Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible?

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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#41 » by Buzzard » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:What an absolute derailment of a thread. First LaVine shoehorned in, only made far worse by the inevitable only for Luka response. Followed by somehow in a Dallas/Chicago thread an assertion that Clint Capela is as untouchable as The Joker.

We badly lost the plot here. :lol:

I said Capela is as nongettable simply because he is so valued by the Hawks for his salary and production. I did not say he would take as many assets or anything of the sort. And it was in reply to a post that wanted to add Atlanta to the mix for a three team deal. Read Chicago/Dallas/Atlanta. Not way off topic, just a expansion of the topic.

I really wish you would take the time to read before you attack my post. This is really getting frivolous and petty with you.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#42 » by Buzzard » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:27 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Think there's too many moving parts, it can be scaled back a ton. If ATL can be involved where they get Georgia born Wendell Carter and asset from Chi, Dal gets Capella, Felicio, filler, Chi gets Porzingis and filler, I'd love it


I think getting Capela for Wendell Carter or KP is a reach. KP may help with Atlanta's playoff goals but his injury history and load management issues makes him a liability. Not worth the gray hairs he would cause the coaching staff or management. Capela would never be traded for Wendell Carter. That is a total about face on their playoff aspirations.

Everyone wants Capela now that he is on a team that uses him. I would say he is no more gettable right now than Gobert or Jokic is. Capela may not have the impact but he comes at half the price.


Yea wishful thinking on my part. I wouldnt mind Carter on the Mavs. I draw the line at lavine and/or lauri though

I don't think Carter is a bad get. But I also don't think he ever provides the rim protection and rebounding Capela does. Carter can one day be a good player on a good to great team.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#43 » by Slim Charless » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:43 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:What an absolute derailment of a thread. First LaVine shoehorned in, only made far worse by the inevitable only for Luka response. Followed by somehow in a Dallas/Chicago thread an assertion that Clint Capela is as untouchable as The Joker.

We badly lost the plot here. :lol:

I said Capela is as nongettable simply because he is so valued by the Hawks for his salary and production. I did not say he would take as many assets or anything of the sort. And it was in reply to a post that wanted to add Atlanta to the mix for a three team deal. Read Chicago/Dallas/Atlanta. Not way off topic, just a expansion of the topic.

I really wish you would take the time to read before you attack my post. This is really getting frivolous and petty with you.


Reread your post. You didn't say that but you sure hinted at it. You make a post like that you're inviting some attacks. Capela is playing fine this year but he shouldn't be in the same sentence as Joker or Gobert. Ever.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#44 » by Buzzard » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:02 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:What an absolute derailment of a thread. First LaVine shoehorned in, only made far worse by the inevitable only for Luka response. Followed by somehow in a Dallas/Chicago thread an assertion that Clint Capela is as untouchable as The Joker.

We badly lost the plot here. :lol:

I said Capela is as nongettable simply because he is so valued by the Hawks for his salary and production. I did not say he would take as many assets or anything of the sort. And it was in reply to a post that wanted to add Atlanta to the mix for a three team deal. Read Chicago/Dallas/Atlanta. Not way off topic, just a expansion of the topic.

I really wish you would take the time to read before you attack my post. This is really getting frivolous and petty with you.


Reread your post. You didn't say that but you sure hinted at it. You make a post like that you're inviting some attacks. Capela is playing fine this year but he shouldn't be in the same sentence as Joker or Gobert. Ever.

Name 10 centers you would rather have starting on your team other than Capela. He is 1st in rebounds and 3rd in blocks. I think he is just outside the top 5. AD, Embiid, Gobert, Jokic, KAT then who?

So before judging what I said to be a attack on two of the top five, look at the context. Production and salary and value to his team. Not to your team. Some posters don't value centers at all. GSW has a few fans like that.

Inviting a attack from some posters only requires me to say something positive about a Hawks player. Its becoming redundant.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#45 » by aguiar95 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:43 pm

Buzzard wrote:Name 10 centers you would rather have starting on your team other than Capela. He is 1st in rebounds and 3rd in blocks. I think he is just outside the top 5. AD, Embiid, Gobert, Jokic, KAT then who?

So before judging what I said to be a attack on two of the top five, look at the context. Production and salary and value to his team. Not to your team. Some posters don't value centers at all. GSW has a few fans like that.

Inviting a attack from some posters only requires me to say something positive about a Hawks player. Its becoming redundant.


AD
Embiid
Gobert
Jokic
Towns
Adebayo

Now the fun part begins. Depending on what pieces you have on your team, I see all these adding more value to your team than Capela.

