder Philly owns), the Raps would still about 22M left and could keep Boucher and spend 15M on a starting center like Drummond (50 over 3 years with raises seems low but who knows what his market is or if he wants to stay in Cleveland) or a Zach Collins RFA offer, and run this out:

Center/Boucher
Siakam/Warren
OG/Warren
Davis/Thomas
VanVleet/Flynn

as a 9 man rotation, with the 2021 1st rounder and Paul Watson hopefully developing into cheap rotation guys too. Could close games with OG-Siakam-Warren-VanVleet and switch up the 5th based on matchups or who's hot, probably ideally Boucher, Davis or Watson.
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#62 » by mademan » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:06 am

Ell Curry wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:TJ Warren + Jeremy Lamb + Edmond Summer

For

Kyle Lowry + pick (haggle over the pick)


Pacers are already starting Aaron Holiday in place of Warren, so why not Lowry, and move Aaron Holiday back to the bench

Raptors buy low on Warren and Lamb, and get a small prospect in Sumner


You'd need to start by swinging Warren somewhere for value to Toronto. Then have us give the pick. If no one would give up much for Warren we'd probably have to exchange Sumner for Aaron or Goga. Not that we would or should, but that's what it would likely take. Toronto doesn't care about Warren or Lamb in this scenario so we're not providing them really any value.


I wouldn't be sure that Toronto isn't into Warren. We need scoring badly and if Warren is the only salary the Raps take on for this summer (say Lamb goes to Philly for Mike Scott, Terrance Ferguson and the Knicks 2021 2nd rounder Philly owns), the Raps would still about 22M left and could keep Boucher and spend 15M on a starting center like Drummond (50 over 3 years with raises seems low but who knows what his market is or if he wants to stay in Cleveland) or a Zach Collins RFA offer, and run this out:

Center/Boucher
Siakam/Warren
OG/Warren
Davis/Thomas
VanVleet/Flynn

as a 9 man rotation, with the 2021 1st rounder and Paul Watson hopefully developing into cheap rotation guys too. Could close games with OG-Siakam-Warren-VanVleet and switch up the 5th based on matchups or who's hot, probably ideally Boucher, Davis or Watson.


Raps are gonna be hitting a rebuild. If Lowry's going out, theyre not gonna want Warren, who will be on a 1 year contract when he comes back (assuming he doesnt return this season). Doesnt seem like the correct direction for the Raps if theyre moving Kyle
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#63 » by Ell Curry » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:40 am

mademan wrote:Raps are gonna be hitting a rebuild. If Lowry's going out, theyre not gonna want Warren, who will be on a 1 year contract when he comes back (assuming he doesnt return this season). Doesnt seem like the correct direction for the Raps if theyre moving Kyle


We really have no idea whether Masai wants to rebuild or retool. He might look at Siakam/OG/VanVleet as 3 solid starters, Boucher/Watson/Davis/Thomas/Flynn as a nice bench and think that Lowry, Norm and the cap space can bring back 2 starters and we can keep drafting and developing talent.

if the Raps really want to tank, they might as well trade Van Vleet and Siakam and just build around OG, Davis and Flynn as starters.
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#64 » by Topofthekey » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:42 am

Yenrallik1111 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Wait why are the Raptors giving the best player, taking on a bad contract and giving up a pick exactly? Especially since Warren is injured.

I'm confused.

Was Lamb also a bad contract when he averaged 13/4/2 off the bench last season?

That's the concept of buying low. Lamb wouldn't be given away like this once he's back and playing again


there has been debate on here that Lowry's "imminent drop off" is coming and the past is the past. So to that tune, Lamb has done nothing of serious impact in the league, and it is quite irrelevant what he did last year. it only matters what he can do moving forward. the type of injury and how it could effect him is another point to note (I am not informed of his injury status). now if you gave me a 5 year sample of his stats to show his level of play and consistency then maybe you start to have an argument. with that said, adding the pick to Lowry is laughable, the proposed package is very laughable, and you calling it buying low? delusional, truly a very poor offer. Lowry on the pacers makes no sense either as the pacers are not in any serious playoff discussion.

