Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland)

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Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#1 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:31 pm

Its official. After a great 8 game streak beating teams like the Raptors, Pelicans, Celtics, Nuggets, and Clippers we proceed to lose 7 straight (likely 8 after tonights matchup with Brooklyn). Fox seems to be playing hurt, Barnes/Holmes/Bagley have all missed a few games, and our league worst coach looks way in over his head. It seems like Vivek is unwilling to fire Walton, and I've lost faith that we can ever be even a .500 ball club with him leading the way. So embrace the tank..

Trade 1: NY & Sac

Sac out | NY in: Buddy Hield, 2021 2nd round pick
Sac in | NY out: Frank, (any other player from the Knicks, Rivers/Burks/Payton/Ignas/Bullock to match salaries)

Why for the Knicks? Simple.. Thibs has turned this teams defense around. Under Thibs they are 1st in Opp PPG, and 3rd in Def Rtg. They are still 23rd in offense and 30th in ppg. Simple enough, they need scoring. Buddy needs a coach like Thibs to keep him in check, and he needs multiple guys who can handle the rock and put him in a position to succeed.

Trade 2: Portland & Sacramento

Sac out| Por In: Barnes, Whiteside
Sac in | Por Out: DJJ or Hood, Collins, Simons, any minimum salary

Why for Portland? They need another big wing. Hood/DJJ haven't worked out for them the way they hoped and there was just a thread on this a day or 2 ago. Insert Barnes. A class act of a player, and a do it all guy. In Portland he can be the 4th or 5th option any given night and have the pressure taken off of him. Whiteside fills in as a familiar face while Nurkic is out.

Trade 3: Dallas and Sac

Sac out | Dallas In: Bjelica, Joseph
Dallas out | Sac in: James Johnson, Boban

Why for Dallas? Maybe Chuck is the only guy left wanting Bjelica, but the fit makes sense. Hes another guy who can stretch the floor for them up front. Joseph is only guaranteed 2.4 million next year but hes been playing better as of late. If there's a guy who could get the most out of him its Carlisle.

Kings final roster


Holmes/Collins
Bagley/Woodard
DJJ/Jeffries
Haliburton/Simons
Fox/Frank

Why for Kings? We finally pick a direction. Let the team fail miserably this year under Walton, get a top draft pick, and a new coach next year. This clears up a ton of flexibility and lets Monte build the team he actually wants. We get an early look at Frank and Collins and can resign them or let them walk. DJJ and Frank bring two plus defenders to a team last in the league in defense. We go young, fast, and athletic. Fox and co played their best when we had the #1 pace in the league, we try to replicate that.

Thoughts?
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#2 » by daoneandonly » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:42 pm

Value isnt bad, but Bjelly hasnt been playing all that well, so taking on CoJo doesnt make sense, even with the ability to cut him, its still close to 3 mil of dead money to a guy no longer on the team
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#3 » by loserX » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:46 pm

As I said in Chuck's thread, I *don't* think this is the direction the Kings should go...but each of these ideas seems plausible and the value looks close.

I don't know how the Knicks feel about cashing in their cap on Buddy (unfortunately the only big salary they have to send back is Randle, and that's no longer happening), but I get the appeal. He can keep banging in 3's while Barrett moves to SF. Pretty good fit on paper as long as they don't mind the money.

I have always liked Barnes to Portland, so as long as ownership will pay the bills that's a good fit.

The Bjelica trade seems a little bit light, but the Kings don't exactly need more 2nds either. If they want to get out of Joseph's guarantee that much I'm sure Dallas will oblige.

Nice ideas.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#4 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:51 pm

loserX wrote:The Bjelica trade seems a little bit light, but the Kings don't exactly need more 2nds either. If they want to get out of Joseph's guarantee that much I'm sure Dallas will oblige.
Nice ideas.


I agree his ideas are well thought out and the value is reasonable.

