Boston ain't right -- How to fix?

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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#21 » by Prokorov » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:13 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Yeah Horford and Hayward leaving is because they didn't want to play for a coach who wasn't a former NBA player, not because they got offered huge 4 year deals.


I think you are over simplifying a complex situation. Do those guys even consider leaving if they are happy? Outisde of KD none are in better situations from a winning standpoint right now. And they got longer term deals but opted out of huge salaries and didnt seem to even talk ot boston about matching a big deal. it seemed that their priority was to leave. im sure money played a factor, but most good teams in major cities dont see 4 guys opt out/leave like that


I don't think what you're saying is accurate on Horford. When he opted out and all the reports were that he was negotiating an extension with Boston... until reports that a mystery team had a 4 year offer for $100M waiting and Boston wouldn't match.

Hayward you have a point, but he's said flat out that he wanted to go to CHA because he wanted to get back to the ball in his hands more. Like he's literally talked about it openly. Should BOS have promised him the ball more over Tatum/Brown? IDK what they could have done there.

Kyrie's situation... if he was a FA a year earlier he'd have re-signed in BOS. It was a terrible dynamic of him wanting to come back as a leader despite the immense success of the team without him a year prior, Hayward being back in name but not play and trying to work through that, all while Brown/Tatum were trying to continue their ascension. It was a bad dynamic that turned Kyrie sour on the team. And that was fair but Brown/Tatum have definitely fixed their career trajectories I'd say.

None of the circumstances of these guys leaving is anything troubling to me organization wise.


i think with heyward again, thats coaching/communication. if it is a philisophical difference then you tell ainge and you trade him isntead of watching a valuable guy walk for nothing.

Morris is another guy who bounced.

too many guys where unhappy with their roles or unclear with their roles. Ainge needs to solve for that and if he cant he needs to work with ainge to shuffle that deck. not just ignore it and watch those guys leave for next to nothing. The only guy they did actually trade was the only young guy who actually fit the tatum/brown timeline

again, pick a line and accelarate.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#22 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:16 pm

He was a free agent. Ainge can't trade him somewhere he doesn't want to go.

Doing a lot of gymnastics here to fit your desired narrative. Especially when most players leave for money and both guys got paid. Sometimes the obvious reason is the real reason.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#23 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:36 pm

Prokorov wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
I think you are over simplifying a complex situation. Do those guys even consider leaving if they are happy? Outisde of KD none are in better situations from a winning standpoint right now. And they got longer term deals but opted out of huge salaries and didnt seem to even talk ot boston about matching a big deal. it seemed that their priority was to leave. im sure money played a factor, but most good teams in major cities dont see 4 guys opt out/leave like that


I don't think what you're saying is accurate on Horford. When he opted out and all the reports were that he was negotiating an extension with Boston... until reports that a mystery team had a 4 year offer for $100M waiting and Boston wouldn't match.

Hayward you have a point, but he's said flat out that he wanted to go to CHA because he wanted to get back to the ball in his hands more. Like he's literally talked about it openly. Should BOS have promised him the ball more over Tatum/Brown? IDK what they could have done there.

Kyrie's situation... if he was a FA a year earlier he'd have re-signed in BOS. It was a terrible dynamic of him wanting to come back as a leader despite the immense success of the team without him a year prior, Hayward being back in name but not play and trying to work through that, all while Brown/Tatum were trying to continue their ascension. It was a bad dynamic that turned Kyrie sour on the team. And that was fair but Brown/Tatum have definitely fixed their career trajectories I'd say.

None of the circumstances of these guys leaving is anything troubling to me organization wise.


i think with heyward again, thats coaching/communication. if it is a philisophical difference then you tell ainge and you trade him isntead of watching a valuable guy walk for nothing.

Morris is another guy who bounced.

too many guys where unhappy with their roles or unclear with their roles. Ainge needs to solve for that and if he cant he needs to work with ainge to shuffle that deck. not just ignore it and watch those guys leave for next to nothing. The only guy they did actually trade was the only young guy who actually fit the tatum/brown timeline

again, pick a line and accelarate.


Trade Hayward sounds good in theory... but what were people offering on the deadline? He's a very good player but any team acquiring him was looking at him walking in free agency or opting in to a budget busting $34M. Not exactly ideal for trade value. Remember, BOS made an ECF last year. I don't think anything they got for Hayward would have justified not just keeping him as a rental. Think of it like Boston giving up a late 1st (through opportunity cost of not trading) for a rental to help with their ECF push. I can't really blame Ainge on that one.

Morris I agree with. Ainge botched that. No way he would have or should have dealt Horford or Kyrie that year, but I think moving Rozier and/or Morris could have helped some of the chemistry issues.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#24 » by Buzzard » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:42 pm

Kemba, Brown, Tatum. They are a talented big 3, but they are a smallish big three. They have lacked talented size since Horford bolted. One draft theory tossed around a lot is you draft BPA when in the high lottery. Once you are on the edge of being a playoff team or are a playoff team, you start drafting for position.