I mean, if you feel the proposed package is laughable, there's really not much room for discussion
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#65 » by mademan » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:46 am

Topofthekey wrote:
Yenrallik1111 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Was Lamb also a bad contract when he averaged 13/4/2 off the bench last season?

That's the concept of buying low. Lamb wouldn't be given away like this once he's back and playing again


there has been debate on here that Lowry's "imminent drop off" is coming and the past is the past. So to that tune, Lamb has done nothing of serious impact in the league, and it is quite irrelevant what he did last year. it only matters what he can do moving forward. the type of injury and how it could effect him is another point to note (I am not informed of his injury status). now if you gave me a 5 year sample of his stats to show his level of play and consistency then maybe you start to have an argument. with that said, adding the pick to Lowry is laughable, the proposed package is very laughable, and you calling it buying low? delusional, truly a very poor offer. Lowry on the pacers makes no sense either as the pacers are not in any serious playoff discussion.

I mean, if you feel the proposed package is laughable, there's really not much room for discussion


you have the Raps trading the best player, getting back 2 injured guys with Warren coming off surgery and giving up a pick for the pleasure. It is laughable
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#66 » by mademan » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:47 am

Ell Curry wrote:
mademan wrote:Raps are gonna be hitting a rebuild. If Lowry's going out, theyre not gonna want Warren, who will be on a 1 year contract when he comes back (assuming he doesnt return this season). Doesnt seem like the correct direction for the Raps if theyre moving Kyle


We really have no idea whether Masai wants to rebuild or retool. He might look at Siakam/OG/VanVleet as 3 solid starters, Boucher/Watson/Davis/Thomas/Flynn as a nice bench and think that Lowry, Norm and the cap space can bring back 2 starters and we can keep drafting and developing talent.

if the Raps really want to tank, they might as well trade Van Vleet and Siakam and just build around OG, Davis and Flynn as starters.


Regardless of what direction the raps take, a cost controlled pick is better long term for them if Lowry is going out than a guy who'll likely be in a contract year the next time he suits up (could be wrong here, dont know how bad Warren's injury is)
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#67 » by Topofthekey » Wed Jan 6, 2021 1:01 am

mademan wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Yenrallik1111 wrote:
there has been debate on here that Lowry's "imminent drop off" is coming and the past is the past. So to that tune, Lamb has done nothing of serious impact in the league, and it is quite irrelevant what he did last year. it only matters what he can do moving forward. the type of injury and how it could effect him is another point to note (I am not informed of his injury status). now if you gave me a 5 year sample of his stats to show his level of play and consistency then maybe you start to have an argument. with that said, adding the pick to Lowry is laughable, the proposed package is very laughable, and you calling it buying low? delusional, truly a very poor offer. Lowry on the pacers makes no sense either as the pacers are not in any serious playoff discussion.

I mean, if you feel the proposed package is laughable, there's really not much room for discussion


you have the Raps trading the best player, getting back 2 injured guys with Warren coming off surgery and giving up a pick for the pleasure. It is laughable

Consensus in the earlier pages is that Lowry is worth a late 1st and a small prospect

A healthy Warren is worth a late 1st, and Sumner is a small prospect. The proposal falls within the parameters set by previous discussions, but sure, if you feel it's laughable, you are entitled to your take on it

As I said, I don't expect the Pacers to be interested in the proposal (in its original form). There is no reason for Pacers to sell low on Warren or Lamb. The purpose of the proposal was to establish a floor for subsequent discussions. I'm sorry it didn't work for you


EDIT:
In case you forgot

mademan wrote:I think 1 decent 1st (like in the 15ish range) or a late 1st+meh prospect should be the going rate. Tho if Raps keep losing, they might have a firesale where he goes just for any 2021 1st.

I think Raps should trade him, personally. I think theyve gone as high as they could and the only reason they might not be 1 of the worst teams in the league this year is cause of Lowry. I saw a stat where he was the only + through the first 3 games of the season (where Raps went 0-3), which is impressive as chit
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#68 » by JRoy » Wed Jan 6, 2021 2:16 am

He’d look good on LAC, DAL or PHI in my opinion. Even ORL.

