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T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 2:35 am
by Dr Positivity
2018 list

1. Russell Westbrook (3 years, 132.7 million, includes 3rd year 47.1 million player option)
2. Klay Thompson (4 years, 157.2 million)
3. John Wall (3 years, 133 million, includes 3rd year 47.4 million player option)

Please vote for the #4 lowest trade value player taking into account salary, age, health, etc. and not just their caliber of play. In addition please nominate a player to replace them on the list.

Nominees:

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Andrew Wiggins (3 years, 94.7 million)

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Blake Griffin (2 years, 75.8 million, includes 2nd year 39.0 million player option)

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Kevin Love (3 years, 91.5 million)

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D'Angelo Russell (3 years, 90.3 million)

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Al Horford (2 years, 54.5 million, plus 26.5 million 3rd year with 12 million guaranteed)

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Draymond Green (4 years, 99.6 million, includes 4th year 27.6 million player option)

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Tobias Harris (4 years, 147.3 million)

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 2:37 am
by E S V L
Russel

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 2:38 am
by Dr Positivity
Vote Kevin Love

Aging, injury prone, not even that great when he plays anymore. Not as washed as Griffin but a longer deal.

Nominate Marcus Morris

4 year starter caliber deal for a 31 year old 11ppg player who's only skill is scoring

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 2:45 am
by HornetJail
Kevin Love should've been #1, still going with him

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 2:48 am
by ejftw
V: Love. Still can't believe he isn't there

Nominate: Buddy.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 2:48 am
by NYG
Vote Love because it’s him, Russell and Wiggins, but at least there’s some-ish hope for Russell and Wiggins given their age where as Love is only going to get worse

Nominate Davis Bertans... that’s a long contract

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2025/

Majority of that list is way way way better players.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 2:57 am
by babyjax13
V: Love
N: Harrison Barnes (see below)

babyjax13 wrote:Below average starter at either forward position making ~$20 million/year for 3 seasons when he should be making around $10 million.

EDIT: I've been pretty consistent on the Harrison Barnes is a terrible contract bandwagon, but I'll elaborate.

BPM --- RAPTOR --- RPM
2012-13 --- [-1.7] --- [N/A] --- [-1.13]
2013-14 --- [-1.6] --- [-3.8] --- [-4.16]
2014-15 --- [0.1] --- [-0.5] --- [0.07]
2015-16 --- [-1.3] --- [-1.7] --- [-0.65]
2016-17 --- [-0.8] --- [-0.2] --- [-0.97]
2017-18 --- [-0.5] --- [-1.5] --- [-1.54]
2018-19 --- [-1.4] --- [-1.3] --- [-0.26]
2019-20 --- [-1.4] --- [-1.4] --- [-1.02]
2020-21 --- [0.2] --- [2.7] --- [-0.09]

In almost every season, on almost every team, he has been a negative value player as a starter. So yes, he has size, and he can shoot, and despite that has still managed to be a net-negative as a starter every year of his career except this season, and as of right now, we have a small sample. Maybe he keeps it up all season, if so, that's great! But it's not the Harrison Barnes we've seen for 612 games before this season.

Just take last year as an example, he was 257th (79th at SF) in RAPTOR and 170th (53rd at SF) in RAPTOR WAR last season, that puts him in a rough group with:

Troy Brown Jr.
Andrew Wiggins
Reggie Bullock
James Ennis
Doug McDermott
Cedi Osman
Trevor Ariza
Cam Johnson
Kyle Anderson
Dillon Brooks

And a good chunk of those guys made $8-$13 million a year, and some were even considered overpaid at that [but I'd say it's roughly appropriate]. So, let's say at best, using these players as approximate peers, that Barnes should be a $13 million/year player (entirely appropriate for a 6th or 7th man, or your 5th best starter - probably the role Barnes should be in, a team's 5th to 7th best player), that has him overpaid by $9 million this year, $7 million the next, and $5 million the year after.

Heck, we can even go to 538's player rater, which rates Barnes as a $4.5 million player for this season (so the rough approximation above may be too high from a standpoint that considers metrics absent anything else): https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-player-projections/harrison-barnes/

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 3:01 am
by shrink
V: Kevin Love

N: Damian Lillard. Yes, he’s one of the ten best players in the NBA. But his extension is four years, at about $50 mil a year. Lillard’s 30 now. I just think it’s almost impossible he can produce this much. However, an injury would instantly make this, by far, the worst contract in the NBA.

One last note - both these guys are worth more to their own teams than others, but this measures trade value.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 3:10 am
by jbk1234
Vote Wiggins. He starts every season well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 3:20 am
by gswhoops
Love
Hield

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 3:33 am
by FNQ
Still voting Russell. Again - 4th team in 6 years, and he's clearly not cut out to be a top 2 option on a winner. Doesnt do the little things you'd ask of a role player. How do you use him? Will there be a 5th team that thinks they can unlock him as a winner? Even if so - gonna bring back bad value in return, and he definitely isnt going to return expirings, which I think 2 people on the list would if given the chance (Klay, Wall)

Nominate: Hield - panicked last time and said Bertrans, but Hield's probably worse right now

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 4:58 am
by SNPA
Buddy is shooting 40% from 3 on 10 attempts per game.

What do you think that gets in the open market?

Then compare it to what shooters got this offseason.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 5:14 am
by WICKED17
Vote... Love
Nominate... Bertrans

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 5:15 am
by azwfan
Vote Blake.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 5:27 am
by Prospect Dong
Vote Wiggins - hate that length

Nominate... Barnes, I guess.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 5:27 am
by Wolveswin
Love
Hayward

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 5:33 am
by FNQ
jbk1234 wrote:Vote Wiggins. He starts every season well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


I've heard this a lot so I checked it out..

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wiggian01/splits/

Using ASB as a marker, Wiggins is and has been clearly worse in the first 3 months of the season than the last 3. So started looking for individual seasons where it was true, and it turns out it was only true in 2 of his 6 complete seasons. And one of those seasons was last year, when the post ASB game total was 9.

TS% by month:

.548 April
.538 February
.530 January
.523 March
.519 October
.514 November
.506 December

Net Rtg by month:

-8 January
-9 February / November
-10 April
-13 October
-15 December / March

Seems like if anything, he's usually a slow starter, and then improved more as the games mattered less.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 5:48 am
by K_chile22
Torn between Wiggins and Dlo. Love deal is bad but he's actually good. Blake is bad but has a year less.

I'll go with Wiggins just because I think when Dlo is actually playing well he's a more valuable player than Wiggins when he's playing well. They're both usually not playing well tho.
Green deal is a bit more rough than I thought. Same with Harris. Those might be right there with Blake

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 6:05 am
by Crazy-Canuck
Lovr

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Vote for #4

Posted: Tue Feb 2, 2021 6:46 am
by karch34
Blake. Shorter but think the others can give you something.