I would say specifically on Dallas, that they would prefer to send 2nds then take on the minor cap hit next year as it stands right now. Whereas the Kings aren't going the cap space route either way so finding a way to do this without Joseph I think makes more sense. Obviously that changes if Dallas makes other moves or is prepared to accept just bringing back Richardson/THJ and staying over the cap.

And yeah the Kings don't need 2nds, but....
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#5 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:13 pm

loserX wrote:As I said in Chuck's thread, I *don't* think this is the direction the Kings should go...but each of these ideas seems plausible and the value looks close.

I don't know how the Knicks feel about cashing in their cap on Buddy (unfortunately the only big salary they have to send back is Randle, and that's no longer happening), but I get the appeal. He can keep banging in 3's while Barrett moves to SF. Pretty good fit on paper as long as they don't mind the money.

I have always liked Barnes to Portland, so as long as ownership will pay the bills that's a good fit.

The Bjelica trade seems a little bit light, but the Kings don't exactly need more 2nds either. If they want to get out of Joseph's guarantee that much I'm sure Dallas will oblige.

Nice ideas.


Was a little hesitant on the Buddy trade. Like you said its a bit of a risk for NY to tie up space on him. But the reality is they are winning games defensively, so getting a boost from a guy like Buddy would be nice. The cap sheet is also so clean next year they could still afford to bring in a max guy (although not many available in free agency). Buddy's salary is declining, so if they need to move him in 2 years to bring in a guy, it should only get easier imo. Lastly, I think he can really shine in NY. So id bet he probably increases his value within the first few months hes there.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#6 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
loserX wrote:The Bjelica trade seems a little bit light, but the Kings don't exactly need more 2nds either. If they want to get out of Joseph's guarantee that much I'm sure Dallas will oblige.
Nice ideas.


I agree his ideas are well thought out and the value is reasonable.

I would say specifically on Dallas, that they would prefer to send 2nds then take on the minor cap hit next year as it stands right now. Whereas the Kings aren't going the cap space route either way so finding a way to do this without Joseph I think makes more sense. Obviously that changes if Dallas makes other moves or is prepared to accept just bringing back Richardson/THJ and staying over the cap.

And yeah the Kings don't need 2nds, but....


Ya my preference would be to use Bjelica to move off Joseph's cap. Or pair Bjelica + 2nds for a low tier 1st. As you said the Kings don't really need any 2nds, but Joseph's cap hit next year won't kill us either.

How far off is Bjelica/Robinson/2021 Kings 2nd for Green + Salary filler
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#7 » by daoneandonly » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:19 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
loserX wrote:The Bjelica trade seems a little bit light, but the Kings don't exactly need more 2nds either. If they want to get out of Joseph's guarantee that much I'm sure Dallas will oblige.
Nice ideas.


I agree his ideas are well thought out and the value is reasonable.

I would say specifically on Dallas, that they would prefer to send 2nds then take on the minor cap hit next year as it stands right now. Whereas the Kings aren't going the cap space route either way so finding a way to do this without Joseph I think makes more sense. Obviously that changes if Dallas makes other moves or is prepared to accept just bringing back Richardson/THJ and staying over the cap.

And yeah the Kings don't need 2nds, but....


Ya my preference would be to use Bjelica to move off Joseph's cap. Or pair Bjelica + 2nds for a low tier 1st. As you said the Kings don't really need any 2nds, but Joseph's cap hit next year won't kill us either.

How far off is Bjelica/Robinson/2021 Kings 2nd for Green + Salary filler


I cant imagine Jelly can return a guy just drafted with the 18th pick. He's just not that good
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#8 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:20 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
How far off is Bjelica/Robinson/2021 Kings 2nd for Green + Salary filler


I would say a little light, but close enough the Kings could make it up with a 2nd or two more. The problem is can Dallas afford to take one of their few potential assets/potential cheap rotation guys once Luka gets paid and split his value into pieces? IDK.