I think Ainge should draft a big with every pick he has. Or trade his recent wing picks for a young big. Kemba is not young; but Tatum and Brown are. Its not to late to think Boston can reset with those two as their future anchors and build some better paint presence around them.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#25 » by Prokorov » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:45 pm

Buzzard wrote:Kemba, Brown, Tatum. They are a talented big 3, but they are a smallish big three. They have lacked talented size since Horford bolted. One draft theory tossed around a lot is you draft BPA when in the high lottery. Once you are on the edge of being a playoff team or are a playoff team, you start drafting for position.

I think Ainge should draft a big with every pick he has. Or trade his recent wing picks for a young big. Kemba is a not young; but Tatum and Brown are. Its not to late to think Boston can reset with those two as their future anchors and build some better paint presence around them.


Boston should have been in on jarret allen. Cavs got him for the bucks pick and he would have easily fit into the TPE.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#26 » by BK_2020 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 pm

Lebron and Anthony Davis did not pick up their player options. I guess they weren't happy? Looks like the Lakers are an organization in turmoil and should start firing people.
Or maybe that's just business, players not picking up one year options to sign multiyear deals.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#27 » by Buzzard » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Kemba, Brown, Tatum. They are a talented big 3, but they are a smallish big three. They have lacked talented size since Horford bolted. One draft theory tossed around a lot is you draft BPA when in the high lottery. Once you are on the edge of being a playoff team or are a playoff team, you start drafting for position.

I think Ainge should draft a big with every pick he has. Or trade his recent wing picks for a young big. Kemba is not young; but Tatum and Brown are. Its not to late to think Boston can reset with those two as their future anchors and build some better paint presence around them.


Boston should have been in on jarret allen. Cavs got him for the bucks pick and he would have easily fit into the TPE.

Would Boston be in better shape if Ainge would have drafted for position and taken Stewart or Precious? My take is yes. They need to start filling the size and talent gaps between Kemba, Smart, Brown, and Tatum. Size and rebounding matters even in today's three ball dominant league.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#28 » by Prokorov » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:53 pm

BK_2020 wrote:Lebron and Anthony Davis did not pick up their player options. I guess they weren't happy? Looks like the Lakers are an organization in turmoil and should start firing people.
Or maybe that's just business, players not picking up one year options to sign multiyear deals.


those guys decline their options to stay. is that not different from declining your option to leave?

I see no comparison between the LA and Boston situation at all. Once is a detination stars bent over backwards to get to, then opted out to extend a longer deal with. the other is a place stars seem to bolt from and opt out to leave town
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#29 » by BK_2020 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:57 pm

The point is good players rarely pick up one year options, and the fact that players don't pick them up is not something you can build a mountain of inferences on.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#30 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:59 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Kemba, Brown, Tatum. They are a talented big 3, but they are a smallish big three. They have lacked talented size since Horford bolted. One draft theory tossed around a lot is you draft BPA when in the high lottery. Once you are on the edge of being a playoff team or are a playoff team, you start drafting for position.

I think Ainge should draft a big with every pick he has. Or trade his recent wing picks for a young big. Kemba is a not young; but Tatum and Brown are. Its not to late to think Boston can reset with those two as their future anchors and build some better paint presence around them.


Boston should have been in on jarret allen. Cavs got him for the bucks pick and he would have easily fit into the TPE.


The Cavs also ate the Taurean Waller-Prince contract as value in that deal. So, pick, and taking on bad salary for Allen. In theory, Boston could've done similar, but would've required TWP on the books.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#31 » by Prokorov » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:02 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Kemba, Brown, Tatum. They are a talented big 3, but they are a smallish big three. They have lacked talented size since Horford bolted. One draft theory tossed around a lot is you draft BPA when in the high lottery. Once you are on the edge of being a playoff team or are a playoff team, you start drafting for position.

I think Ainge should draft a big with every pick he has. Or trade his recent wing picks for a young big. Kemba is a not young; but Tatum and Brown are. Its not to late to think Boston can reset with those two as their future anchors and build some better paint presence around them.


Boston should have been in on jarret allen. Cavs got him for the bucks pick and he would have easily fit into the TPE.


The Cavs also ate the Taurean Waller-Prince contract as value in that deal. So, pick, and taking on bad salary for Allen. In theory, Boston could've done similar, but would've required TWP on the books.


they would have had to eat prince for 1 more year at 15M. Which isnt bad when you consider prince may have ended up being their best bench player at the moment. Both would have easliy fit into the TPE.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#32 » by Threezus » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:21 pm

Outside of Trae, Capela, and Hunter is their any combination of players and picks the Hawks can make or offer to get a Jaylen Brown from them? I'll let you build the package to see what it would look like that it would take to make you feel happy lol.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#33 » by Celts17Pride » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:22 pm

Threezus wrote:Outside of Trae, Capela, and Hunter is their any combination of players and picks the Hawks can make or offer to get a Jaylen Brown from them? I'll let you build the package to see what it would look like that it would take to make you feel happy lol.

Celtics are not moving Tatum or Brown. Celtics are building around those two.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#34 » by BK_2020 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:24 pm

Threezus wrote:Outside of Trae, Capela, and Hunter is their any combination of players and picks the Hawks can make or offer to get a Jaylen Brown from them? I'll let you build the package to see what it would look like that it would take to make you feel happy lol.