Vucevic
Turner
Porzingis
Ayton
Wood
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#46 » by Slim Charless » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:01 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Buzzard wrote:I said Capela is as nongettable simply because he is so valued by the Hawks for his salary and production. I did not say he would take as many assets or anything of the sort. And it was in reply to a post that wanted to add Atlanta to the mix for a three team deal. Read Chicago/Dallas/Atlanta. Not way off topic, just a expansion of the topic.

I really wish you would take the time to read before you attack my post. This is really getting frivolous and petty with you.


Reread your post. You didn't say that but you sure hinted at it. You make a post like that you're inviting some attacks. Capela is playing fine this year but he shouldn't be in the same sentence as Joker or Gobert. Ever.

Name 10 centers you would rather have starting on your team other than Capela. He is 1st in rebounds and 3rd in blocks. I think he is just outside the top 5. AD, Embiid, Gobert, Jokic, KAT then who?

So before judging what I said to be a attack on two of the top five, look at the context. Production and salary and value to his team. Not to your team. Some posters don't value centers at all. GSW has a few fans like that.

Inviting a attack from some posters only requires me to say something positive about a Hawks player. Its becoming redundant.


Quit pretending like you're being attacked. You make a post comparing Capela to the possible MVP and 3 time DPOY, you're gonna get attention.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#47 » by Buzzard » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:02 pm

aguiar95 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Name 10 centers you would rather have starting on your team other than Capela. He is 1st in rebounds and 3rd in blocks. I think he is just outside the top 5. AD, Embiid, Gobert, Jokic, KAT then who?

So before judging what I said to be a attack on two of the top five, look at the context. Production and salary and value to his team. Not to your team. Some posters don't value centers at all. GSW has a few fans like that.

Inviting a attack from some posters only requires me to say something positive about a Hawks player. Its becoming redundant.


AD
Embiid
Gobert
Jokic
Towns
Adebayo

Now the fun part begins. Depending on what pieces you have on your team, I see all these adding more value to your team than Capela.

Vucevic
Turner
Porzingis
Ayton
Wood

I love Vuc and he was a trade wish of mine before the Capela trade. I value Capela more for his defense and Vuc cost a lot more.
Turner is for real. I honestly think its a coin toss. Both excellent at what they do and on great contracts.
Porzingis is not available enough and cost twice as much. Injury risk is just to high.
Ayton has promise but he is not as mobile defensively as Capela.
Wood is a nice player but I am not trading Capela for him. Capela has to much experience dealing in big moments with some of the best bigs in the game. I don't think Wood is close to being there yet.

Atl needed the defensive help Capela brought to the table. So out of your list its Turner and KP that are close. I think I explained my thoughts pretty well on both of them.

Ayton is a teaser. His age fits right in with Trae and the core. But I think swapping Capela for Ayton definitely puts the Hawks back production wise.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#48 » by Buzzard » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:27 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Reread your post. You didn't say that but you sure hinted at it. You make a post like that you're inviting some attacks. Capela is playing fine this year but he shouldn't be in the same sentence as Joker or Gobert. Ever.

Name 10 centers you would rather have starting on your team other than Capela. He is 1st in rebounds and 3rd in blocks. I think he is just outside the top 5. AD, Embiid, Gobert, Jokic, KAT then who?

So before judging what I said to be a attack on two of the top five, look at the context. Production and salary and value to his team. Not to your team. Some posters don't value centers at all. GSW has a few fans like that.

Inviting a attack from some posters only requires me to say something positive about a Hawks player. Its becoming redundant.


Quit pretending like you're being attacked. You make a post comparing Capela to the possible MVP and 3 time DPOY, you're gonna get attention.

The below comment offered nothing to the discussion and was a petty attack on my post. There was not one iota of substance to it asking me to explain my point of view; and he completely ignored the fact that it was in response to another poster who wanted to see if a three team trade could be worked out.

Followed by somehow in a Dallas/Chicago thread an assertion that Clint Capela is as untouchable as The Joker.


Now if you can find something useful in the above response that would be considered part of a debate, feel free to enlighten me. Otherwise I am putting you on ignore for carrying this on even longer.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#49 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:32 pm

LOL. I wasn't trying to debate. I was literally just pointing out how off the rails the thread had gotten and listed 3 examples and called nobody out for it.

If I wanted to debate I would have said its ludicrous to suggest that Capela is as untouchable as Jokic because of course he isn't. Trae Young isn't even as untouchable as Jokic and I have Trae Young pretty darn untouchable.