Probably its a terrible idea, but I just really believe Bjelica would be good in Dallas so I hesitate to give up on it.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#9 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:22 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
I agree his ideas are well thought out and the value is reasonable.

I would say specifically on Dallas, that they would prefer to send 2nds then take on the minor cap hit next year as it stands right now. Whereas the Kings aren't going the cap space route either way so finding a way to do this without Joseph I think makes more sense. Obviously that changes if Dallas makes other moves or is prepared to accept just bringing back Richardson/THJ and staying over the cap.

And yeah the Kings don't need 2nds, but....


Ya my preference would be to use Bjelica to move off Joseph's cap. Or pair Bjelica + 2nds for a low tier 1st. As you said the Kings don't really need any 2nds, but Joseph's cap hit next year won't kill us either.

How far off is Bjelica/Robinson/2021 Kings 2nd for Green + Salary filler


I cant imagine Jelly can return a guy just drafted with the 18th pick. He's just not that good


Oh I agree. My thought of this is Bjelica is worth an early 2nd, Kings 2021 2nd after this trade should fall around #34-37, and Robinson is probably worth a 2nd and could easily fill in those 15mpg at SF for Dallas. I don't think Bjelica on his own returns Green, but as a collection I asked if the value makes it close.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#10 » by JRoy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:31 pm

No thanks from POR.

Hood is coming off injury and showing signs though his numbers aren’t great and DJJ gives POR an athletic presence we haven’t had in ages.

Plus, do not want HB salary obligations.
Juice is not worth the squeeze.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#11 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:51 pm

JRoy wrote:No thanks from POR.

Hood is coming off injury and showing signs though his numbers aren’t great and DJJ gives POR an athletic presence we haven’t had in ages.

Plus, do not want HB salary obligations.
Juice is not worth the squeeze.


That's fair. Seems to be differing opinions from Portland posters. I've read a lot of them say that DJJ just doesn't work in their system and they are very open to moving him.

IMO if you are Portland with limited ways to upgrade and an aging Lillard, its time to go all in. I wouldn't be worried about salary obligations when my team is already maxed out for the foreseeable future with Lillard/CJ, and personally id want to make a move to improve.

Lillard/CJ
CJ/Trent
Barnes/Hood
Covington/Melo
Nurkic/Kanter/Whiteside

Now if you think the Blazers could do better than Barnes with this package id understand, but not improving because the money doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#12 » by JRoy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:08 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
JRoy wrote:No thanks from POR.

Hood is coming off injury and showing signs though his numbers aren’t great and DJJ gives POR an athletic presence we haven’t had in ages.

Plus, do not want HB salary obligations.
Juice is not worth the squeeze.


That's fair. Seems to be differing opinions from Portland posters. I've read a lot of them say that DJJ just doesn't work in their system and they are very open to moving him.

IMO if you are Portland with limited ways to upgrade and an aging Lillard, its time to go all in. I wouldn't be worried about salary obligations when my team is already maxed out for the foreseeable future with Lillard/CJ, and personally id want to make a move to improve.

Lillard/CJ
CJ/Trent
Barnes/Hood
Covington/Melo
Nurkic/Kanter/Whiteside

Now if you think the Blazers could do better than Barnes with this package id understand, but not improving because the money doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


It can be both
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#13 » by expatbayern » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:50 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
JRoy wrote:No thanks from POR.

Hood is coming off injury and showing signs though his numbers aren’t great and DJJ gives POR an athletic presence we haven’t had in ages.

Plus, do not want HB salary obligations.
Juice is not worth the squeeze.


That's fair. Seems to be differing opinions from Portland posters. I've read a lot of them say that DJJ just doesn't work in their system and they are very open to moving him.

IMO if you are Portland with limited ways to upgrade and an aging Lillard, its time to go all in. I wouldn't be worried about salary obligations when my team is already maxed out for the foreseeable future with Lillard/CJ, and personally id want to make a move to improve.