The hard part is putting together a package that works for both sides.
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#69 » by Ell Curry » Wed Jan 6, 2021 2:41 am

Topofthekey wrote:
mademan wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:I mean, if you feel the proposed package is laughable, there's really not much room for discussion


you have the Raps trading the best player, getting back 2 injured guys with Warren coming off surgery and giving up a pick for the pleasure. It is laughable

Consensus in the earlier pages is that Lowry is worth a late 1st and a small prospect

A healthy Warren is worth a late 1st, and Sumner is a small prospect. The proposal falls within the parameters set by previous discussions, but sure, if you feel it's laughable, you are entitled to your take on it

As I said, I don't expect the Pacers to be interested in the proposal (in its original form). There is no reason for Pacers to sell low on Warren or Lamb. The purpose of the proposal was to establish a floor for subsequent discussions. I'm sorry it didn't work for you


EDIT:
In case you forgot

mademan wrote:I think 1 decent 1st (like in the 15ish range) or a late 1st+meh prospect should be the going rate. Tho if Raps keep losing, they might have a firesale where he goes just for any 2021 1st.

I think Raps should trade him, personally. I think theyve gone as high as they could and the only reason they might not be 1 of the worst teams in the league this year is cause of Lowry. I saw a stat where he was the only + through the first 3 games of the season (where Raps went 0-3), which is impressive as chit


A late 1st and a small prospect isn't enough for Lowry, I don't think. It should be a middle first, even in this draft, or the equivalent of them. Warren and a late first sounds right to me.
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#70 » by mademan » Wed Jan 6, 2021 2:46 am

Topofthekey wrote:
mademan wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:I mean, if you feel the proposed package is laughable, there's really not much room for discussion


you have the Raps trading the best player, getting back 2 injured guys with Warren coming off surgery and giving up a pick for the pleasure. It is laughable

Consensus in the earlier pages is that Lowry is worth a late 1st and a small prospect

A healthy Warren is worth a late 1st, and Sumner is a small prospect. The proposal falls within the parameters set by previous discussions, but sure, if you feel it's laughable, you are entitled to your take on it

As I said, I don't expect the Pacers to be interested in the proposal (in its original form). There is no reason for Pacers to sell low on Warren or Lamb. The purpose of the proposal was to establish a floor for subsequent discussions. I'm sorry it didn't work for you


EDIT:
In case you forgot

mademan wrote:I think 1 decent 1st (like in the 15ish range) or a late 1st+meh prospect should be the going rate. Tho if Raps keep losing, they might have a firesale where he goes just for any 2021 1st.

I think Raps should trade him, personally. I think theyve gone as high as they could and the only reason they might not be 1 of the worst teams in the league this year is cause of Lowry. I saw a stat where he was the only + through the first 3 games of the season (where Raps went 0-3), which is impressive as chit


I mean if you can get a late 1st in a 3 teamer for Warren, go for it. But Raps arent gonna wanna do that work, and you had the Raps giving up a pick as well
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#71 » by Yenrallik1111 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 2:56 am

Topofthekey wrote:
mademan wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:I mean, if you feel the proposed package is laughable, there's really not much room for discussion


you have the Raps trading the best player, getting back 2 injured guys with Warren coming off surgery and giving up a pick for the pleasure. It is laughable

Consensus in the earlier pages is that Lowry is worth a late 1st and a small prospect

A healthy Warren is worth a late 1st, and Sumner is a small prospect. The proposal falls within the parameters set by previous discussions, but sure, if you feel it's laughable, you are entitled to your take on it

As I said, I don't expect the Pacers to be interested in the proposal (in its original form). There is no reason for Pacers to sell low on Warren or Lamb. The purpose of the proposal was to establish a floor for subsequent discussions. I'm sorry it didn't work for you


EDIT:
In case you forgot

mademan wrote:I think 1 decent 1st (like in the 15ish range) or a late 1st+meh prospect should be the going rate. Tho if Raps keep losing, they might have a firesale where he goes just for any 2021 1st.