Would need Hunter + Okongwu + something.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#35 » by cjmcallist » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:29 pm

Man I dunno how to fix BOS. But, I agree with the sentiment on picking a target - I never understood why BOS would sign a 29 yr old Kemba, when their franchise player was 21. Just doesn't match up. Even the best are hardly ready to compete for a 'chip at 21/22.

So, decide if Tatum and Brown can win you the title NOW or in 2024. And if it's 2024, that's okay! Shoot - OKC is targeting the 2024 playoffs and the 2027* championship.

It matters, because if Tatum/Brown duo can't win right now (I think clearly they can't), then you acquire players that you think will help you win in 2024, not right now. Probably that means you look to target RFA's this offseason, or you re-stock with currency (draft picks) to buy the next player that fits your target.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#36 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:35 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Boston should have been in on jarret allen. Cavs got him for the bucks pick and he would have easily fit into the TPE.


The Cavs also ate the Taurean Waller-Prince contract as value in that deal. So, pick, and taking on bad salary for Allen. In theory, Boston could've done similar, but would've required TWP on the books.


they would have had to eat prince for 1 more year at 15M. Which isnt bad when you consider prince may have ended up being their best bench player at the moment. Both would have easliy fit into the TPE.


As a BRK fan, would you have done that? Would you rather have sent Allen, the hypothetical answer to BOS's center rotation and Prince, who you said would be their best bench player, to BOS over CLE? Having both options there, wouldn't you send them to CLE?
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#37 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:39 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Buzzard wrote:Kemba, Brown, Tatum. They are a talented big 3, but they are a smallish big three. They have lacked talented size since Horford bolted. One draft theory tossed around a lot is you draft BPA when in the high lottery. Once you are on the edge of being a playoff team or are a playoff team, you start drafting for position.

I think Ainge should draft a big with every pick he has. Or trade his recent wing picks for a young big. Kemba is not young; but Tatum and Brown are. Its not to late to think Boston can reset with those two as their future anchors and build some better paint presence around them.


Boston should have been in on jarret allen. Cavs got him for the bucks pick and he would have easily fit into the TPE.

Would Boston be in better shape if Ainge would have drafted for position and taken Stewart or Precious? My take is yes. They need to start filling the size and talent gaps between Kemba, Smart, Brown, and Tatum. Size and rebounding matters even in today's three ball dominant league.


Precious and Stewart are both 6'8". Would be more of the same for BOS of guys without the needed size. And don't get me wrong, I liked Precious and would have picked him at #14. But that's about down the line potential. Don't think him or Stewart would do anything for BOS this year. Stewart is a worse player than Thompson/Theis/Timelord and Achiuwa is a PF not a C and we already have the issue of poor spacing when we use a non shooting big man at the 4.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#38 » by Prokorov » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:40 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
The Cavs also ate the Taurean Waller-Prince contract as value in that deal. So, pick, and taking on bad salary for Allen. In theory, Boston could've done similar, but would've required TWP on the books.


they would have had to eat prince for 1 more year at 15M. Which isnt bad when you consider prince may have ended up being their best bench player at the moment. Both would have easliy fit into the TPE.


As a BRK fan, would you have done that? Would you rather have sent Allen, the hypothetical answer to BOS's center rotation and Prince, who you said would be their best bench player, to BOS over CLE? Having both options there, wouldn't you send them to CLE?


whatever it takes to get Harden. once we get him, it doesnt matter. boston wasnt beating us with or without those guys
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#39 » by Buzzard » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:49 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Boston should have been in on jarret allen. Cavs got him for the bucks pick and he would have easily fit into the TPE.

Would Boston be in better shape if Ainge would have drafted for position and taken Stewart or Precious? My take is yes. They need to start filling the size and talent gaps between Kemba, Smart, Brown, and Tatum. Size and rebounding matters even in today's three ball dominant league.


Precious and Stewart are both 6'8". Would be more of the same for BOS of guys without the needed size. And don't get me wrong, I liked Precious and would have picked him at #14. But that's about down the line potential. Don't think him or Stewart would do anything for BOS this year. Stewart is a worse player than Thompson/Theis/Timelord and Achiuwa is a PF not a C and we already have the issue of poor spacing when we use a non shooting big man at the 4.

For me it goes to playing time, their bench, and their future. Would Stewart or Precious be more useful than Nesmith? The other thing is does Ainge approach free agency the same way if he would have drafted a big?

The Hawks totally chased shooters and a bu PG after they drafted 6'8" Okongwu. He is a shorty as well for a big. But has a great wing span.
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Re: Boston ain't right -- How to fix? 

Post#40 » by Threezus » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:07 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
Threezus wrote:Outside of Trae, Capela, and Hunter is their any combination of players and picks the Hawks can make or offer to get a Jaylen Brown from them? I'll let you build the package to see what it would look like that it would take to make you feel happy lol.

Would need Hunter + Okongwu + something.


Damnit man can't we do something besides Hunter? Maybe like a Collins + Reddish + OO + Rondo if ya want him back XD

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