Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings

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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#21 » by FNQ » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:26 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
I read a lot of takes from a lot of posters. Personally I think if you looked at Chuck’s history on Ayton, Bagley, Young and Jackson, and assessed how the general fans on Real GM feel about them, Chuck would have a 1 in a sliding scale of 1-5 opinion on all said players

The every day poster may look at my reaction towards him as petty and not accurate

If it doesn’t contribute to the discussion to note that in my reply to him, I can ignore it and not say it


I dont think having an opinion differing from the realGM consensus is a bad thing at all :D

Honestly I find that when most people are challenged on 'majority' opinions, their argument just tends to be volume based - "look at how many people agree!" - which doesn't reinforce an argument to me at all. I think a lot of widely accepted analyses on players are often times wrong because they are too general and I find myself at odds with people constantly because of it. With players who are not Warriors, never have been Warriors, etc etc.. is that bias? I'd think bias would be more like "KD is barely a top 20 player" - something patently untrue and obviously influenced by something unrelated

But when I say things like "I think Isaac Okoro was a regrettable top 5 pick", I might not be with the majority there, but there's no underlying reason behind it other than thinking Okoro just wasnt that good

Because funny enough, of the 4 prospects you listed up there, I'd probably only be a non 1 for JJJ/Trae.. and I obviously have minimal skin in the game personally because the W's never had access to any of those 4 :dontknow:
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#22 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:27 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
I read a lot of takes from a lot of posters. Personally I think if you looked at Chuck’s history on Ayton, Bagley, Young and Jackson, and assessed how the general fans on Real GM feel about them, Chuck would have a 1 in a sliding scale of 1-5 opinion on all said players

The every day poster may look at my reaction towards him as petty and not accurate

If it doesn’t contribute to the discussion to note that in my reply to him, I can ignore it and not say it



Not sure that I'm surprised that you went ahead and did this again after I asked you to stop. Or did it again after you claimed you would.

I am disappointed. And disappointed that a poster and-1'd this.


And I'm closing this with a notice to all who see it -- if someone else wants to misrepresent another posters' opinions repeatedly especially after said poster has corrected them multiple times including within the thread, I will not stand for it as a Mod of this forum.

Because its me, I guess I have to, but do this to another poster and you and I are going to have a problem. Just so everyone is clear.
ThunderBolt wrote:Some of you guys need understand that not every play is a prophetic vision of the player's career trajectory.

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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#23 » by JasonStern » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:56 am

Keep the younger core together, shop short-term pieces like Bjelica/Whiteside/Parker knowing that you aren't going to get much value, and see if there are any young players on bad teams that could opportunistically be poached and given a fresh start.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#24 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:05 am

FNQ wrote:
loserX wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
He has a documented history of having harsher opinions on every top pick of that draft

He compared Trae Young to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf last season I believe

I’d invite anyone to view his history on Ayton and Jackson as well


I'm not particularly interested in chasing down anyone's posts about Jaren Jackson, but even if everything you say is true, that doesn't change what I said.

He, like everyone else on this board is free to like or not like players without having people complain about his "bias". The notion that someone is somehow biased against half a draft class seems particularly silly to me anyway.


Yeah reducing opinions to 'bias' is just subtle shots at a person's process.. people land on different opinions all the time or this forum would be just posts saying "I agree!" to every single offer. Bias is having an unfair prejudice about someone or something, typically illogical.

And FTR, a 2 parter:

- I see nothing wrong w/comping MAR to Trae, as MAR would thrive in today's game
- people on the trade board have a lot of opinions across 32 teams, for them to know the intricate levels of every prospect on every team, every system employed, every college prospect... its crazy. To assume its malicious, to assume its bias.. thats overboard


Yeah...MAR was a REALLY good player! And he played in a much slower pace era with hand checking. I can only imagine what he would’ve done in this current style of play.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#25 » by rpa » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:54 am

The short term thinking of "we need to just get to the playoffs" is partially responsible for why the Kings are where they're at. Vivek--in particular--needs to STFU and let McNair run the team as he sees fit. My guess is that means selling vets for minor assets and allowing the team to bottom out going into a top heavy draft. More granular plan:

- Decide whether Holmes is in your long term plans and if you're willing to pay him the $10-12mil a year it'll take to keep him. As good as he's played I'd say no--given the Kings' window.
- Ship Barnes off. His value is going to be artificially inflated due to a lack of sellers this season. Leverage that to unload his salary and get back a 1st (ideally from Boston).
- Keep Hield unless someone overpays. His declining contract combined with a new coach next year could (should?) push his value up. Plus you can't look like you're going full tank.
- Trade Bjelica/Whiteside for whatever you can get (2nd rounders).
- Buyout Joseph if you can't use him in a tax deal

I'd see if you can consolidate the more minor assets here to get a better deal. Maybe that means combining Holmes/Barnes/Bjelica/Whiteside (some combination) to the Celtics and taking back Thompson in order to take back more assets.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#26 » by babyjax13 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:12 am

Sell everything but Fox/Hali/picks (and hopefully sell enough you can keep Holmes).
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#27 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:14 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
FNQ wrote:
loserX wrote:
I'm not particularly interested in chasing down anyone's posts about Jaren Jackson, but even if everything you say is true, that doesn't change what I said.

He, like everyone else on this board is free to like or not like players without having people complain about his "bias". The notion that someone is somehow biased against half a draft class seems particularly silly to me anyway.


Yeah reducing opinions to 'bias' is just subtle shots at a person's process.. people land on different opinions all the time or this forum would be just posts saying "I agree!" to every single offer. Bias is having an unfair prejudice about someone or something, typically illogical.

