Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings

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Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#1 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:10 pm

Again same caveat as the earlier thread. Play-in changes things where more teams want to stick with it, but shorter schedule means less time to make up ground. Kings currently sit 12th in the West 2.5 games out of a play-in spot and 5.5 out of the gtd spot in 6th. On a 7 game losing streak.

They also have a really long streak of not making the playoffs so if they have any kind of shot, I think they owe it to themselves to try and make it. Maybe not buy, but definitely don't sell off any rotation players.

Front office change unlikely so soon, but Luke Walton has to be on one of the hotter seats. COVID may be protecting him as they don't want to pay 2 coaches. Maybe if they make a trade that sheds salary they could also shed him?

Some obvious pieces to sell:
Bjelica -- one year expiring, been in and out of the rotation, struggling with his shot this year, but proven shooter with size
Holmes -- they only have Early Bird Rights so if they fear a big offer they might not can keep him. Cheap salary, obvious pick-up for a contender.
Barnes--young enough to stick with the backcourt, but should return them something decent as teams are always looking for combo forwards who can shoot and aren't defensive liabilities.
Whiteside -- won't return much, but min contract means can go anywhere and he could help a team with a center need

Some others:
Buddy -- not a lot of value on that number, but he shoots and is still young enough that he should survive that contract so someone would probably take a flier
Bagley -- no idea how to value him. Think for the Kings it would be more we don't want to invest more time in this and let's try and salvage anything

Expirings(or close) :
Parker
Joseph

Both negative value on their own, but can be used as filler to make numbers work as needed.

Picks -- they own all their own and have 5 additional 2nds so they have ammunition to buy.

So Buy, Sell, Hold?
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#2 » by youngcrev » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:16 pm

I say sell.

While going after a bubble slot feels attractive, they feel like a long shot even for that. And the nature of so many teams looking themselves as playoff contenders should create a seller's market, leading toward some possible unique opportunities to move some of these guys for value that I would normally consider negative value propositions.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#3 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:23 pm

youngcrev wrote:I say sell.

While going after a bubble slot feels attractive, they feel like a long shot even for that. And the nature of so many teams looking themselves as playoff contenders should create a seller's market, leading toward some possible unique opportunities to move some of these guys for value that I would normally consider negative value propositions.


I agree 100% just in terms of value. But if you are 2 games out of 10 do you let Fox make a run for it knowing you aren't sacrificing that much value in terms of Bjelica/Holmes/Whiteside and you could still deal Barnes/Buddy in the off-season?

IDK. The theorist in me definitely wants to trade. The guy having seen over 15 years of absolute misery wants even a slight shot to get obliterated by Utah or an LA team in round 1.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#4 » by BoogieTime » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:30 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Bagley -- no idea how to value him. Think for the Kings it would be more we don't want to invest more time in this and let's try and salvage anything


For you, and IMO what is your consistent, rather annoying bias against him and the top half of the draft class

Kings fans in general, and I’m guessing the FO think any such thoughts is way preconceived.

He’s not moving if someone isn’t giving up value

As for the thread they shouldn’t be buyers IMO, team has quit on Walton and it’s a good draft
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#5 » by loserX » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:34 pm

Yeah, the Kings are currently working on the second longest playoff drought in NBA *history*...and with the play-in games this year, their odds are going to be unusually good.

So while I don't think they should sell the entire farm to run out a team of Fox and twelve 35-year-olds, I also think they should be making small buys and going for it. They should at least try to get off the schneid. (Side thought: "Get Off the Schneid" would be a terrific name for a sitcom and an absolutely lousy slogan for a team's NBA season.)

In another thread I suggested cashing in their boatload of extra 2nds (they have far more than they could ever roster) and trade Joseph to Detroit for Wright, then whatever to Houston for Tucker. Both will need to be an overpay in terms of value-in-a-vacuum, but busting the slump should hold more value to this Kings team than the diminishing return of umpteen 2nd rounders. That gives them a better fit at backup PG next to Haliburton, and a veteran defender they badly need.

I understand the desire to blow it up again. I just wonder with 14 playoff-less years already under the belt, how much appetite they have to tell their fans "give us another 3-to-5". Scrape in now, you can always sell again in the offseason if that's the gambit.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#6 » by loserX » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:35 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Bagley -- no idea how to value him. Think for the Kings it would be more we don't want to invest more time in this and let's try and salvage anything


For you, and IMO what is your consistent, rather annoying bias against him and the top half of the draft class


"Not liking a player" is not the same as "being biased" against him. You're going to need to be a little more tolerant of dissenting opinions.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#7 » by youngcrev » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
youngcrev wrote:I say sell.

