Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard

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Harden deal DONE - your take? (You can select multiple options)

Harden My Heart - Nets win. You get a chance at a transformative player, you take it. Any real damage is years off, if ever, and in the meantime you are a legit contender.
28
22%
Home Dipo - Rockets win. The love affair was over, and in exchange they got a *good* win-now player in Oladipo (albeit expiring), plus 4 picks and 4 swaps. That's a plenty good salvage under the circumstances.
19
15%
Allen Key - Cavaliers win. They picked up their C of the future for taking one extra year of Taurean Prince and giving up a lame pick.
45
35%
LeVerting to the Mean - Pacers win. Oladipo is talented, but they got a good younger (and *cheaper*) player to keep growing with their core.
28
22%
Driving a Harden Bargain - Nobody wins. Harden won't help the Nets win anything, both Houston and Cleveland screwed up by giving up value for players they will still have to sign, and a rising Pacers team just got worse.
8
6%
 
Total votes: 128

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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#101 » by FNQ » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
gswhoops wrote:Is the consensus here that Houston is gonna just let Dipo walk? Or am I totally misreading this thread


They can't now, and Dipo (and his agent) know it. So they'll have buku money tied up in Wall, and now Dipo who from a medical standpoint has the more long-term worrisome injury.

They'll need continued health from those 2 as they enter their sunset - Wall faster than Dipo most likely due to skillset - so hopefully they construct the rest of the roster well. The Wood signing definitely a huge plus in that regard
They absolutely can let him walk lol the picks were the package he was a sweetener


So why'd they move Levert for him then? Didnt even get a pick back. If they wanted to dump salary, why not try and get expirings/1sts for Levert?
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#102 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:40 pm

Wolveswin wrote:Is it just me, or does anyone else want to see OKC or Pelicans swoop in and trade Rockets something for all that draft capital?

In near future we are going to see OKC and Pelicans draft well over 50% of the draftees.


Not coming from us. We have 2 Houston picks (and two swaps). They have enough picks right now, don't want to help them.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#103 » by Laimbeer » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:40 pm

Harden and Durant can both leave after next season. KD and Kyrie have question marks around their health. Those picks and swaps in the out years could be very good.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#104 » by K_chile22 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:41 pm

FNQ wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
They can't now, and Dipo (and his agent) know it. So they'll have buku money tied up in Wall, and now Dipo who from a medical standpoint has the more long-term worrisome injury.

They'll need continued health from those 2 as they enter their sunset - Wall faster than Dipo most likely due to skillset - so hopefully they construct the rest of the roster well. The Wood signing definitely a huge plus in that regard
They absolutely can let him walk lol the picks were the package he was a sweetener


So why'd they move Levert for him then? Didnt even get a pick back. If they wanted to dump salary, why not try and get expirings/1sts for Levert?
Who was offering that? I think Levert is massively overrated as a trade piece on here. His production does not match his pay and he's 26
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#105 » by FNQ » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:They absolutely can let him walk lol the picks were the package he was a sweetener


So why'd they move Levert for him then? Didnt even get a pick back. If they wanted to dump salary, why not try and get expirings/1sts for Levert?
Who was offering that? I think Levert is massively overrated as a trade piece on here. His production does not match his pay and he's 26


So the implication here is that Oladipo is just an expiring? Because I feel that that's the only way what you're saying could possibly be true
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#106 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 pm

NYG wrote:I'm not in love with some of the value here, but I get where each team was coming from...

Houston: Harden was done there and you can't create a better offer than the best one out there even if it's lower than what you wanted. It has a bit of an addition by subtraction feel to it.

Cleveland: Adding to their young core with a pick that probably will represent a NBA player less talented than Jarrett Allen is and will be.

Brooklyn: They had to do this with it on the table and figure out the locker room later.

Indiana: Perhaps a downgrade on talent, but they have a longer term reasonably paid replacement for Oladipo now.

The winner here is OKC I think. That Rockets team could easily result in a lottery pick and OKC owns the first two picks in 2021 out of Miami/OKC/Houston


I have to disagree. Harden staying was great for us. Harden didn't want to stay, it was akward with his teammates. Perfect for us.

If they trade Harden for Ben Simmons it's still better for us. Simmons/wall fit would be terrible. On the other hand I really like Wall/Oladipo fit. But yeah they have a lot of injury prone players and are not that good so we should still get a lotto pick.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#107 » by Roy The Natural » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:45 pm

After all those people on here complaining about those swindle packages.... Harden was acquired for a swindle package. Man, Houston should be embarrassed. I personally think Portland should be embarrassed as well. I'm not sure CJ+Trent+ 4 picks isn't a vastly better deal... and immediately vaults Portland to contender.

