Boston ain't right -- How to fix?

[DroseReturnChi]

Boston literally lost everything with horford, rozier, hayward leaving. they should have traded hayward for assets at least but they greeded and got punished. Unless they draft Gobert, Hali types dont see a way out without trading Brown.

[doctor him]

I’m not in the business of providing comfort to Celtics fans since I’m a Sixers fan, but here it goes.

The Celts should...do nothing.

Their stars are 24 and 22. Brown took a leap and Tatum probably has another level too.

The magic age seems to be 27 when guys put it together.

Until then, there isn’t any patch move that will make them a contender. Now if they want to make a deal for right now I’ll cheer any win now move they make, but remember I’m a Sixers fan.

Best advice. Wait and let Tatum and Brown grow into legit mvp franchise players and put only pieces around them for a window that opens in 23 or 24

[StreakyJ]

Anyone who thinks just ride it out, check the cap for next season ALREADY on the hook for $132M. No bueno. Tatum adds $20M. Underpaid Theis gone, Smart probably not trying to negotiate another contract with the reaper Ainge. Danny needs a credible move to restore credibility or he's gonna start hearing the ghost of dissing Isaiah Thomas whispering in his ear (the fans remember).
Problem was his hubris as self-ordained genius pope with his high priest Stevens had gotten overblown, almost Doc Rivers Clipperish with Austin, in the way they overpaid Hayward straight on top of a playoff proven roster.

Make no mistake, the current Kemba dissonance is just another symptom of that flu that hasn't worked it's way out. A hint of humility from Ainge towards his players required, which his liar's poker business face doesn't give. The Celitcs lore of old is long gone for Ainge to just assume players gonna come running especially seeing that loyalty of the financial hatchet Danny abused. Blame lays solely on him for the wasted potential of that potentially brilliant talented, aggressive, swaggery young roster a couple years back with Rozier with C's overperforming in the playoffs where it matters. Those tandems don't just appear every day.

Fall on your sword Danny. Make things right again.

PLAYER 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23
Kemba Walker $34,379,100 $36,016,200 $37,653,300
Jaylen Brown $23,735,118 $25,633,928 $27,532,738
Marcus Smart $12,946,428 $13,839,285 $0
Jayson Tatum $9,897,120 $28,100,000 $30,348,000
Tristan Thompson $9,258,000 $9,720,900 $0
Daniel Theis $5,000,000 $0 $0
Romeo Langford $3,631,200 $3,804,360 $5,634,257
Aaron Nesmith $3,458,400 $3,631,200 $3,804,360
Jeff Teague $2,564,753 $0 $0
Grant Williams $2,498,760 $2,617,800 $4,306,281
Payton Pritchard $2,035,800 $2,137,440 $2,239,200
Robert Williams $2,029,920 $3,661,976 $5,430,710
Semi Ojeleye $1,752,950 $0 $0
Carsen Edwards $1,517,981 $1,782,621 $1,930,681
Javonte Green $1,517,981 $0 $0
Guerschon Yabusele $1,039,080 $1,039,080 $0
Tacko Fall $449,115 $0 $0
Tremont Waters $449,115 $0 $0
Demetrius Jackson $92,857 $92,857 $92,857
TOTALS $118,253,678 $132,077,647 $95,626,895

[Scoot McGroot]

Okay, Thanks

Just for clarity, other contracts can be in the deal they just can't be combined with the TPE to take back a player making more than the TPE. Sort of the best way to remember that is to understand that a TPE is never traded, it's generated any time you are over the cap and send out more salary than you take back.

I always imagined that it was traded. Like you trade a player to a team with cap space and the team trades you back cap space in return in the form of a TPE. But then the TPE isn't traded once created.

Is trading contracts with a TPE and non-simultaneous trade?