While going after a bubble slot feels attractive, they feel like a long shot even for that. And the nature of so many teams looking themselves as playoff contenders should create a seller's market, leading toward some possible unique opportunities to move some of these guys for value that I would normally consider negative value propositions.


I agree 100% just in terms of value. But if you are 2 games out of 10 do you let Fox make a run for it knowing you aren't sacrificing that much value in terms of Bjelica/Holmes/Whiteside and you could still deal Barnes/Buddy in the off-season?

IDK. The theorist in me definitely wants to trade. The guy having seen over 15 years of absolute misery wants even a slight shot to get obliterated by Utah or an LA team in round 1.


I'm looking moreso at Barnes and Hield as the potential sell pieces. Particularly Barnes. They might even squeeze a 1st out of some poor team that needs a starting forward.

Breaking the missed playoff streak with a play-in, no crowd game feels like a pretty empty thing to me (and you'd have people questioning whether that should even count as making th playoffs).

Love Fox, and I get that they've had more than a few opportunities in the lottery to find talent to put next to him (and they have actually gotten a pretty good one this year), but I think they've got to keep hoping to hit a home run in the draft.

I'd sell off anything someone wants to give you value for besides Fox and Haliburton. Start those 2, put Bagley at the 5, and just play at some insane pace the rest of the year to give people something exciting to watch
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#8 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 pm

BoogieTime wrote:For you, and IMO what is your consistent, rather annoying bias against him and the top half of the draft class



I've asked you nicely on other boards to stop spamming this false narrative. If you wish to debate Bagley's place on this thread with me, cool. I'd be happy to. But I'm not going to let you continue to paint me with this brush.

Especially since you are well aware that before Luka or Bagley were drafted I was a huge Luka champion(and remember Dallas sat at 5 with no chance to get him unless a bunch of teams made a huge mistake) and was really down on Bagley.

So you constantly implying that my opinions are homer and that I feel the need to trash other players to elevate Luka is not only baseless it also ignores the reality that each player's goodness is independent of each other.

From that draft -- Trae has been great, SGA has been great, Mikal has been great, Ayton has been solid, JJJ is intriguing if he can get healthy and so on. The fact that Bagley has been a disappointment is about Bagley. It's not about Luka

Enough.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#9 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:38 pm

The Kings currently have the 7th pick. Folks aren't going to games. I'm not saying full tank, but I'm not chasing the 10th seed either.

I'm trying to move Bjelica and Holmes for value since they are expiring. I'm trading Buddy if I can get off his salary and get a little something. I'm trading Barnes if I like the value, but I'm not sweating trying to dump him. I'm keeping Bagley and still looking for him to break out.

Fox/Hali/Bagley and I'm looking to draft a top wing.

In terms of a trade I like something like Zeller, protected 1st for Bjelica/Holmes.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#10 » by BoogieTime » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:39 pm

loserX wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Bagley -- no idea how to value him. Think for the Kings it would be more we don't want to invest more time in this and let's try and salvage anything


For you, and IMO what is your consistent, rather annoying bias against him and the top half of the draft class


"Not liking a player" is not the same as "being biased" against him. You're going to need to be a little more tolerant of dissenting opinions.


He has a documented history of having harsher opinions on every top pick of that draft

He compared Trae Young to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf last season I believe

I’d invite anyone to view his history on Ayton and Jackson as well
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#11 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:39 pm

Damn Chuck we must have been thinking about this at the same time. I've been writing up an entire sell off post the last 30 minutes. I posted in, it includes Dallas! Its long but I'll include it here if you want to delete my post and keep things tidy, I understand.

Trade 1: NY & Sac

Sac out | NY in: Buddy Hield, 2021 2nd round pick
Sac in | NY out: Frank, (any other player from the Knicks, Rivers/Burks/Payton/Ignas/Bullock to match salaries)

Why for the Knicks? Simple.. Thibs has turned this teams defense around. Under Thibs they are 1st in Opp PPG, and 3rd in Def Rtg. They are still 23rd in offense and 30th in ppg. Simple enough, they need scoring. Buddy needs a coach like Thibs to keep him in check, and he needs multiple guys who can handle the rock and put him in a position to succeed.