Oh well, spring training is around the corner. Kind of not feeling basketball right now.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#108 » by cl2117 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:46 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:They absolutely can let him walk lol the picks were the package he was a sweetener


So why'd they move Levert for him then? Didnt even get a pick back. If they wanted to dump salary, why not try and get expirings/1sts for Levert?
Who was offering that? I think Levert is massively overrated as a trade piece on here. His production does not match his pay and he's 26

I think Ainge would put up the TPE and a first for an Oladipo rental if he's on the block in HOU.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#109 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:47 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Given Charlotte's desire for a young big, I wonder if they tried to get in on the Allen portion of the deal or not. Think that it was a great deal for Cleveland.

I personally think one of Drummond or Allen is headed to CLT soon.


Pretty sure it's not the guy we just traded an unprotected 1st for.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#110 » by K_chile22 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:47 pm

cl2117 wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
So why'd they move Levert for him then? Didnt even get a pick back. If they wanted to dump salary, why not try and get expirings/1sts for Levert?
Who was offering that? I think Levert is massively overrated as a trade piece on here. His production does not match his pay and he's 26

I think Ainge would put up the TPE and a first for an Oladipo rental if he's on the block in HOU.
Right and that's still an option (but the Celtics are hard capped)
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#111 » by daoneandonly » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:04 pm

Not sure why folks think You got robbed here. They got a plethora of picks for a guy who doesn't want to be there, and even turned Lavert into Dipo
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#112 » by nolang1 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:10 pm

VDT wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
VDT wrote:Was Houston's only intention to screw Morey and the Sixers because that seems like the only explanation here. Essentially trade Harden for non lottery, likely late first round picks. They are going to be tanking while giving up their picks (unless 1-4) and getting the Nets picks instead. I have no idea what the rational is here.


Oladipo isn't nothing and the picks are coming on the downside of Harden's, Durant's and Irving's (who might not even be playing for much longer) careers. If the Sixers weren't offering more than Simmons or Simmons + Thybulle, it's defensible to not want to put all your eggs in the Simmons basket and prefer all those picks and swaps; it's not like Simmons would be guaranteed to lead the Rockets to the playoffs in the coming years.


The Nets are playing in NY and have a competent FO. It is almost impossible that they will hand lottery picks when they have no incentive to tank, even when Durant and Harden have retired. They were a playoff team with middling players like Russell, Allen, Levert etc which are not hard to find at all. The Rockets are basically going to tank but only get late firsts, unless their own picks land 1-4. But they screwed Morey so it might be worth it to their owner.


A) Those 'middling' Brooklyn players were acquired with 1st round picks and/or cap space that they no longer have. Just because someone isn't a superstar doesn't mean they can automatically be replaced with minimum salary players or late 2nd/undrafted rookies.

B) Oladipo is a borderline all-star.

C) Name me a team that went 5+ years in a row exclusively drafting in the late 1st; even the difference between giving up the equivalent of 4 #24 picks versus 4 #30 picks is non-negligible, to say nothing of Kyrie being AWOL or the likelihood that Durant or Harden are healthy every year and still all-NBA players at 36.

D) Simmons is like the 30th best player in the league and the Rockets' current roster was not a very good fit for him, so even if I charitably assume the Nets go on and 7-peat with the best record in the league each year, it's likely better for the Rockets to tank and get 4 extra firsts than to be the 9th or 10th seed in the West.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#113 » by cl2117 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:13 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
cl2117 wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Who was offering that? I think Levert is massively overrated as a trade piece on here. His production does not match his pay and he's 26

I think Ainge would put up the TPE and a first for an Oladipo rental if he's on the block in HOU.
Right and that's still an option (but the Celtics are hard capped)

Just did some quick maths and we've got just short of $20m before we hit the apron, so after we move someone to create the roster spot, should be just enough to slot Dipo in using the TPE.
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Re: Official: Shams -- Dipo to Houston 

Post#114 » by patman66 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:26 pm

FNQ wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:NBA twitter liking this for the Pacers is beyond bizarre. I've been pretty clear that I'm not a Dipo guy, but LeVert just isn't that good. Only benefit is he is under contract, but ugh. Feels like Houston sniped value here.


I love it for them because they no longer have to make one of the tougher offseason calls. If you keep Dipo, you pretty much have to give him a mondo contract, and I'm not so sure you want to do that. The injury history and the questionable ranged jumper make it tough to see him making his next contract worth it.

Levert you get for 2 more years, at presumably about 60% of the price, and I'd feel more comfortable from a consistency standpoint with him. He's not the #1 Dipo could be, but I'd rather have a solid 2/3 I can count on than a 1 I feel suspect about.


Wait a second, your concerned about dipo injury history and you rectify that by adding Levert, that is like having asthma and moving to LA for the air
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#115 » by bondom34 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:30 pm

Trying to process but....I like it most for the Cavs at first glance?
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Re: Official: Shams -- Dipo to Houston 

Post#116 » by FNQ » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:31 pm

patman66 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:NBA twitter liking this for the Pacers is beyond bizarre. I've been pretty clear that I'm not a Dipo guy, but LeVert just isn't that good. Only benefit is he is under contract, but ugh. Feels like Houston sniped value here.