I get you love the guy and he's played well. But you chose to go with hyperbole and then want to be a victim if anyone dares comment on it.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#50 » by Buzzard » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:19 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:LOL. I wasn't trying to debate. I was literally just pointing out how off the rails the thread had gotten and listed 3 examples and called nobody out for it.

If I wanted to debate I would have said its ludicrous to suggest that Capela is as untouchable as Jokic because of course he isn't. Trae Young isn't even as untouchable as Jokic and I have Trae Young pretty darn untouchable.

I get you love the guy and he's played well. But you chose to go with hyperbole and then want to be a victim if anyone dares comment on it.

You have to be one of the weakest debaters I have ever faced in my life. You almost always resort to snide remarks, name calling, and labeling ( victim ). I don't get it coming from someone that has been on a discussion/debate board for so long but I do understand the strategy.

Back to the topic at hand.

Easy pass for the Bulls. I have KP close to a net negative. He is grossly overpaid considering the impact he has provided since signing his new contract.

The three team trade to get Carter to Atl and Capela to Dallas. Also a easy pass for the Hawks. Capela has been way to impactful for the Hawks defense. They already have Okongwu waiting in the wings.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#51 » by Slim Charless » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:36 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Name 10 centers you would rather have starting on your team other than Capela. He is 1st in rebounds and 3rd in blocks. I think he is just outside the top 5. AD, Embiid, Gobert, Jokic, KAT then who?

So before judging what I said to be a attack on two of the top five, look at the context. Production and salary and value to his team. Not to your team. Some posters don't value centers at all. GSW has a few fans like that.

Inviting a attack from some posters only requires me to say something positive about a Hawks player. Its becoming redundant.


Quit pretending like you're being attacked. You make a post comparing Capela to the possible MVP and 3 time DPOY, you're gonna get attention.

The below comment offered nothing to the discussion and was a petty attack on my post. There was not one iota of substance to it asking me to explain my point of view; and he completely ignored the fact that it was in response to another poster who wanted to see if a three team trade could be worked out.

Followed by somehow in a Dallas/Chicago thread an assertion that Clint Capela is as untouchable as The Joker.


Now if you can find something useful in the above response that would be considered part of a debate, feel free to enlighten me. Otherwise I am putting you on ignore for carrying this on even longer.


You're the one that said it, not me. Don't get all offended because someone made a statement that you disagree with.

To answer your other comment about Ayton. I don't know where you got that Capela is better-I very much disagree with that. I don't know how you get your numbers but Capela is not top 6.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#52 » by Buzzard » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:47 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Quit pretending like you're being attacked. You make a post comparing Capela to the possible MVP and 3 time DPOY, you're gonna get attention.

The below comment offered nothing to the discussion and was a petty attack on my post. There was not one iota of substance to it asking me to explain my point of view; and he completely ignored the fact that it was in response to another poster who wanted to see if a three team trade could be worked out.

Followed by somehow in a Dallas/Chicago thread an assertion that Clint Capela is as untouchable as The Joker.


Now if you can find something useful in the above response that would be considered part of a debate, feel free to enlighten me. Otherwise I am putting you on ignore for carrying this on even longer.


You're the one that said it, not me. Don't get all offended because someone made a statement that you disagree with.

To answer your other comment about Ayton. I don't know where you got that Capela is better-I very much disagree with that. I don't know how you get your numbers but Capela is not top 6.

I said just outside the top five. That is no different than who I listed in the top five. Some may like Embiid over Jokic or Jokic over Embiid etc...6 - 8 or 9 could also be seen as interchangeable.

I like Capela over Ayton right now. Especially on defense. I do get that three years from now Ayton could become a beast. But he could also be exactly what he is now or just a little better.

I would call Turner and Capela close to even. I like Capela's board work more. But I can see them being thought of as a tossup.

KP has the tools but obviously can't stay on the floor. Almost double the money and 1/3 less the playing time for KP makes Capela a no brainer choice in my mind.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#53 » by coldfish » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:17 am

As a Bulls fan, I wouldn't trade Otto's expiring deal for KP straight up. There are better uses for $30m per year than to pay KP to be injured.

Let's put it this way: Luka is awesome. If Luka and KP can't get anywhere, Zach and KP certainly can't.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#54 » by Captain_Obvious » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:44 am

coldfish wrote:As a Bulls fan, I wouldn't trade Otto's expiring deal for KP straight up. There are better uses for $30m per year than to pay KP to be injured.

Let's put it this way: Luka is awesome. If Luka and KP can't get anywhere, Zach and KP certainly can't.