Lillard/CJ
CJ/Trent
Barnes/Hood
Covington/Melo
Nurkic/Kanter/Whiteside

Now if you think the Blazers could do better than Barnes with this package id understand, but not improving because the money doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Right now PDX are on track to duck just under the lux tax this season and reset the repeater calculation, which lets them match an offer for GTJ and go over next year.

Adding HB (unless they're sending both Jones and Hood and Collins) means going over the tax this season and being a repeater. That plus Barnes' additional 38m going forward means no GTJ, so effectively this deal calls for swapping Hood/Jones + Collins + Simons + Trent for Barnes...
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#14 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:57 pm

expatbayern wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
JRoy wrote:No thanks from POR.

Hood is coming off injury and showing signs though his numbers aren’t great and DJJ gives POR an athletic presence we haven’t had in ages.

Plus, do not want HB salary obligations.
Juice is not worth the squeeze.


That's fair. Seems to be differing opinions from Portland posters. I've read a lot of them say that DJJ just doesn't work in their system and they are very open to moving him.

IMO if you are Portland with limited ways to upgrade and an aging Lillard, its time to go all in. I wouldn't be worried about salary obligations when my team is already maxed out for the foreseeable future with Lillard/CJ, and personally id want to make a move to improve.

Lillard/CJ
CJ/Trent
Barnes/Hood
Covington/Melo
Nurkic/Kanter/Whiteside

Now if you think the Blazers could do better than Barnes with this package id understand, but not improving because the money doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Right now PDX are on track to duck just under the lux tax this season and reset the repeater calculation, which lets them match an offer for GTJ and go over next year.

Adding HB (unless they're sending both Jones and Hood and Collins) means going over the tax this season and being a repeater. That plus Barnes' additional 38m going forward means no GTJ, so effectively this deal calls for swapping Hood/Jones + Collins + Simons + Trent for Barnes...


Thats a fair point, I appreciate the insight.

Id do Hood + DJJ + Collins + Simons for GRIII + Whiteside + Barnes

From what I can tell that actually saved the Blazers 1.5 million. But no idea if that makes any sense for them.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#15 » by kb02 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:20 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:Its official. After a great 8 game streak beating teams like the Raptors, Pelicans, Celtics, Nuggets, and Clippers we proceed to lose 7 straight (likely 8 after tonights matchup with Brooklyn). Fox seems to be playing hurt, Barnes/Holmes/Bagley have all missed a few games, and our league worst coach looks way in over his head. It seems like Vivek is unwilling to fire Walton, and I've lost faith that we can ever be even a .500 ball club with him leading the way. So embrace the tank..

Trade 1: NY & Sac

Sac out | NY in: Buddy Hield, 2021 2nd round pick
Sac in | NY out: Frank, (any other player from the Knicks, Rivers/Burks/Payton/Ignas/Bullock to match salaries)

Why for the Knicks? Simple.. Thibs has turned this teams defense around. Under Thibs they are 1st in Opp PPG, and 3rd in Def Rtg. They are still 23rd in offense and 30th in ppg. Simple enough, they need scoring. Buddy needs a coach like Thibs to keep him in check, and he needs multiple guys who can handle the rock and put him in a position to succeed.

Trade 2: Portland & Sacramento

Sac out| Por In: Barnes, Whiteside
Sac in | Por Out: DJJ or Hood, Collins, Simons, any minimum salary

Why for Portland? They need another big wing. Hood/DJJ haven't worked out for them the way they hoped and there was just a thread on this a day or 2 ago. Insert Barnes. A class act of a player, and a do it all guy. In Portland he can be the 4th or 5th option any given night and have the pressure taken off of him. Whiteside fills in as a familiar face while Nurkic is out.