I would not think of a non-simultaneous deal like this as “trading cap” or “trading a TPE”. Think of cap space or a TPE as being used/consumed and created. A team may use a TPE to take on a contract, and the other team would create a TPE for trading a player into “nothing”. Each team in a trade can arrange the trade from their angle as best works for them, too. Make some sense?

[Scoot McGroot]

Anyone who thinks just ride it out, check the cap for next season ALREADY on the hook for $132M. No bueno. Tatum adds $20M. Underpaid Theis gone, Smart probably not trying to negotiate another contract with the reaper Ainge. Danny needs a credible move to restore credibility or he's gonna start hearing the ghost of dissing Isaiah Thomas whispering in his ear (the fans remember).
Problem was his hubris as self-ordained genius pope with his high priest Stevens had gotten overblown, almost Doc Rivers Clipperish with Austin, in the way they overpaid Hayward straight on top of a playoff proven roster.

Make no mistake, the current Kemba dissonance is just another symptom of that flu that hasn't worked it's way out. A hint of humility from Ainge towards his players required, which his liar's poker business face doesn't give. The Celitcs lore of old is long gone for Ainge to just assume players gonna come running especially seeing that loyalty of the financial hatchet Danny abused. Blame lays solely on him for the wasted potential of that potentially brilliant talented, aggressive, swaggery young roster a couple years back with Rozier with C's overperforming in the playoffs where it matters. Those tandems don't just appear every day.

Fall on your sword Danny. Make things right again.

PLAYER 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23
Kemba Walker $34,379,100 $36,016,200 $37,653,300
Jaylen Brown $23,735,118 $25,633,928 $27,532,738
Marcus Smart $12,946,428 $13,839,285 $0
Jayson Tatum $9,897,120 $28,100,000 $30,348,000
Tristan Thompson $9,258,000 $9,720,900 $0
Daniel Theis $5,000,000 $0 $0
Romeo Langford $3,631,200 $3,804,360 $5,634,257
Aaron Nesmith $3,458,400 $3,631,200 $3,804,360
Jeff Teague $2,564,753 $0 $0
Grant Williams $2,498,760 $2,617,800 $4,306,281
Payton Pritchard $2,035,800 $2,137,440 $2,239,200
Robert Williams $2,029,920 $3,661,976 $5,430,710
Semi Ojeleye $1,752,950 $0 $0
Carsen Edwards $1,517,981 $1,782,621 $1,930,681
Javonte Green $1,517,981 $0 $0
Guerschon Yabusele $1,039,080 $1,039,080 $0
Tacko Fall $449,115 $0 $0
Tremont Waters $449,115 $0 $0
Demetrius Jackson $92,857 $92,857 $92,857
TOTALS $118,253,678 $132,077,647 $95,626,895

Yeah, Boston is already at $133.5m guaranteed for next season, before factoring in a 1st round draft pick salary, too, and that would only be for 12 players total.

[cl2117]

Anyone who thinks just ride it out, check the cap for next season ALREADY on the hook for $132M. No bueno. Tatum adds $20M. Underpaid Theis gone, Smart probably not trying to negotiate another contract with the reaper Ainge. Danny needs a credible move to restore credibility or he's gonna start hearing the ghost of dissing Isaiah Thomas whispering in his ear (the fans remember).
Problem was his hubris as self-ordained genius pope with his high priest Stevens had gotten overblown, almost Doc Rivers Clipperish with Austin, in the way they overpaid Hayward straight on top of a playoff proven roster.

Make no mistake, the current Kemba dissonance is just another symptom of that flu that hasn't worked it's way out. A hint of humility from Ainge towards his players required, which his liar's poker business face doesn't give. The Celitcs lore of old is long gone for Ainge to just assume players gonna come running especially seeing that loyalty of the financial hatchet Danny abused. Blame lays solely on him for the wasted potential of that potentially brilliant talented, aggressive, swaggery young roster a couple years back with Rozier with C's overperforming in the playoffs where it matters. Those tandems don't just appear every day.

Fall on your sword Danny. Make things right again.