I give you Zach and KP can't get anywhere

How about KP and Zach?

Nah, you ain't getting KP for Otto. And the guys better than KP for 30 million? Ain't signing in Chicago either.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#55 » by coldfish » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:23 am

Captain_Obvious wrote:
coldfish wrote:As a Bulls fan, I wouldn't trade Otto's expiring deal for KP straight up. There are better uses for $30m per year than to pay KP to be injured.

Let's put it this way: Luka is awesome. If Luka and KP can't get anywhere, Zach and KP certainly can't.

I give you Zach and KP can't get anywhere

How about KP and Zach?

Nah, you ain't getting KP for Otto. And the guys better than KP for 30 million? Ain't signing in Chicago either.


The Otto for KP wasn't a suggestion. I said I wouldn't even do that.

I would happily just spend the $30m on a few role players over using that salary on Kristaps. When KP is on and playing well, he is a fine player but Chicago has been one of the most injured teams in all of sports over the past few years. I want off this roller coaster.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#56 » by DroseReturnChi » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:08 am

coldfish wrote:
Captain_Obvious wrote:
coldfish wrote:As a Bulls fan, I wouldn't trade Otto's expiring deal for KP straight up. There are better uses for $30m per year than to pay KP to be injured.

Let's put it this way: Luka is awesome. If Luka and KP can't get anywhere, Zach and KP certainly can't.

I give you Zach and KP can't get anywhere

How about KP and Zach?

Nah, you ain't getting KP for Otto. And the guys better than KP for 30 million? Ain't signing in Chicago either.


The Otto for KP wasn't a suggestion. I said I wouldn't even do that.

I would happily just spend the $30m on a few role players over using that salary on Kristaps. When KP is on and playing well, he is a fine player but Chicago has been one of the most injured teams in all of sports over the past few years. I want off this roller coaster.


you think the Bulls can get better talent than KP? Teams that are not fa destinations need to shut up and take elite talent.
otto,Lauri for KP is no brainer.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#57 » by jayjaysee » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:04 am

As (possibly) the first Dallas fan to push KP trades last year.. Some opinions seem to have snowballed a bit too far.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#58 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:22 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
coldfish wrote:
Captain_Obvious wrote:I give you Zach and KP can't get anywhere

How about KP and Zach?

Nah, you ain't getting KP for Otto. And the guys better than KP for 30 million? Ain't signing in Chicago either.


The Otto for KP wasn't a suggestion. I said I wouldn't even do that.

I would happily just spend the $30m on a few role players over using that salary on Kristaps. When KP is on and playing well, he is a fine player but Chicago has been one of the most injured teams in all of sports over the past few years. I want off this roller coaster.


you think the Bulls can get better talent than KP? Teams that are not fa destinations need to shut up and take elite talent.
otto,Lauri for KP is no brainer.


Of course they can, they already have better talent than him on their roster. Are you saying they can’t get more of the same talent? Or only one all star is the max for the franchise?

They will have 50-60 million dollars coming off their contracts next year. Throwing more than half of that on KP is nonsense. ADDING value for the right to do that? Isaiah Thomas level logic.

John Collins at his max is easily a better option, and that’s a number his own team didn’t want to pay him.

The Bulls now have an all star, a new front office, a player friendly, respected coach, and a boatload of money. They don’t need to shut up and take anything.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#59 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:07 am

jayjaysee wrote:As (possibly) the first Dallas fan to push KP trades last year.. Some opinions seem to have snowballed a bit too far.


Yeah if we are to a point on this board where posters are saying they wouldn't do Wiggins straight up then okay, I'll accept that's the board's valuation. But I'll also stop exploring KP trades because I can't get quite that far.
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Re: Chicago & Dallas: Porzingis Possible? 

Post#60 » by Buzzard » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:27 am

jayjaysee wrote:As (possibly) the first Dallas fan to push KP trades last year.. Some opinions seem to have snowballed a bit too far.

There is no doubt a lot of fans think the talent is there. I think its there. But so is the money and his talent is not playing out consistently. I honestly think the Mavs will have to take a bath to move him right now. Not near the value they paid for him in other words. He is making more now, he is guaranteed a lot more now, and he is still not playing consistently.

I think their best bet is to hope he can reestablish his value this season; then they check if they want to move him next season. It will be a downer if he flames out again with a injury. But they have to hope he can get that availability issue put behind him.

Reality check: Two years after being traded the availability issue is still dominant when talking about KP. He was traded on 01/31/19.
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