Boston, Sacramento

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Boston, Sacramento 

Post#1 » by JediMasterRevan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 pm

Boston out:
Tristan Thompson, Romeo Langford, Jeff Teague, Semi Ojeleye and a Pick (top 25 protected?)

For
Harrison Barnes, Norman Bjelica, Hassan Whiteside and Robert Woodard II


Boston adds depth at the bigspot, outside shooting and a good compliement to the Jays. They move kemba to the bench to unleash in a 6th man role preserving his body for crunch time.

Smart/Kemba/Pritchard
Brown/Nesmith/Edwards
Barnes/Green/Woodard
Tatum/Bjelica/GrantW
Thies/Whiteside/Timelord


Sacramento sheds alot of salary commitment (18.5 million this year alone) and only carry 13 million into next season from the deal. They add a young defensive player in Romeo who should pair well with Fox and Hali as early as next season. Move should let them tank a little more and add another top talent in the offseason from the draft and have some money to play with.

Also would expect them to deal Hield for a young frontcourt piece and or pick/savings

Fox/Joseph/Guy
Haliburton/Jeffries/Ramsay
Hield/Romeo/Robinson
Bagley/Parker
Holmes/Thompson
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#2 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:54 pm

This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#3 » by JediMasterRevan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:06 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.



That is too good for Sacramento, imo.

You would be shedding a ridiculous amount of salary and have the benefit of adding a lotto pick for it. Your team is going to miss the playoffs again but not by enough to get a truly great pick.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#4 » by Mr Loggins » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:56 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.



That is too good for Sacramento, imo.

You would be shedding a ridiculous amount of salary and have the benefit of adding a lotto pick for it. Your team is going to miss the playoffs again but not by enough to get a truly great pick.



I thought the pick was top-25 protected? (not that boston would be in the lotto anyway...)
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#5 » by cl2117 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:38 pm

Find a third team for TT, drop Langford and also the protections on the pick so it's unprotected. Send seconds back to SAC to make up any difference on value for Bjelica/Whiteside and/or Carsen Edwards.

I don't think Thompson's deal is as bad as some make it out. He's been playing better of late and will be expiring next year. I don't think it costs more than 2nds to dump him next year, so if need be just send him with those assets now and pay in advance. With how weak the '21 FA class is his value could even be rehabbed and flipped so could be a worthy gamble for some teams not trying to make a splash.

Alternatively I think the Barnes for TPE and an unprotected 2021 first works just fine. Send back Teague or Edwards as filler. Thompson has actually been a leader for the Celtics, I'm fine keeping him and just trying to add Barnes via the TPE.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#6 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:47 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.



That is too good for Sacramento, imo.

You would be shedding a ridiculous amount of salary and have the benefit of adding a lotto pick for it. Your team is going to miss the playoffs again but not by enough to get a truly great pick.


We dont care about shedding Salary. I might take Thompson in the deal if there's a way to make that work. But we aren't going to take a loss on Barnes at the cost of shedding salary.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#7 » by BK_2020 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:56 pm

Sacramento let Bogdanovic go for free. What makes you think they just don't care about salary flexibility?
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#8 » by hugepatsfan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.


I think Barnes is probably worth like $15m/year vs what he makes now. So for BOS to just take him outright into the TPE and absorb the full amount of his deal, I wouldn't send out Nesmith who's now in the rotation after being a lottery pick.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#9 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:45 pm

BK_2020 wrote:Sacramento let Bogdanovic go for free. What makes you think they just don't care about salary flexibility?


Of course every team wants flexibility, but moving Barnes for this poopoo platter of nothing isn't worth it. You want Buddy for this package? Sure. Barnes isn't worth moving for this.

EDIT: Also didn't make sense to tie up 40+ million per year on Bogdan/Hield when we had just drafted Haliburton days before Bogdan signed his deal.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#10 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:48 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.


I think Barnes is probably worth like $15m/year vs what he makes now. So for BOS to just take him outright into the TPE and absorb the full amount of his deal, I wouldn't send out Nesmith who's now in the rotation after being a lottery pick.


I have a feeling Barnes is going to be a hot commodity this deadline. Lots of teams looking for ways to upgrade. Not many 6'8 wings who shoot 40% from 3 available.

Curious who you think are the sellers this year? I have Wolves, Rockets, Thunder, Kings, Pistons, Cavs, Wizards.

People can say Barnes is only worth 15 million etc etc.. Okay show me a 15 million dollar per year wing as good as him that's available. It doesn't exist.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#11 » by blind prophet » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:59 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Sacramento let Bogdanovic go for free. What makes you think they just don't care about salary flexibility?


Of course every team wants flexibility, but moving Barnes for this poopoo platter of nothing isn't worth it. You want Buddy for this package? Sure. Barnes isn't worth moving for this.