I think Raps should trade him, personally. I think theyve gone as high as they could and the only reason they might not be 1 of the worst teams in the league this year is cause of Lowry. I saw a stat where he was the only + through the first 3 games of the season (where Raps went 0-3), which is impressive as chit


ya know, I apologize. I did not have to state my opinion in such a way. I still believe the value is off though. Oh and just because mademan gave his opinion on Lowry's value does not mean he is the authority. no disrespect to mademan. I guess I did not see this consensus
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#72 » by Mr Swagtastic » Wed Jan 6, 2021 3:36 am

Man some of these "offers" are insulting. Really Danny Green, Ferg, Scott and a extremely late pick is hot garbage. Danny Green sucks, Ferg is out of the league after his deal. Mike Scott is okay and the pick sucks. Any Philly deal includes Thybulle or Maxey or no deal.

James Johnson and Brunson also aren't going to get a deal done.
Lord Leoshes wrote:i personally would rather keep Chalmers over Lowry
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#73 » by Topofthekey » Wed Jan 6, 2021 4:21 am

Ell Curry wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
mademan wrote:
you have the Raps trading the best player, getting back 2 injured guys with Warren coming off surgery and giving up a pick for the pleasure. It is laughable

Consensus in the earlier pages is that Lowry is worth a late 1st and a small prospect

A healthy Warren is worth a late 1st, and Sumner is a small prospect. The proposal falls within the parameters set by previous discussions, but sure, if you feel it's laughable, you are entitled to your take on it

As I said, I don't expect the Pacers to be interested in the proposal (in its original form). There is no reason for Pacers to sell low on Warren or Lamb. The purpose of the proposal was to establish a floor for subsequent discussions. I'm sorry it didn't work for you


EDIT:
In case you forgot

mademan wrote:I think 1 decent 1st (like in the 15ish range) or a late 1st+meh prospect should be the going rate. Tho if Raps keep losing, they might have a firesale where he goes just for any 2021 1st.

I think Raps should trade him, personally. I think theyve gone as high as they could and the only reason they might not be 1 of the worst teams in the league this year is cause of Lowry. I saw a stat where he was the only + through the first 3 games of the season (where Raps went 0-3), which is impressive as chit


A late 1st and a small prospect isn't enough for Lowry, I don't think. It should be a middle first, even in this draft, or the equivalent of them. Warren and a late first sounds right to me.

Argue with the guy who set that parameter
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#74 » by Topofthekey » Wed Jan 6, 2021 4:28 am

mademan wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
mademan wrote:
you have the Raps trading the best player, getting back 2 injured guys with Warren coming off surgery and giving up a pick for the pleasure. It is laughable

Consensus in the earlier pages is that Lowry is worth a late 1st and a small prospect

A healthy Warren is worth a late 1st, and Sumner is a small prospect. The proposal falls within the parameters set by previous discussions, but sure, if you feel it's laughable, you are entitled to your take on it

As I said, I don't expect the Pacers to be interested in the proposal (in its original form). There is no reason for Pacers to sell low on Warren or Lamb. The purpose of the proposal was to establish a floor for subsequent discussions. I'm sorry it didn't work for you


EDIT:
In case you forgot

mademan wrote:I think 1 decent 1st (like in the 15ish range) or a late 1st+meh prospect should be the going rate. Tho if Raps keep losing, they might have a firesale where he goes just for any 2021 1st.

I think Raps should trade him, personally. I think theyve gone as high as they could and the only reason they might not be 1 of the worst teams in the league this year is cause of Lowry. I saw a stat where he was the only + through the first 3 games of the season (where Raps went 0-3), which is impressive as chit


I mean if you can get a late 1st in a 3 teamer for Warren, go for it. But Raps arent gonna wanna do that work, and you had the Raps giving up a pick as well

Sure, that I can understand

If you felt that Raptors would prefer a pick and Warren should be rerouted to a 3rd team, that is the sort of thing can get a discussion going. Which was what I was trying to accomplish

Anyway, I'm sorry the proposal didn't work for you
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#75 » by Bentley1225 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 4:41 am

Mr Swagtastic wrote:Man some of these "offers" are insulting. Really Danny Green, Ferg, Scott and a extremely late pick is hot garbage. Danny Green sucks, Ferg is out of the league after his deal. Mike Scott is okay and the pick sucks. Any Philly deal includes Thybulle or Maxey or no deal.