I love it for them because they no longer have to make one of the tougher offseason calls. If you keep Dipo, you pretty much have to give him a mondo contract, and I'm not so sure you want to do that. The injury history and the questionable ranged jumper make it tough to see him making his next contract worth it.

Levert you get for 2 more years, at presumably about 60% of the price, and I'd feel more comfortable from a consistency standpoint with him. He's not the #1 Dipo could be, but I'd rather have a solid 2/3 I can count on than a 1 I feel suspect about.


Wait a second, your concerned about dipo injury history and you rectify that by adding Levert, that is like having asthma and moving to LA for the air


Dipo had one of their hardest injuries to fully rehab. One of our lowest success rates, and unlike Achilles' injuries, there was no noticeable incline (at least through 2016). Its kinda amazing that he's gotten back as far as he has, but I'll always be wary of him. Not unlike Durant with his foot injury.

Not all injuries are equal
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#117 » by VDT » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:33 pm

nolang1 wrote:
A) Those 'middling' Brooklyn players were acquired with 1st round picks and/or cap space that they no longer have. Just because someone isn't a superstar doesn't mean they can automatically be replaced with minimum salary players or late 2nd/undrafted rookies.


My point is that it is not hard to find players like Allen, Levert etc either as second round picks or get them in the free agency. Getting a late lottery/late playoff seed is the easiest thing to do in this league, particularly when half of the teams in the East are terrible.

nolang1 wrote:B) Oladipo is a borderline all-star.


He had one good year, since then he has been bad /injured. He is also going to go to the team that offers him the most money. I doubt the Rockets keep him.

nolang1 wrote:C) Name me a team that went 5+ years in a row exclusively drafting in the late 1st; even the difference between giving up the equivalent of 4 #24 picks versus 4 #30 picks is non-negligible, to say nothing of Kyrie being AWOL or the likelihood that Durant or Harden are healthy every year and still all-NBA players at 36.


It is not hard to have a good enough team to only give late 10s - early 20s picks. The deal makes sense only if the Rockets get high lottery picks.

nolang1 wrote:D) Simmons is like the 30th best player in the league and the Rockets' current roster was not a very good fit for him, so even if I charitably assume the Nets go on and 7-peat with the best record in the league each year, it's likely better for the Rockets to tank and get 4 extra firsts than to be the 9th or 10th seed in the West.


It is hard to place Simmons because his it on the Sixers is bad. But banking on him and his upside is a much better bet than these Nets picks. Current Rocket roster is irrelevant, Wall and Cousins are even more irrelevant for the Rockets future.
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Re: Official: Shams -- Dipo to Houston 

Post#118 » by patman66 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:35 pm

FNQ wrote:
patman66 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
I love it for them because they no longer have to make one of the tougher offseason calls. If you keep Dipo, you pretty much have to give him a mondo contract, and I'm not so sure you want to do that. The injury history and the questionable ranged jumper make it tough to see him making his next contract worth it.

Levert you get for 2 more years, at presumably about 60% of the price, and I'd feel more comfortable from a consistency standpoint with him. He's not the #1 Dipo could be, but I'd rather have a solid 2/3 I can count on than a 1 I feel suspect about.


Wait a second, your concerned about dipo injury history and you rectify that by adding Levert, that is like having asthma and moving to LA for the air


Dipo had one of their hardest injuries to fully rehab. One of our lowest success rates, and unlike Achilles' injuries, there was no noticeable incline (at least through 2016). Its kinda amazing that he's gotten back as far as he has, but I'll always be wary of him. Not unlike Durant with his foot injury.

Not all injuries are equal


going back 6 years, levert played 2/3rds of the games in a season once. Dipo has now played the bubble games and 12games this year since his injury. Levert is a talent, but inefficient and injury prone.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#119 » by Buzzard » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:44 pm

I like it a little for everyone.

Brooklyn gets their big three.
Houston can kick the tires on a Wall/Oladipo back court and see if they want to keep/pay him. If not, they have picks now and will no longer be in cap hell.
Cleveland got a young big that fits their timeline.
Indy got a good player for someone who was looking like he was gone.
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Re: Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard 

Post#120 » by yosemiteben » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:46 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Given Charlotte's desire for a young big, I wonder if they tried to get in on the Allen portion of the deal or not. Think that it was a great deal for Cleveland.

I personally think one of Drummond or Allen is headed to CLT soon.


Pretty sure it's not the guy we just traded an unprotected 1st for.

Yeah I'm more thinking Drummond, but also thinking we'd more than make that back to you if we wanted Allen.

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