EDIT: Also didn't make sense to tie up 40+ million per year on Bogdan/Hield when we had just drafted Haliburton days before Bogdan signed his deal.


I don't want to move Barnes in just a salary dump either man. His salary declines.

This post made me think of perception some. With Bogi many people thought we should potentially over pay to dump him for an asset later. Obviously many things to consider.

But for Barnes many people think we should just take poop for him to be done with it.

Just interesting, not saying anyone is right or wrong.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#12 » by cl2117 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:04 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.


I think Barnes is probably worth like $15m/year vs what he makes now. So for BOS to just take him outright into the TPE and absorb the full amount of his deal, I wouldn't send out Nesmith who's now in the rotation after being a lottery pick.


I have a feeling Barnes is going to be a hot commodity this deadline. Lots of teams looking for ways to upgrade. Not many 6'8 wings who shoot 40% from 3 available.

Curious who you think are the sellers this year? I have Wolves, Rockets, Thunder, Kings, Pistons, Cavs, Wizards.

People can say Barnes is only worth 15 million etc etc.. Okay show me a 15 million dollar per year wing as good as him that's available. It doesn't exist.

Who else do you see as suitors and for what? I think Barnes could definitely help a lot of teams, but I haven't seen a ton of packages suggested.

The other teams that stick out to me that he could be great for are Philly and Miami in the East and then back to old stomping grounds with Dallas and GSW in the West. Not sure what the packages would look like. Think they can all match salary with basically expirings, but not sure what assets they'd be offering as well. What would you be wanting back in general or specifically from those teams?
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#13 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:06 pm

blind prophet wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Sacramento let Bogdanovic go for free. What makes you think they just don't care about salary flexibility?


Of course every team wants flexibility, but moving Barnes for this poopoo platter of nothing isn't worth it. You want Buddy for this package? Sure. Barnes isn't worth moving for this.

EDIT: Also didn't make sense to tie up 40+ million per year on Bogdan/Hield when we had just drafted Haliburton days before Bogdan signed his deal.


I don't want to move Barnes in just a salary dump either man. His salary declines.

This post made me think of perception some. With Bogi many people thought we should potentially over pay to dump him for an asset later. Obviously many things to consider.

But for Barnes many people think we should just take poop for him to be done with it.

Just interesting, not saying anyone is right or wrong.


Great point. Didn't even think about that.

To be honest its questionable if the OP's package was even positive value. We are taking on dead salary of Thompson/Teague/Semi for Langford? The same Langford who played 32 games his rookie season and is now out until April? I mean I like the kid and would take a risk on him, but that OP package is neutral at best.

Meanwhile not only are we moving Barnes, but including Woodard/Bjelica who both easily have positive value. And even Whiteside is likely worth a 2nd.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#14 » by becorz » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:07 pm

BK_2020 wrote:Sacramento let Bogdanovic go for free. What makes you think they just don't care about salary flexibility?

There is no reason to believe that Harrison Barnes is going to decrease in value, unless he has a catastrophic injury. He is still going to be the same player this offseason that he is now. But you are also going to have a bunch of teams with cap room and he will have a year less on his contract, which I argue makes him more valuable. Why trade him now for "flexibility" when you can make the decision in the offseason?

Sure, you might trade him now if you get value, but this trade is not value. But I also think that Buddy Hield is more likely to be moved.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#15 » by blind prophet » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:09 pm

cl2117 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
I think Barnes is probably worth like $15m/year vs what he makes now. So for BOS to just take him outright into the TPE and absorb the full amount of his deal, I wouldn't send out Nesmith who's now in the rotation after being a lottery pick.


I have a feeling Barnes is going to be a hot commodity this deadline. Lots of teams looking for ways to upgrade. Not many 6'8 wings who shoot 40% from 3 available.

Curious who you think are the sellers this year? I have Wolves, Rockets, Thunder, Kings, Pistons, Cavs, Wizards.

People can say Barnes is only worth 15 million etc etc.. Okay show me a 15 million dollar per year wing as good as him that's available. It doesn't exist.

Who else do you see as suitors and for what? I think Barnes could definitely help a lot of teams, but I haven't seen a ton of packages suggested.

The other teams that stick out to me that he could be great for are Philly and Miami in the East and then back to old stomping grounds with Dallas and GSW in the West. Not sure what the packages would look like. Think they can all match salary with basically expirings, but not sure what assets they'd be offering as well. What would you be wanting back in general or specifically from those teams?


Salary after this year
$20,284,091
$18,352,273

Here's the thing, I don't think we really need to move him for salary purposes. He's a good guy even if our franchise is a dumpster fire right now. Doesn't cause any trouble. Multi positional.