James Johnson and Brunson also aren't going to get a deal done.


Thybulle and the Philly 2021 1st gets it done (along with Bembry/Davis; Green/Scott/Fergusson)
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#76 » by RonaldArtest » Wed Jan 6, 2021 7:00 am

Bentley1225 wrote:
Mr Swagtastic wrote:Man some of these "offers" are insulting. Really Danny Green, Ferg, Scott and a extremely late pick is hot garbage. Danny Green sucks, Ferg is out of the league after his deal. Mike Scott is okay and the pick sucks. Any Philly deal includes Thybulle or Maxey or no deal.

James Johnson and Brunson also aren't going to get a deal done.


Thybulle and the Philly 2021 1st gets it done (along with Bembry/Davis; Green/Scott/Fergusson)

Swap Davis with McCaw or another piece and I think it looks fair.
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#77 » by babyjax13 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:01 am

What about Lowry for Oladipo + Lamb? Toronto gets a bit younger, Indiana gets a bit better in the short term and crosses their fingers that their bevvy of near top-end talent is enough to get them to the finals (could see it happening).
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#78 » by patman66 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:45 pm

babyjax13 wrote:What about Lowry for Oladipo + Lamb? Toronto gets a bit younger, Indiana gets a bit better in the short term and crosses their fingers that their bevvy of near top-end talent is enough to get them to the finals (could see it happening).


I think the pacers believe they can convince Dipo to play for a non tax paying team.
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#79 » by JediMasterRevan » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:58 pm

Lowry and James Johnson to Boston

Tim Hardaway Jr, Carson Edwards and a pick from Boston and Dallas to Toronto

Kemba Walker and Javonte Graham to Dallas

That work out?
Dallas gets another playmaker/shooter who is locked up longer than lowry.
Toronto doesnt take on any meaningful salary and shed salary immediately(10 million) gain a few late picks
Boston sheds long term salary of Kemba and brings in a savy vet Lowry to run point and hopefully sell him on resigning cheaper.

Kemba
Doncic
Richardson
FineySmith
KP

FVV
THJ
OG
Siakam
Baynes

Lowry
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Theis
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Re: The (un)official Lowry megathread: What is Lowry worth and trade ideas? 

Post#80 » by jimmy keys » Wed Jan 6, 2021 1:45 pm

Ell Curry wrote:What about a 3 way deal with the Pels, if they don't want to match a huge Lonzo deal and want cap space instead?

Raptors - Lonzo Ball, 15-20M in expirings from team X
Pelicans - Lowry
Team X - Eric Bledsoe

Add a pick or role players if you like, I'm just talking structure.

Pelicans get a Lowry-Hart-Ingram-Zion-Adams team (Redick, Hayes) and a ton of cap room this summer coming to keep Lowry or sign or trade for a guard who can shoot it.

Raptors spend their 30M or so left in free agency on matching a Ball offer and signing another young player with the leftover cash. VanVleet-Lonzo gives them 2 point guards but they're no longer short in the backcourt and hopefully a Ball-Siakam pick and roll can be the base of a good offense with OG, Van Vleet and the shooting big we still need (Maybe turn Norm Powell and a sweetener into a Miles Turner trade) projecting as a top 10 defense for years to come.

Potential Bledsoe teams:
Dinwiddie from BKN
Exum from Cleveland (they want to be good and they have their starting 5 + Nance and Osman off the bench, next logical player is a 6th man guard type)
Felicio + Temple from Chicago
Ariza from OKC if they think they can rehab Bledsoe's value and get a first for him next deadline, and he does seem to fit well with the SGA/Hill/Dort/Bagley/Horford group so it's not crazy.


I think the Pels make some sense, but I'd want other pieces.

Raptors - Contract filler from team X (doesn't have to be expirings), Alexander-Walker, NO 2021 FRP (top 10 protected)
Pelicans - Lowry, Davis II, Thomas
Team X - Eric Bledsoe, JJ Redick

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