Trade 2: Portland & Sacramento

Sac out| Por In: Barnes, Whiteside
Sac in | Por Out: DJJ or Hood, Collins, Simons, any minimum salary

Why for Portland? They need another big wing. Hood/DJJ haven't worked out for them the way they hoped and there was just a thread on this a day or 2 ago. Insert Barnes. A class act of a player, and a do it all guy. In Portland he can be the 4th or 5th option any given night and have the pressure taken off of him. Whiteside fills in as a familiar face while Nurkic is out.

Trade 3: Dallas and Sac

Sac out | Dallas In: Bjelica, Joseph
Dallas out | Sac in: James Johnson, Boban

Why for Dallas? Maybe Chuck is the only guy left wanting Bjelica, but the fit makes sense. Hes another guy who can stretch the floor for them up front. Joseph is only guaranteed 2.4 million next year but hes been playing better as of late. If there's a guy who could get the most out of him its Carlisle.

Kings final roster

Holmes/Collins
Bagley/Woodard
DJJ/Jeffries
Haliburton/Simons
Fox/Frank

Why for Kings? We finally pick a direction. Let the team fail miserably this year under Walton, get a top draft pick, and a new coach next year. This clears up a ton of flexibility and lets Monte build the team he actually wants. We get an early look at Frank and Collins and can resign them or let them walk. DJJ and Frank bring two plus defenders to a team last in the league in defense. We go young, fast, and athletic. Fox and co played their best when we had the #1 pace in the league, we try to replicate that.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#12 » by bondom34 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:39 pm

OK, so the Kings are a weird case to me (not in a bad way, just they're not really buyers or sellers but depends on the player). Don't think they should commit fully either way but depending on the player and return just roll with what comes their way, and depending on who the guy is just go one way or the other.

If I'm them I'd look more into selling Bjelica, as he's not as heavy into the rotation and expiring and could fetch some decent value. Don't see a big drop in terms of their on court play but they can get something real I'd think. One of Whiteside or Holmes if there's a market and they can get something I'd tend to feel similar (feel more like they can get something for Holmes but unless it's something decent or someone signed a little longer maybe I'd rather keep him).

Barnes and Hield I'd say if you can get value or in Hield's case even move for neutral value go for it assuming it's not totally tanking on court value and there's just dead salary coming back. Bagley I'd move as well but don't see them actually doing.

Think they should go for it if they stay in shouting distance as well but their players and how they're valued makes it a strange case.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#13 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:43 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
youngcrev wrote:I say sell.

While going after a bubble slot feels attractive, they feel like a long shot even for that. And the nature of so many teams looking themselves as playoff contenders should create a seller's market, leading toward some possible unique opportunities to move some of these guys for value that I would normally consider negative value propositions.


I agree 100% just in terms of value. But if you are 2 games out of 10 do you let Fox make a run for it knowing you aren't sacrificing that much value in terms of Bjelica/Holmes/Whiteside and you could still deal Barnes/Buddy in the off-season?

IDK. The theorist in me definitely wants to trade. The guy having seen over 15 years of absolute misery wants even a slight shot to get obliterated by Utah or an LA team in round 1.


They missed the boat imo. The time to buy was 2 weeks ago. The team was rolling, but the flaws even during the win streak were obvious. We are 6 deep with legit rotation guys. Now maybe any one of Joseph/Whiteside/Bjelica/Robinson could slot in just fine as a teams 8th or 9th guy, but when they make up the entirety of our bench, it just doesn't work.

We've seen what happened. Fox missed some time and still doesn't look right. Bagley/Barnes/Holmes have all missed some time. We straight up crashed and burned. Now barring some miraculous 5-10 game win streak things are looking bleak.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#14 » by Buzzard » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:48 pm

I like Bagley and do not think you ever sell low on a top five pick. I am almost of the mindset that a Bagley/Collins swap could be good for both the players and the franchises.

The only things that hold me back from being all in on that is: Bagley's injury history and Collins playing better defense this year.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#15 » by loserX » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:50 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
loserX wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
For you, and IMO what is your consistent, rather annoying bias against him and the top half of the draft class


"Not liking a player" is not the same as "being biased" against him. You're going to need to be a little more tolerant of dissenting opinions.


He has a documented history of having harsher opinions on every top pick of that draft

He compared Trae Young to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf last season I believe

I’d invite anyone to view his history on Ayton and Jackson as well


I'm not particularly interested in chasing down anyone's posts about Jaren Jackson, but even if everything you say is true, that doesn't change what I said.