Unless he gets hurt or just plays badly his value should be more as his contract declines vs right now.

No reason for us to move him without a decent perk. Wouldn't cost much most likely. A protected first and he is probably yours.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#16 » by hugepatsfan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:14 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.


I think Barnes is probably worth like $15m/year vs what he makes now. So for BOS to just take him outright into the TPE and absorb the full amount of his deal, I wouldn't send out Nesmith who's now in the rotation after being a lottery pick.


I have a feeling Barnes is going to be a hot commodity this deadline. Lots of teams looking for ways to upgrade. Not many 6'8 wings who shoot 40% from 3 available.

Curious who you think are the sellers this year? I have Wolves, Rockets, Thunder, Kings, Pistons, Cavs, Wizards.

People can say Barnes is only worth 15 million etc etc.. Okay show me a 15 million dollar per year wing as good as him that's available. It doesn't exist.


I think it's very hard to pay a guy like Barnes as much as he makes for him to be your 4th/5th best player (which is what he is on a contending team) UNLESS you're getting cheap rookie contract production from the guys above him. BOS isn't in that situation with Brown already extended, Kemba on a max, Tatum's extension kicking in next year, and Smart due for one the year after that. I now Barnes deal is declining but it's still

I could definitely see Barnes returning value. But the key variable you're missing is that value comes in many forms. Young players/picks is value, salary relief is also value. I understand that it may not be the form of value you want on your end, but it's still value going out on the other end and you have to factor in the other side of deals too.

So will other teams be willing to give up picks/players for Barnes? I bet so. But teams drawn to trading for Barnes will likely be int he BOS situation of already having better payers under contract which makes a numbers crunch. So in order to justify the acquisition, I'd imagine SAC is looking at taking back some salary.

On the BOS situation... if you guys took back Tristain Thompson's money then yeah I'd be willing to throw some value now. Because that's reducing the financial burden by a sizable chunk, so now I can justify the cost including players/picks going out too. But just straight taking him into the TPE is such financial value that I wouldn't give up more on top of that.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#17 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:15 pm

cl2117 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
I think Barnes is probably worth like $15m/year vs what he makes now. So for BOS to just take him outright into the TPE and absorb the full amount of his deal, I wouldn't send out Nesmith who's now in the rotation after being a lottery pick.


I have a feeling Barnes is going to be a hot commodity this deadline. Lots of teams looking for ways to upgrade. Not many 6'8 wings who shoot 40% from 3 available.

Curious who you think are the sellers this year? I have Wolves, Rockets, Thunder, Kings, Pistons, Cavs, Wizards.

People can say Barnes is only worth 15 million etc etc.. Okay show me a 15 million dollar per year wing as good as him that's available. It doesn't exist.

Who else do you see as suitors and for what? I think Barnes could definitely help a lot of teams, but I haven't seen a ton of packages suggested.

The other teams that stick out to me that he could be great for are Philly and Miami in the East and then back to old stomping grounds with Dallas and GSW in the West. Not sure what the packages would look like. Think they can all match salary with basically expirings, but not sure what assets they'd be offering as well. What would you be wanting back in general or specifically from those teams?


I see Denver, GS, Miami, Philly, Dallas, Boston, Milwaukee, Portland all as potential destinations. Others could jump in the mix (Lakers,

Denver. Id move him for Zeke + Barton

GS - Oubre + 1st

Miami - Exprings + Precious or Nunn (they seem like a likely free agent destination, so unsure they would pay the asking price as they could just conserve space and get Dipo for free)

Philly - Green + 1 of Thybulle, Milton or Maxey

Dallas - Johnson/expirings + Green + Something for Barnes/Bjelica

Boston - Thompson/Nesmith

Milwaukee - Whatever they can muster up for salary + DDV

Portland - Salary + Simons + Collins
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#18 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:48 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
I think Barnes is probably worth like $15m/year vs what he makes now. So for BOS to just take him outright into the TPE and absorb the full amount of his deal, I wouldn't send out Nesmith who's now in the rotation after being a lottery pick.


I have a feeling Barnes is going to be a hot commodity this deadline. Lots of teams looking for ways to upgrade. Not many 6'8 wings who shoot 40% from 3 available.

Curious who you think are the sellers this year? I have Wolves, Rockets, Thunder, Kings, Pistons, Cavs, Wizards.

People can say Barnes is only worth 15 million etc etc.. Okay show me a 15 million dollar per year wing as good as him that's available. It doesn't exist.