PLAYER 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23
Kemba Walker $34,379,100 $36,016,200 $37,653,300
Jaylen Brown $23,735,118 $25,633,928 $27,532,738
Marcus Smart $12,946,428 $13,839,285 $0
Jayson Tatum $9,897,120 $28,100,000 $30,348,000
Tristan Thompson $9,258,000 $9,720,900 $0
Daniel Theis $5,000,000 $0 $0
Romeo Langford $3,631,200 $3,804,360 $5,634,257
Aaron Nesmith $3,458,400 $3,631,200 $3,804,360
Jeff Teague $2,564,753 $0 $0
Grant Williams $2,498,760 $2,617,800 $4,306,281
Payton Pritchard $2,035,800 $2,137,440 $2,239,200
Robert Williams $2,029,920 $3,661,976 $5,430,710
Semi Ojeleye $1,752,950 $0 $0
Carsen Edwards $1,517,981 $1,782,621 $1,930,681
Javonte Green $1,517,981 $0 $0
Guerschon Yabusele $1,039,080 $1,039,080 $0
Tacko Fall $449,115 $0 $0
Tremont Waters $449,115 $0 $0
Demetrius Jackson $92,857 $92,857 $92,857
TOTALS $118,253,678 $132,077,647 $95,626,895

Yeah, Boston is already at $133.5m guaranteed for next season, before factoring in a 1st round draft pick salary, too, and that would only be for 12 players total.

They won't be hard capped next year though and will have Bird rights for Theis as well as the TPE to bring in a guy or multiple depending on how they split it. So obviously not a great spot with how crazy expensive they'll be compared to their ceiling, but at least their hands won't be completely tied.

Although I'm not honestly sure of all the cap implications associated with the above. So maybe I'm wrong about the options.

[Scoot McGroot]

Anyone who thinks just ride it out, check the cap for next season ALREADY on the hook for $132M. No bueno. Tatum adds $20M. Underpaid Theis gone, Smart probably not trying to negotiate another contract with the reaper Ainge. Danny needs a credible move to restore credibility or he's gonna start hearing the ghost of dissing Isaiah Thomas whispering in his ear (the fans remember).
Problem was his hubris as self-ordained genius pope with his high priest Stevens had gotten overblown, almost Doc Rivers Clipperish with Austin, in the way they overpaid Hayward straight on top of a playoff proven roster.

Make no mistake, the current Kemba dissonance is just another symptom of that flu that hasn't worked it's way out. A hint of humility from Ainge towards his players required, which his liar's poker business face doesn't give. The Celitcs lore of old is long gone for Ainge to just assume players gonna come running especially seeing that loyalty of the financial hatchet Danny abused. Blame lays solely on him for the wasted potential of that potentially brilliant talented, aggressive, swaggery young roster a couple years back with Rozier with C's overperforming in the playoffs where it matters. Those tandems don't just appear every day.

Fall on your sword Danny. Make things right again.

PLAYER 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23
Kemba Walker $34,379,100 $36,016,200 $37,653,300
Jaylen Brown $23,735,118 $25,633,928 $27,532,738
Marcus Smart $12,946,428 $13,839,285 $0
Jayson Tatum $9,897,120 $28,100,000 $30,348,000
Tristan Thompson $9,258,000 $9,720,900 $0
Daniel Theis $5,000,000 $0 $0
Romeo Langford $3,631,200 $3,804,360 $5,634,257
Aaron Nesmith $3,458,400 $3,631,200 $3,804,360
Jeff Teague $2,564,753 $0 $0
Grant Williams $2,498,760 $2,617,800 $4,306,281
Payton Pritchard $2,035,800 $2,137,440 $2,239,200
Robert Williams $2,029,920 $3,661,976 $5,430,710
Semi Ojeleye $1,752,950 $0 $0
Carsen Edwards $1,517,981 $1,782,621 $1,930,681
Javonte Green $1,517,981 $0 $0
Guerschon Yabusele $1,039,080 $1,039,080 $0
Tacko Fall $449,115 $0 $0
Tremont Waters $449,115 $0 $0
Demetrius Jackson $92,857 $92,857 $92,857
TOTALS $118,253,678 $132,077,647 $95,626,895

Yeah, Boston is already at $133.5m guaranteed for next season, before factoring in a 1st round draft pick salary, too, and that would only be for 12 players total.