And FTR, a 2 parter:

- I see nothing wrong w/comping MAR to Trae, as MAR would thrive in today's game
- people on the trade board have a lot of opinions across 32 teams, for them to know the intricate levels of every prospect on every team, every system employed, every college prospect... its crazy. To assume its malicious, to assume its bias.. thats overboard


Yeah...MAR was a REALLY good player! And he played in a much slower pace era with hand checking. I can only imagine what he would’ve done in this current style of play.



You can go there, I will point out the 32 team thing.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#28 » by blind prophet » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:19 am

We need to sell Chuck.

Fox & Haliburton are the only keepers.

With Bagley the return wouldn't be worth moving on. Problem here is the threat we over pay long term with an extension down the road. Ride with him until you have to make that call, then get that call correct.

McNair has to be able to predict the Holmes salary and decide if he wants to potentially pay it or not. We could use him if we can afford him.

I'd move Barnes to Boston for as much as I could get.

Buddy has negative value. I don't think we should pay to ship him out. We need all the assets we have. Pray he re coups some value as his contract declines.

Bjelica is a must move too. Grab what we can.

Whiteside can probably land a second.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#29 » by NYG » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:20 am

I would shop Hield I think, but wouldn’t trade him unless I got an offer from a team that saw him as positive value.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#30 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:58 am

blind prophet wrote:We need to sell Chuck.
.


Pretty sure my value is at an all-time low. I'd hold and hope some coaching can rehab some value.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#31 » by blind prophet » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:01 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
blind prophet wrote:We need to sell Chuck.
.


Pretty sure my value is at an all-time low. I'd hold and hope some coaching can rehab some value.


I think promoting Gentry would help a little bit. But the Boston TPE and them really under pressure to make a move may be the best opportunity we have to move Barnes.

The big question mark is Holmes. Makes it easier to take our chances with him in negotiations later if Barnes gets moved, that's a side perk if McNair may want to keep him.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#32 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:03 am

I'm confused what conversation we are having. I thought you were saying to sell me. :D But maybe there was a key missing comma where you meant we need to sell, Chuck.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#33 » by SNPA » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:07 am

It depends on the draft. If McNair sees a player(s) that will be around late lotto that he believes are franchise altering (all star level minimum) then sell. If that player does not exist outside the top 5 then take advantage of Hali’s emergence and try to be in the playin games. At some point you have to try to win. The culture needs to change. Guys need to get a taste. Barring a pick I couldn’t pass up I’d go for it (without leveraging the future except for an all star).
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#34 » by SNPA » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:10 am

Also, could dump Walton and roll with Gentry post break. That’d make a huge difference. The Kings have enough talent to make the playin games.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#35 » by Bentley1225 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:34 am

Bjelica and Whiteside have value and there is a distinct market for them. If they can get 3 2nds between the 2 of them, it’s a no brainer

I think Holmes should be kept and ideally signed to a 3 year, $30 million deal but market will be dictated by Allen & Drummond.

Stay patient with Bagley and Hield

Deal Barnes at the draft either to move up or if they select a quality wing with their own pick, deal him for a another mid round 2021 1st IMO preferably a big.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#36 » by becorz » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:04 am

My feel is that the Kings are probably going to only make changes on the fringes if they see deals that will help them long term, but I don't see them being buyers.

I think that Barnes is going to be kept around as the veteran presence on the team. He likely doesn't have great value because it is hard for teams to fit his salary in their cap. (This is coming from the guy who said the Kings won't trade Ariza or Shumpert for their veteran presence so...)

I also don't see them trading Hield because of Vivek's love for him, but I do think it is more likely now that Halliburton is around. I could see McNair trying to push him out of town for a package of mostly expiring contracts. If the Kings do make a big move, I think it would be around Buddy and not Barnes as people think. Now that we are out of small sample size city, the Fox/Halliburton/Buddy lineup is looking worse and worse.

I don't see Bagley going anywhere because his value is in the same boat as Buddy's....too much money for the upside the Kings are getting. I think he is kept around to try and develop...and then he is an expiring contract next season to use for trades.

Holmes is an interesting case and I am fascinated to see what he gets in the offseason. Most Kings fans seem to have him pegged on a three year deal at $10m per in the offseason. I am not sure how this front office is going to value a center in the middle of a rebuild. They at least have the crowded free agent market to maybe drive down the price.

I think it is pretty much a given the Bjelica is out the door at some point. I love the guy and wish him well. I think Whiteside could be gone for second or two, which I think was the team's plan from the get go. Could happen with Robinson if a team is desperate. But I could see the Kings staying put on Whiteside/Robinson for their playoff push.

End of the day, I think the Kings are too close to the play in game to make many changes. But McNair will probably snag some seconds if he can.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#37 » by kb02 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:51 pm

Keep Fox, Bags, Hali and the kids (Wooddard, Metu, Guy). Trade the rest. Tank and go for another cornerstone.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#38 » by SNPA » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:08 pm

kb02 wrote:Keep Fox, Bags, Hali and the kids (Wooddard, Metu, Guy). Trade the rest. Tank and go for another cornerstone.

I’m onboard with that if we can identify which players this includes. Because that’s only a good plan if Sac has a shot at that player(s) without winning the lotto, so basically this player(s) need to be around mid-late lotto. And there really should be more than one otherwise it’s just so risky. Tanking for a starter level player isn’t worth it IMO, there needs to be high upside.
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#39 » by Morris_Shatford » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:44 pm

If y'all end up thinking about trading Holmes can someone call up Masai?
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Re: Bubble Teams --- Sacramento Kings 

Post#40 » by JediMasterRevan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:06 pm

They need to sell.

Deep draft coming up, they got gifted Haliburton. Build this team up around Fox and Hali.

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