I think it's very hard to pay a guy like Barnes as much as he makes for him to be your 4th/5th best player (which is what he is on a contending team) UNLESS you're getting cheap rookie contract production from the guys above him. BOS isn't in that situation with Brown already extended, Kemba on a max, Tatum's extension kicking in next year, and Smart due for one the year after that. I now Barnes deal is declining but it's still

I could definitely see Barnes returning value. But the key variable you're missing is that value comes in many forms. Young players/picks is value, salary relief is also value. I understand that it may not be the form of value you want on your end, but it's still value going out on the other end and you have to factor in the other side of deals too.

So will other teams be willing to give up picks/players for Barnes? I bet so. But teams drawn to trading for Barnes will likely be int he BOS situation of already having better payers under contract which makes a numbers crunch. So in order to justify the acquisition, I'd imagine SAC is looking at taking back some salary.

On the BOS situation... if you guys took back Tristain Thompson's money then yeah I'd be willing to throw some value now. Because that's reducing the financial burden by a sizable chunk, so now I can justify the cost including players/picks going out too. But just straight taking him into the TPE is such financial value that I wouldn't give up more on top of that.


Fair enough. I was responding to the OP. Where just pure salary relief (while taking Thompson) isn't worth our time. A top 25 protected pick has no chance of conveying this year and even when it does (no clarification from OP on how long thats protected) thats an end of the barrel pick.

If financially there was a way to do Thompson/Nesmith for Whiteside/Barnes id do it. Not sure if that works as I am understanding you can't combine TPE + Player? Maybe im wrong there.

Id also have no problem doing Thompson + Nesmith for Barnes + Parker + Whiteside. Barnes into TPE, Thompson/Nesmith for Parker/Whiteside. Again if its possible without Parker thats cool with me, I'm just unaware of how that works exactly.

EDIT: I guess technically Boston taking Barnes into the TPE opens up cap space for Sac to take on Thompson. So then Thompson + Nesmith for Whiteside should be totally legal?
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#19 » by kb02 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:19 am

1. The Kings didn't sign Bogi, because they wanted to have cap space flexibility. They're not actively looking to dump salary. Plus they wanted to open up playing time for Haliburton.

2. Woodard is not a throw in. Kings aren't trading him.

Langford + Thompson + Nesmith + an unprotected first for Barnes, Bjelly, Whiteside, and a Kings second.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#20 » by Fencer reregistered » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:33 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
I have a feeling Barnes is going to be a hot commodity this deadline. Lots of teams looking for ways to upgrade. Not many 6'8 wings who shoot 40% from 3 available.

Curious who you think are the sellers this year? I have Wolves, Rockets, Thunder, Kings, Pistons, Cavs, Wizards.

People can say Barnes is only worth 15 million etc etc.. Okay show me a 15 million dollar per year wing as good as him that's available. It doesn't exist.


I think it's very hard to pay a guy like Barnes as much as he makes for him to be your 4th/5th best player (which is what he is on a contending team) UNLESS you're getting cheap rookie contract production from the guys above him. BOS isn't in that situation with Brown already extended, Kemba on a max, Tatum's extension kicking in next year, and Smart due for one the year after that. I now Barnes deal is declining but it's still

I could definitely see Barnes returning value. But the key variable you're missing is that value comes in many forms. Young players/picks is value, salary relief is also value. I understand that it may not be the form of value you want on your end, but it's still value going out on the other end and you have to factor in the other side of deals too.

So will other teams be willing to give up picks/players for Barnes? I bet so. But teams drawn to trading for Barnes will likely be int he BOS situation of already having better payers under contract which makes a numbers crunch. So in order to justify the acquisition, I'd imagine SAC is looking at taking back some salary.

On the BOS situation... if you guys took back Tristain Thompson's money then yeah I'd be willing to throw some value now. Because that's reducing the financial burden by a sizable chunk, so now I can justify the cost including players/picks going out too. But just straight taking him into the TPE is such financial value that I wouldn't give up more on top of that.


Fair enough. I was responding to the OP. Where just pure salary relief (while taking Thompson) isn't worth our time. A top 25 protected pick has no chance of conveying this year and even when it does (no clarification from OP on how long thats protected) thats an end of the barrel pick.

If financially there was a way to do Thompson/Nesmith for Whiteside/Barnes id do it. Not sure if that works as I am understanding you can't combine TPE + Player? Maybe im wrong there.

Id also have no problem doing Thompson + Nesmith for Barnes + Parker + Whiteside. Barnes into TPE, Thompson/Nesmith for Parker/Whiteside. Again if its possible without Parker thats cool with me, I'm just unaware of how that works exactly.

EDIT: I guess technically Boston taking Barnes into the TPE opens up cap space for Sac to take on Thompson. So then Thompson + Nesmith for Whiteside should be totally legal?


Those deals are legal, but why is Barnes worth a good rookie prospect like Nesmith or Thybulle?

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