They won't be hard capped next year though and will have Bird rights for Theis as well as the TPE to bring in a guy or multiple depending on how they split it. So obviously not a great spot with how crazy expensive they'll be compared to their ceiling, but at least their hands won't be completely tied.

Although I'm not honestly sure of all the cap implications associated with the above. So maybe I'm wrong about the options.

Oh, they’ll have the means to add players, though only a couple roster spots to do so. The problem is they’ll just be paying a good amount of tax if they utilize them. More than they’ve paid combined in the history of the luxury tax. Moving Tristan’s salary would help. Otherwise, it’s really their core 4 and rookie contracts, so no other easy cuts to be made.

[Resistance]

Yeah, Boston is already at $133.5m guaranteed for next season, before factoring in a 1st round draft pick salary, too, and that would only be for 12 players total.

They won't be hard capped next year though and will have Bird rights for Theis as well as the TPE to bring in a guy or multiple depending on how they split it. So obviously not a great spot with how crazy expensive they'll be compared to their ceiling, but at least their hands won't be completely tied.

Although I'm not honestly sure of all the cap implications associated with the above. So maybe I'm wrong about the options.

The biggest impact might be on the exceptions available:

25. What are salary cap exceptions?

NON-TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "Apron" (see question number 20). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the Apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the Apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception.

TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is above the "Apron" (see question number 20). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the Apron must use this exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if doing so takes it above the Apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or the Room Mid-Level exception. It also cannot be used if the team has received a player that season in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92).

BI-ANNUAL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "Apron" (see question number 20). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the Apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the Apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used its Taxpayer Mid-Level or Room Mid-Level exception.

With a $112 million salary cap:

Taxpayer MLE: $5,868,265

Non - Taxpayer MLE: $9,500,893

BAE: $3,718,527


The Hayward TPE will still be there, but using it will very likely require sending an asset out while the Non-Taxpayer MLE and BAE are for signing free agents with no asset going out.

[cl2117]

Yeah, Boston is already at $133.5m guaranteed for next season, before factoring in a 1st round draft pick salary, too, and that would only be for 12 players total.

They won't be hard capped next year though and will have Bird rights for Theis as well as the TPE to bring in a guy or multiple depending on how they split it. So obviously not a great spot with how crazy expensive they'll be compared to their ceiling, but at least their hands won't be completely tied.

Although I'm not honestly sure of all the cap implications associated with the above. So maybe I'm wrong about the options.

The biggest impact might be on the exceptions available:

25. What are salary cap exceptions?

NON-TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "Apron" (see question number 20). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the Apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the Apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception.

TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is above the "Apron" (see question number 20). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the Apron must use this exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if doing so takes it above the Apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or the Room Mid-Level exception. It also cannot be used if the team has received a player that season in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92).

BI-ANNUAL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "Apron" (see question number 20). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the Apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the Apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used its Taxpayer Mid-Level or Room Mid-Level exception.

With a $112 million salary cap:

Taxpayer MLE: $5,868,265

Non - Taxpayer MLE: $9,500,893

BAE: $3,718,527


The Hayward TPE will still be there, but using it will very likely require sending an asset out while the Non-Taxpayer MLE and BAE are for signing free agents with no asset going out.

It'll require an asset going out, but it'll also allow them to get a player at a level above what they could for the MLE or BAE. I think it'd be a bigger loss of opportunity to let the TPE expire.