He, like everyone else on this board is free to like or not like players without having people complain about his "bias". The notion that someone is somehow biased against half a draft class seems particularly silly to me anyway.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#16 » by BoogieTime » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:00 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:For you, and IMO what is your consistent, rather annoying bias against him and the top half of the draft class



I've asked you nicely on other boards to stop spamming this false narrative. If you wish to debate Bagley's place on this thread with me, cool. I'd be happy to. But I'm not going to let you continue to paint me with this brush.

Especially since you are well aware that before Luka or Bagley were drafted I was a huge Luka champion(and remember Dallas sat at 5 with no chance to get him unless a bunch of teams made a huge mistake) and was really down on Bagley.

So you constantly implying that my opinions are homer and that I feel the need to trash other players to elevate Luka is not only baseless it also ignores the reality that each player's goodness is independent of each other.

From that draft -- Trae has been great, SGA has been great, Mikal has been great, Ayton has been solid, JJJ is intriguing if he can get healthy and so on. The fact that Bagley has been a disappointment is about Bagley. It's not about Luka

Enough.


I can do better to not get irritated by the “bias”, even though it IMO is resulting in argumentative takes

I’ll just answer the takes bluntly, they aren’t giving up on him now
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#17 » by MagicBagley18 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:01 pm

I’d say given the fact they haven’t sniffed the playoffs in however many years- they probably do owe it to the fan base to try and make it this year. I think they’d be better off selling personally but I also understand the desire to at least compete for the play in. It may also be good for the young players as well.

That said if someone comes knocking with a too good to pass up deal for Barnes u take it.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#18 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:03 pm

BoogieTime wrote:I’ll just answer the takes bluntly, they aren’t giving up on him now


Perfect. That's all I'm asking. I don't dismiss your takes as biased and simply want the same in return. Never asked you to agree and don't need you to sugarcoat.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#19 » by FNQ » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:06 pm

loserX wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
loserX wrote:
"Not liking a player" is not the same as "being biased" against him. You're going to need to be a little more tolerant of dissenting opinions.


He has a documented history of having harsher opinions on every top pick of that draft

He compared Trae Young to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf last season I believe

I’d invite anyone to view his history on Ayton and Jackson as well


I'm not particularly interested in chasing down anyone's posts about Jaren Jackson, but even if everything you say is true, that doesn't change what I said.

He, like everyone else on this board is free to like or not like players without having people complain about his "bias". The notion that someone is somehow biased against half a draft class seems particularly silly to me anyway.


Yeah reducing opinions to 'bias' is just subtle shots at a person's process.. people land on different opinions all the time or this forum would be just posts saying "I agree!" to every single offer. Bias is having an unfair prejudice about someone or something, typically illogical.

And FTR, a 2 parter:

- I see nothing wrong w/comping MAR to Trae, as MAR would thrive in today's game
- people on the trade board have a lot of opinions across 32 teams, for them to know the intricate levels of every prospect on every team, every system employed, every college prospect... its crazy. To assume its malicious, to assume its bias.. thats overboard
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#20 » by BoogieTime » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:15 pm

FNQ wrote:
loserX wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
He has a documented history of having harsher opinions on every top pick of that draft

He compared Trae Young to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf last season I believe

I’d invite anyone to view his history on Ayton and Jackson as well


I'm not particularly interested in chasing down anyone's posts about Jaren Jackson, but even if everything you say is true, that doesn't change what I said.

He, like everyone else on this board is free to like or not like players without having people complain about his "bias". The notion that someone is somehow biased against half a draft class seems particularly silly to me anyway.


Yeah reducing opinions to 'bias' is just subtle shots at a person's process.. people land on different opinions all the time or this forum would be just posts saying "I agree!" to every single offer. Bias is having an unfair prejudice about someone or something, typically illogical.

And FTR, a 2 parter:

- I see nothing wrong w/comping MAR to Trae, as MAR would thrive in today's game
- people on the trade board have a lot of opinions across 32 teams, for them to know the intricate levels of every prospect on every team, every system employed, every college prospect... its crazy. To assume its malicious, to assume its bias.. thats overboard


I read a lot of takes from a lot of posters. Personally I think if you looked at Chuck’s history on Ayton, Bagley, Young and Jackson, and assessed how the general fans on Real GM feel about them, Chuck would have a 1 in a sliding scale of 1-5 opinion on all said players

The every day poster may look at my reaction towards him as petty and not accurate

If it doesn’t contribute to the discussion to note that in my reply to him, I can ignore it and not say it

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