Trade 3: Dallas and Sac

Sac out | Dallas In: Bjelica, Joseph
Dallas out | Sac in: James Johnson, Boban

Why for Dallas? Maybe Chuck is the only guy left wanting Bjelica, but the fit makes sense. Hes another guy who can stretch the floor for them up front. Joseph is only guaranteed 2.4 million next year but hes been playing better as of late. If there's a guy who could get the most out of him its Carlisle.

Kings final roster


Holmes/Collins
Bagley/Woodard
DJJ/Jeffries
Haliburton/Simons
Fox/Frank

Why for Kings? We finally pick a direction. Let the team fail miserably this year under Walton, get a top draft pick, and a new coach next year. This clears up a ton of flexibility and lets Monte build the team he actually wants. We get an early look at Frank and Collins and can resign them or let them walk. DJJ and Frank bring two plus defenders to a team last in the league in defense. We go young, fast, and athletic. Fox and co played their best when we had the #1 pace in the league, we try to replicate that.

Thoughts?


I'm no fan of Buddy, but that NYK deal is a solid no for the Kings.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#16 » by RipPizzaGuy » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:41 am

kb02 wrote:
I'm no fan of Buddy, but that NYK deal is a solid no for the Kings.


What exactly would your reasoning be for turning this down?

Listen im the biggest Buddy supporter out of anyone I know, but the fact is he will never be successful under Walton. More so, his value will only go down and we need to make way for Haliburton. I would like nothing more than seeing him succeed with us, just don't think thats going to happen.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#17 » by rpa » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:57 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
kb02 wrote:
I'm no fan of Buddy, but that NYK deal is a solid no for the Kings.


What exactly would your reasoning be for turning this down?

Listen im the biggest Buddy supporter out of anyone I know, but the fact is he will never be successful under Walton. More so, his value will only go down and we need to make way for Haliburton. I would like nothing more than seeing him succeed with us, just don't think thats going to happen.


Said it in the other thread: Walton's not long for this job. Buddy played up to (or nearly so) that contract before he got it. Why not hang onto him and see how he does under a (hopefully) competent coach?
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#18 » by FutureKnicksGM » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:27 am

Hard pass for NY. No interest in tying up the cap with his deal at this stage.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#19 » by kb02 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:48 pm

rpa wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
kb02 wrote:
I'm no fan of Buddy, but that NYK deal is a solid no for the Kings.


What exactly would your reasoning be for turning this down?

Listen im the biggest Buddy supporter out of anyone I know, but the fact is he will never be successful under Walton. More so, his value will only go down and we need to make way for Haliburton. I would like nothing more than seeing him succeed with us, just don't think thats going to happen.


Said it in the other thread: Walton's not long for this job. Buddy played up to (or nearly so) that contract before he got it. Why not hang onto him and see how he does under a (hopefully) competent coach?


Buddy is who he is. He's flawed, but in his prime, should be a 6th man, who will give you elite 3 point shooting. His contract declines. Whether Walton is using him correctly is irrelevant. As his contract declines, his vale increases--it's linear. So dumping him for a rental is meh.
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Re: Fixing the Kings - Sellers at the deadline (Dallas, NY, Portland) 

Post#20 » by daoneandonly » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:56 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Ya my preference would be to use Bjelica to move off Joseph's cap. Or pair Bjelica + 2nds for a low tier 1st. As you said the Kings don't really need any 2nds, but Joseph's cap hit next year won't kill us either.

How far off is Bjelica/Robinson/2021 Kings 2nd for Green + Salary filler


I cant imagine Jelly can return a guy just drafted with the 18th pick. He's just not that good


Oh I agree. My thought of this is Bjelica is worth an early 2nd, Kings 2021 2nd after this trade should fall around #34-37, and Robinson is probably worth a 2nd and could easily fill in those 15mpg at SF for Dallas. I don't think Bjelica on his own returns Green, but as a collection I asked if the value makes it close.


Robinson doesnt have much value, if any. 2nds mean nothing to a team like Dallas since they are piss poor at drafting unless its a European in the top 10, so dont see how a trade around Green and Jelly could work.

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