I'm not the one paying the bills though, so easy for me to say. Although if ownership wants to take the heat of Ainge/Brad, making them make moves to reduce the tax bill is an easy way to get the target on their back for being cheap instead.

[eitanr]

I was about to start a similar thread so happy you did.

I don’t see a route for Boston to contend this season:

1. Kemba’s value has lessened and his D liabilities are likely to continue to be exposed in playoffs
2. Outside of Tatum/Brown they don’t have A+ assets to construct a deal to get someone who can put them over the top
3. Brooklyn looks to have a better version of their team

Here’s how they should pivot:

1. Move Kemba to Bulls for OPJ/Tomas/pick swap
Why? Bulls make playoffs run, celts shed Kemba

2. Deal gives them insurance whether they miss playoffs or not to get a top 10 pick (Duke likely candidate, but Cade possible if they get lucky)

3. Deal ensures Tomas likely new stop gap PG allowing Boston to start Nesmith and increase his value rest of season

Off season:
1. hope is Nesmith value increases with more usage, Robert Williams’ value increase (along with PP and youth)
2. Celtics have better draft positioning
3. Celtics have more cap to get either PG or 6th man vet (Lowry, Fournier, DeRozan, Dragic)

Then Boston is in better position to make a deal for an A+ piece if need be, or can wait to do so. At the very least they are in position for such a deal if one pops up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TD2FutureStar]

What players would it take to land Vucevic? He seems like the best fit

[DroseReturnChi]

I was about to start a similar thread so happy you did.

I don’t see a route for Boston to contend this season:

1. Kemba’s value has lessened and his D liabilities are likely to continue to be exposed in playoffs
2. Outside of Tatum/Brown they don’t have A+ assets to construct a deal to get someone who can put them over the top
3. Brooklyn looks to have a better version of their team

Here’s how they should pivot:

1. Move Kemba to Bulls for OPJ/Tomas/pick swap
Why? Bulls make playoffs run, celts shed Kemba



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

woah woah. calm down there. I was excited until I read the word pick swap.
Even if the Bulls are looking for a star pg, they are saving Celtics hundreds of millions including tax bill and your saying Bulls should be punished for doing poor celtics a favor? OPJ/tomas is already my final offer although OPJ/Felicio seems extremely fair.
Remember the Bulls are a playoff rival with Celtics they have no reason to benefit 19 yr old tatum.

[eitanr]

I was about to start a similar thread so happy you did.

I don’t see a route for Boston to contend this season:

1. Kemba’s value has lessened and his D liabilities are likely to continue to be exposed in playoffs
2. Outside of Tatum/Brown they don’t have A+ assets to construct a deal to get someone who can put them over the top
3. Brooklyn looks to have a better version of their team

Here’s how they should pivot:

1. Move Kemba to Bulls for OPJ/Tomas/pick swap
Why? Bulls make playoffs run, celts shed Kemba



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

woah woah. calm down there. I was excited until I read the word pick swap.
Even if the Bulls are looking for a star pg, they are saving Celtics hundreds of millions including tax bill and your saying Bulls should be punished for doing poor celtics a favor? OPJ/tomas is already my final offer although OPJ/Felicio seems extremely fair.
Remember the Bulls are a playoff rival with Celtics they have no reason to benefit 19 yr old tatum.

Fine remove the pick swap. I still do it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dsorc]

Kemba is a sunk cost, but there's still a chance he could bounce back. Nothing you trade him for will have similar upside so there's no point in moving him. Cap savings are also not a factor as Boston will be over the cap for the near future. If anything, Boston might look to buy low on a piece seemed as surplus elsewhere: Harrison Barnes, Aaron Gordon, etc. Even then, the biggest improvement will likely come internally. The bench is very young and Nesmith in particular is just starting to get minutes. Tatum/Brown also need to get better at creating for others. Both can get very predictable with iso-ball.

[StreakyJ]

How about Kemba for Rubio? This might float offseason if Boston decides to run with Kemba this year.

Boston: Rubio, EDavis, Drummond
Minnesota: Kemba, TThompson
Cleveland: D'Angelo

BOSTON: cuts the Kemba burden in half ($$ and years). Rubio is a capable pass-first PG and defender to get Brown/Tatum in some sets to get more structured shots in their young prime, and add Drummond sucking up the paint for the rest of this year. EDavis expiring over TThompson 2yr. Pritchard, Langford and Nesmith get more minutes. Rubio's expiring contract next year is easier to move or keep as he's a valuable mentor for a young PG and a still a valuable back-up. Slight overpay until you see Kemba's contract climbing.

MINNESOTA: better fit in a professional Kemba able to run the offense, score, and better facilitate a developing AEdwards. New
scenery, new coach, no wonder-twin drama or slightly sociopathic management/coaching politics allows Kemba breathe and return to form just playing basketball, which is more important to him than the spotlight is. Minnesota fans dig it after the years of crappy uncaring losing on the Wiggins overpay. If nothing else they'll be more competitive night in and night out.
TThompson a professional defensive/interior assignment taking pressure of KAT to focus on offense running more pick'n'roll and pop up top with Kemba. KATs excuses for losing are also wearing thin, I'm not his biggest fan ... atleast here he gets a high functioning scoring/facilitating PG to stabilize the perimeter.

CLEVELAND: gets an off-ball scoring running mate for the assigned primary ball-handling Sexton. Overpay on Russell though not obscene, but it's Cleveland, and Drummond's market is thin, so it's a decent return overall, and Russell might actually open up a bit not carrying any floor-general burden in Cleveland. Silver lining that Russell is Ohio State alum, fan base can get behind a solid young core of Sexton/Russell/Allen. Doable.

[Texas Chuck]

Well at least Boston didn't rattle off a dominant win streak and make this thread look terrible.... And interesting to see Danny say publicly this roster sucks and its on him.

So surely they do something this year, right?

[hugepatsfan]

Well at least Boston didn't rattle off a dominant win streak and make this thread look terrible.... And interesting to see Danny say publicly this roster sucks and its on him.

So surely they do something this year, right?

You'd think so... but is it worth doing? Is this team worth investing in? Bad vibes on the team now. Offseason always brings fresh hope though. We kind of saw a version of this in '18-'19 with that awful flop of a year where they probably had one of the most talented rosters we've seen other than GS but no one played well. Adding Kemba really energized the team that offseason though (of course Hayward being himself off injury as well) and they turned it around. Now they're flopping again. You can try to patch it up, but is there anyone out there to really energize the team? Does a PJ Tucker, George Hill, Harrison Barnes type move really fix things mentally?

The logistics of using the TPEs become much easier in the offseason. At this point I'm almost inclined to just ride it out, let he bottom fall out, and then make my moves in the offeason when they have more flexibility as a team and the hope that comes with every team each year is fully there vs some half ass attempt to save a sinking ship.

[Texas Chuck]

You'd think so... but is it worth doing?

East is so down. Even with the struggles and the roster issues, a 2nd round appearance doesn't feel that far away to me.

OTOH, as you say more options potentially with the TPE in the off-season and more time to evaluate Kemba Walker and which of the kids besides Pritchard and TimeLord are definitely key rotation pieces next year if any.

I'm a go for it guy so I'd make a move assuming the price/player is right. I'd try and use Thompson/rookie contracts and keep my powder dry on the TPE unless it was for absolutely the right guy, but I'd want to do something.

[NYG]

Kemba Walker, Aaron Nesmith and Semi Ojeleye for Lonzo Ball, Eric Bledsoe and J.J. Redick

[eitanr]

I think there’s a crap for crap deal that can be done.

An earlier poster noted Rubio. Below are some other options who may be better fits:

Westbrook
Wall
Bledsoe/Ball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk